Jen Armistead | From Scientist to Yoga Teacher: Ashtanga, Rocket & Dharma Yoga Journey

Jen Armistead is an accomplished scientist turned yoga teacher and studio owner. With a Ph.D. in molecular microbiology and immunology and a background in public health, Jen dedicated two decades to researching and implementing strategies to combat malaria, particularly among vulnerable populations in Africa. She now co-owns Yoga Commons, a yoga studio in Fairfax, Virginia, where she shares her passion for Ashtanga, Rocket, and Dharma Yoga practices, drawing inspiration from notable teachers like Dharma Mittra and David Kyle.

Visit Jen here: https://www.yoga-commons.com/ and on IG here: https://www.instagram.com/yogaendeavour/?hl=en

Key Takeaways:

• Jen Armistead's journey exemplifies a unique transition from scientific research in malaria to becoming a dedicated yoga teacher and studio owner.
• Her experience in Africa exposed her to the realities of global health challenges and the importance of implementing effective disease-fighting strategies.
• Jen finds inspiration in yoga legends like Dharma Mittra, striving to integrate deep spiritual teachings within her yoga community.
• She navigates the challenges of maintaining an authentic yoga studio while facing commercial pressures, emphasizing the importance of flexibility and community.
• Jen's story highlights the significance of adaptive career pivots and the potential for personal growth during unexpected life changes.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Jen Armistead's Journey from Scientist to Yoga Teacher
• 6:09 Combating Malaria in Africa: A Scientist's Journey
• 10:44 From Science to Yoga: Jen Armistead's Unexpected Journey
• 17:22 Job Loss, Reinvention, and Martial Law in Washington D.C
• 22:29 Balancing Tradition and Accessibility in Ashtanga and Rocket Yoga
• 30:11 Partnership Dynamics and Challenges in Running a Yoga Studio
• 35:21 Balancing Science, Spirituality, and Teaching Yoga
• 45:09 Yoga, Parenthood, and Building a Thriving Dharma Community
• 50:20 Jen Armistead's Vision for Yoga Retreats and Global Connections

Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage, bodywork and beyond. Follow us at @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Hello, welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast today, I'm excited to share a conversation with Jen Armistead, yoga teacher, humanitarian and co founder of yoga Commons in Fairfax, Virginia. Jen brings a unique blend of scientific curiosity, deep spiritual practice and personal healing. Into her teaching with over 1200 hours of training in Dharma, rocket yoga, Ashtanga Yoga, and as the founder of yoga endeavor, she offers a holistic approach that emphasizes breath work, philosophy and mindful living. In this episode, we dive deep into Jen's journey into yoga and how she bridges discipline with exploration and the role of autonomy and self discovery and practice. And we also explore how she integrates her humanitarian and scientific background into her teaching and her vision for creating supportive community spaces through her yoga studio, Yoga Commons. So whether you're a beginner looking for guidance or your well seasoned practitioner seeking inspiration, I think Jen's insights are going to help you to see yoga as both very grounding discipline and an empowering experiment. I would love for you to check her out on two of her websites. She has her personal one, which is yogaendeavor.com and she has her website for her yoga studio, yogacommons.com, the links are in the description. Click Check her out. And also father on IG. I'm going to put the links for both her IG handles@yogaendeavor and@yogaCommonsFairfax, so you can send her some love. Thank you so much for joining and let's go ahead and jump on in. I'm honored to have this opportunity to meet and speak with Jen Armistead, did I get that right? Armistead? Armistead, oh, I messed it up. Cool. Now I have it right. Jen Armistead, thank you for correcting me, Jen, I appreciate that. I'm so happy to have you here. Can you tell me how your day has progressed so far?

Unknown: 3:08

You know, today is all right. Been working at home, and now I'm in my studio, my yoga studio, here in Fairfax, just outside DC. So yeah, day is good. It's sun shining. It's warm outside.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:21

Amazing. Are you originally from Fairfax?

Unknown: 3:25

No, I'm not. I was a bit of a nomad growing up, lived all over the place, and ended up here as a teenager, and then finished, you know, high school, and went on and traveled the world and ended up back here about 10 years ago.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:42

Cool, I understand you are a scientist when? Well, first of all, can you tell me what type of scientist you are?

Unknown: 3:52

Yeah, sure. So I'm a lot of things. I'll say that I've spent the last 20 years of my life really focused on research and then sort of implementation to keep people from getting sick and dying from malaria, so mainly pregnant women and little kids in Africa. So that's what I've done for the last 20 years of my

Todd McLaughlin: 4:16

life. Wow, you have a PhD in What? What?

Unknown: 4:20

Happened? Yeah, my PhD is in molecular Microbiology and Immunology, and I have a degree in public health as well.

Todd McLaughlin: 4:26

Wow. And did you start to study that? Like, right out of high school? You did four years of education then continued Master's and PhD, or did you do four and then go out and do other things and then come back

Unknown: 4:40

so much school, yeah, so I had little breaks here and there throughout, but yeah, I think I am one of those rare people who kind of knew where they were headed from a pretty young age. And so it all sort of happened pretty organically. Right?

Todd McLaughlin: 5:00

Yeah, amazing. I mean, I'm curious, how, at what point did you start to fall in love with or become interested in yoga?

Unknown: 5:09

Oh, wow, that's, that's a packed question. Yeah. So I think, like maybe a lot of people, my yoga journey is definitely not a linear path, for sure. And I think, you know, when I was young, like in my 20s, it was, oh, it's the class at the gym. It's the, you know, let's just go fit this, this, you know, workout in. And it wasn't until, really my 30s, later in my 30s, where I think I fully embraced it as not just like something I did, but was sort of how I live my life, and ended up becoming a teacher along the way.

Todd McLaughlin: 5:45

That's so cool. I noticed that you have studied with Dharma Mitra, that you practice Ashtanga Yoga, and consider David Kyle one of your teachers. He's awesome. I really like David. And so that you've had a blend of Dharma yoga, Ashtanga Yoga. And then I also noticed that you studied and practiced rocket yoga. Yeah, can you tell me a little bit about the timeline of those three separate traditions which grabbed you first, and how did you evolve in this direction?

Unknown: 6:14

Sure, I think it started with Ashtanga, you know, like type a people. I love the structure of it. I love that you can show up and you know what you're going to get, more or less, you know the framework, right? You don't know how any given practice is going to go. But it started with Ashtanga, and then eventually moved into rocket and then when I met Sri Dharma, it was all over. I was like, This is my teacher. And while I still really value and appreciate both Ashtanga and rocket, we teach them both. Here at the studio, I practice both Dharma yoga is really where my heart is.

Todd McLaughlin: 6:59

Very cool. Can you explain why you think that is?

Unknown: 7:04

Well, I think when you get down to it, yoga is about the way we choose to show up in the world and how we want to interact with other people. And Sri Dharma, there's nothing else like it. He has such a compassion and a patience and just a desire to serve and help people that you can't help but want to emulate that, to have that kind of presence. And you really feel it when you're around him, and you talk to him, and you see the way he interacts with people. And so it was less about this is the physical practice. It was more about like I want that. How do I get one to be 86 year old and still be able to move that way, but also not be a hardened, cynical person living in this world and still have so much capacity for love and, yeah, so that's really what did it for me.

Todd McLaughlin: 8:06

Great point. Jen, that's really cool. Can you so were you living in Virginia when you traveled to New York to take your first class with dharma? Yeah. So how long of a TR, if we were to train, bus or ride car. How far are we talking?

Unknown: 8:23

That's not too bad. I mean, if everything's operating according to plan, you know, it's about three and a half hour train ride. So it's really not bad.

Todd McLaughlin: 8:31

So would you go up for weekends? Or how are you able to manage a professional life as a scientist? And I guess let me back up a little bit. What type of job did you have as a scientist? You mentioned to the capacity of helping people in Africa over deal work with malaria. But what did that look like on your professional level? On the professional

Unknown: 8:53

level? Yeah, sure. So I spent, you know, the better part of my career in research, right? So not just in a lab, but, you know, out in the world, and trying to come up with new ways to fight this disease. But I ultimately transitioned to working more in like implementing these kind of programs, and worked for the US Agency for International Development. So USAID was where I worked for many years, and so that is more boots on the ground and trying to help some of the, like most remote, rural, vulnerable populations. So it was using kind of the scientific expertise that I had to figure out the best way to really support these communities.

Todd McLaughlin: 9:36

Wow. So were you traveling to Africa and looking at implementing solutions in the real time scenario over there,

Unknown: 9:45

yep, and then managing the programs, and, you know, working with the governments to understand their needs and trying to fill the gaps that they couldn't support on their own. So, yeah, lots of travel in that job.

Todd McLaughlin: 9:57

That's incredible. I had a chance to travel to Africa. Kind of traveled. I backpack from Zimbabwe up through Mozambique and Malawi. And when I got to Malawi, there's a place called, is it Lake Malawi? It's near Mount malanji. And they, they were like, well, there's so much malaria there that either you have to get on the malaria medicine. And I remember taking that, and everyone had told me, that'll affect your dreams and and I did have some of those dreams where I was being chased by something, and I could not wake up, and it was, it was really kind of crazy. I thought, I'll be fine, but it was a really heavy experience, so I opted for not going to that particularly heavily plagued malaria area because I was having a bad reaction to the to the medicine. Can you tell me a little bit about your experience with traveling to some of those areas, maybe having a little bit apprehension about you getting the disease yourself and what your experience was, and trying to manage that?

Unknown: 10:52

Yeah, that's a that's a valid point. I will say that the sort of the the preventative treatment that travelers can take has changed, and it's no longer that one,

Todd McLaughlin: 11:04

so they're gonna recommend that drug anymore. What was that? Was it Chloroquine?

Unknown: 11:09

Yeah, mefloquine was probably what they had you taking. So there's a there's a different drug. So it all depends on where you are and like, what is the most effective drug? But yeah, so I will say it depended on where I was and what I was doing, and, you know, whether I had to take those medications. But yeah, if I was out really far out, and where that was the case, then yes, I took my preventative medicine. But in a lot of the capital cities, you don't have to worry about it. So, yeah, it just depended.

Todd McLaughlin: 11:38

What a huge problem, right? I mean, obviously here, if we grew up in the United States, we probably don't really think about malaria. We read stats. We hear about it. Can you tell us a little bit about what you learned and how serious of a problem it is, and what was some of your insights are?

Unknown: 11:54

Yeah, well, I mean, first thing, it used to be here. It used to be all over the US. In fact, that's why we have the CDC. So the CDC was actually created to get rid of it here in the United States, and it can still happen here. And it has like, I think last year, there were a few cases down in Florida where you are, and also up this way, I think in Maryland, maybe Texas too. So it's transmitted by a mosquito, for people who don't know, and, yeah, I mean, it's, it's a hugely devastating disease, like I said, particularly to little kids and to pregnant women. And it's a disease of poverty, right? So if you don't live in a house that has, you know, good screening and good steals and a door, you've got sort of a environment around you that's not kept up, and you have lots of standing water and things like that that accumulate. You know, you're gonna have mosquitoes, right? So it's a disease of poverty, and it unfortunately, just keeps people in that pattern. And, you know, I don't have the numbers in front of me today, but, you know, it's, it's a lot of people, you know, millions, that are at risk. And, you know, probably at this point, hundreds of 1000s that die every year. Wow.

Todd McLaughlin: 13:07

Yeah, it's, I remember at one point someone asking for money, can I have $5 please? I have a family member who's dying of malaria, and we need medicine. And can you give, you know, can you give me $5 and how can you say no, and, and it's such a heavy thing. Well, did you utilize your yoga practice to kind of manage the stress of dealing with some of this stuff?

Unknown: 13:29

Sure, yeah. I mean, I would say, I mean, I Yeah. I mean, I'm that person that has a yoga mat everywhere, you know, I'd bring my little folded up travel mat everywhere I go and find a place to practice, even in these, you know, sort of super remote areas, and, you know, people are always really curious about it. And it was always a fun way to introduce people to yoga, whether it's like people I'm there working with, or it's, you know, kids in the community, because, you know, like they, a lot of them have no idea what it is. They've never seen it before. So it was a fun way, for sure, to connect with people, because it's something new to them that I get to share. But also, yeah, the grounding benefits of the practice tremendous. And even if it was a situation where I'm not doing, you know, yoga, Asana, the breath work and meditation, for sure, that's like a daily that's a daily practice. Yeah?

Todd McLaughlin: 14:22

Amazing. Can you I noticed that you have opened up a yoga studio in Fairfax called Yoga Commons, and it looks like you've been open for two, a little over two years. Can you tell me a little bit about what inspired you to open up a yoga studio?

Unknown: 14:38

Yeah, so I joke that I'm an accidental entrepreneur, because I never had any inclination to open a yoga studio. But sometimes the universe just presents these opportunities, and you can't say no, so I have so my business partner that I have the studio with Michelle, so she and I have taught in this area for. Many years at some of the same studios, we have some of the same students, and we both started teaching independently at sort of a local gym that let us rent out some space because we were struggling to be able to teach what we wanted to teach in the way that we wanted to teach it. And for me, that was Dharma yoga. It was really a hard sell at studios in the area to put something like that on the schedule. You know, it's not hot yoga, it's not power yoga, it's not go, go, go. It's it was hard. So I started doing that. And, you know, we started building up some some people coming and practicing with us there. And we ultimately wanted to grow, and so we needed to find a different space, because that gym couldn't accommodate us. And we just stumbled across a place that was for lease. It was shockingly inexpensive, required, like, very minimal work. And so we just said, Let's do it.

Todd McLaughlin: 15:59

Amazing, very good, yeah. And you're, I mean, the two year mark, when we're starting businesses, everyone says, All right, if you make it three, the percentages are pretty low. If you make it three, if you make it to five, the percentages even go lower. Can you give me a synopsis of what you're feeling and thinking being at the point you are? Do you feel optimistic for the success of it? Have you had any big challenges? What do you what are you noticing?

Unknown: 16:27

Yeah, I mean, I think I'm, I'm pretty happy with what we've created. And we went into this, you know, fortunately, we were able to sign a one year lease, which is like unheard of in this area, and we said, this is the vision we have for the community we want to build. We're going to do it, and if it doesn't work, like that's okay, we're not going to we don't want to create something that we don't fully believe in. And so that really looked to us like deeply rooted in Ashtanga and in Dharma yoga. And so that's what we ran with. And, you know, I think we have a Mysore program, so we teach sort of traditional Mysore style, Ashtanga Yoga in the mornings. We have group classes throughout. We have Dharma yoga, and we have Raha yoga as well, right? But I think in the beginning there was like one Mysore student, you know, it's like it takes time, right? It takes a lot of time, and just kind of having the faith that the people who need these practices will find them, because we're a no frills, other than the beautiful plants you see behind us and a solitary om that hangs on the wall above the door, there is like nothing. There's no mirrors, there's no artwork. It is. The Yoga is what it is.

Todd McLaughlin: 17:44

Yeah, very cool. Congratulations. Because I understand how challenging it can be, but it can feel so good to kind of stick to your guns, a little bit stick to your dream and your aspiration. What sort of feedback are you getting back from the community in relation to your your both of you having this sort of passion to hold it the way you are. Are you getting good feedback, and are people supporting?

Unknown: 18:11

Yeah, for sure, we have a really great sort of core community that are here. You know, most days of the week, they're here to practice and you know, we are intentional in creating opportunities for this community to expand, you know, beyond just asana practice, right? And so we we try to have those opportunities for sort of learning more about yoga philosophy, little more subtle practices, the pranayama, the meditation, even introducing people to things like plant based eating, and, you know, having opportunities for them to explore, kind of these other aspects of living, like a yogic lifestyle, where we can, and that's nice, because you are bringing together people that are like minded, that are curious, that are interested In spirituality, they're interested in growth, and so I think those people find us, and, you know, I've seen some really beautiful little friendships kind of emerge and flourish, which has been great, nice.

Todd McLaughlin: 19:14

I'm really curious, because I know that I personally consume information, and I consume news information, and I often wonder, what's the truth here? And then, so when I hear stories from people, one on one, like people that are actually experiencing something, I feel like I can trust that source of information a little easier than I can something that's coming through a large network. Can you, before we started the podcast, you made mention that your transition from the science community to being a yoga studio owner was in relation to the doge cuts. Can you tell me a little bit about what your feelings were and what it's like from your side of the fence, from from your experience? And what that whole process is like, to lose your job under those under those pretenses,

Unknown: 20:07

yeah, so, so, so I, you know, we started the studio before that happened, so I was effectively working close to two full time jobs for for what, about a year and a half or so. And, yeah, I mean, in January of this year, I, you know, anybody who was paying attention to the news will know that, you know my where I was working, USAID was dismantled, and so 1000s of people, just alone in that agency lost their jobs. And yeah, I mean, it's, I'm very fortunate. First, I will say that I have this whole other life, this whole other passion and and I'm grateful that I have the opportunity to lean into that further. So I think first, I want to say that I've, I've kind of looked at this as like, Okay, this is your next step in continuing to serve your community in this way. So I've kind of approached the whole thing with that mentality as like, maybe this is a gift which has helped to make it less awful, because it is awful, and not just because of all the people that have lost their livelihoods. I mean me, personally, right, lost my livelihood, but all the beneficiaries of all the programs,

Todd McLaughlin: 21:25

yeah, yes, you know, yes, that we're counting on you. Yeah. So what type of outfall Have you noticed with the folks that didn't have something to fall back on? Are, do you stay in communication with some of the caught your colleagues? What? What do you what have you witnessed from this sort of change?

Unknown: 21:44

Yeah, it's pretty devastating. I mean, I stay in touch with a lot of my colleagues, and you just hear, I mean, living in the Washington, DC area, it's, it's everywhere, right? This is the heart of government, and it's tough out there, like they people aren't finding jobs, and then the jobs they do find because there's so much demand. You know, the pay is not what it used to be, either, and so, you know, people are feeling very disheartened as they as they work towards it. But I've seen some beautiful examples of people that have embraced their hobbies or things that they liked and are turning into a business. I know people who are now, like, full time doing and selling pottery, people who are working as travel agents. So there's been some, you know, people have embraced this as an opportunity to reinvent themselves, and that's been really cool. But the majority, I think, are really struggling.

Todd McLaughlin: 22:37

Is it? Is it a bitter vibe around where you live. I'm just curious. Like, I

Unknown: 22:43

All right, yeah, you know, I mean, it's a big city, right? And so yes, it's you have, you have tourists, you have the people who live here who have nothing to do with the government, and you have the government. So it really just depends on who you talk to. And you know, there's folks on both sides of the political fence here that live in this area. And I, you know, I don't think you see as much divisive sort of conversations and actions happening. Certainly, there's lots of protests and things happening in DC at the moment, given kind of what's happening there with sort of martial law being implemented, which has been really wild.

Todd McLaughlin: 23:25

What did you notice with that? I'm curious. I have not been to DC, yeah, that's forever, yeah.

Unknown: 23:32

I mean, in response to perceived, you know, crime and danger in the city, there's been sort of a deployment of, you know, various different federal agencies, military police, National Guard, etc, and they're all over, you know, I think I was in New York practicing with sridharma A few weeks ago, and I took the train, and I came back, got off the train in Union Station. It was just flooded with military police, like armed military police, and I was like, What is going on? And then read the news and realized, like, what was happening. And, you know, it's all over, it's all over the city, and

Todd McLaughlin: 24:13

it's, does it make you feel safer, or does it make you feel weirder?

Unknown: 24:19

No, it makes me feel really weird, and it doesn't make me feel safer. I you know, I have a lot of friends who are, you know, American citizens, but originally from somewhere else, and they definitely don't feel safe. And I know a lot who are just not even going into DC proper, which is kind of where they are. They're staying out in the suburbs because they just don't even, they don't even want to deal with it. Yeah, so it's, it's a weird time to be alive

Todd McLaughlin: 24:48

in this city. Yeah. Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate you sharing all that. Are you? You know there's on in the world of Ashtanga and rocket and K. Someone doesn't know who Larry Schultz is and rocket yoga. Can you give a little bit of the storyline that you understand that's how Ashtanga and rocket have connection, and how they've been gone off on their own tracks.

Unknown: 25:14

Yeah, sure. I mean, so so obviously Ashtanga is, you know, a tradition through the Joyce family. And Larry Schultz was a student of Pattabhi Jois. And, you know, I think he had a nickname of like the bad man of Ashtanga, because he questioned some of the dogma around the practice, particularly, you know, sort of having to wait to be given a pose, even if he knew he could do it so things like that. And, you know, he opened a studio in San Francisco. And you know, I think he always called himself an Ashtanga, even though he ended up creating the rocket. But he was trying to make it more approachable and more accessible. Because Ashtanga is a very demanding, rigorous practice, and he wanted to make it more accessible. And I think he was starting to play with changing up the sequence a bit. And it wasn't until he became the teacher for the Grateful Dead and went on tour with them to be their yoga teacher that kind of working so closely with them, and being able to get feedback, like immediate feedback on the practice, kind of it merged into what we call the rocket now, which changes up the primary and intermediate series of Ashtanga, drops out some of the poses that are not going to be accessible for probably 90% of the population. And it it kind of gets rid of the hierarchy. There's no more gatekeeping. It is, you know, it's not sort of this. You learn a pose at a time. You can do the whole sequence. There's some advanced postures from the later series that are brought in. But really, the choices are put in the hands of the practitioner. Right? You choose whether or not you think you are ready for handstand or leg behind the head, right?

Todd McLaughlin: 27:05

Yes, well said. Jen, I'm curious. I love the fact that you are continuing to maintain a Mysore style Ashtanga routine in the morning for folks, but I would love to hear how you are structuring it in relation to the rigidity of the Ashtanga sequences and the fluidity or experimentation of the rocket. Are you allowing people to come into Mysore and skip a few poses and do a few handstands here and there? Or are you trying to keep your Are you trying to keep your your Mysore room very like, let's just stick to learning the poses in this order. I'd love to hear your feedback.

Unknown: 27:47

Yeah, I think it's one of the reasons why we have both on the schedule. We have Ashtanga because you need to know the rules before you can break them.

Todd McLaughlin: 27:54

And great. Well, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 27:56

And the Ashtanga is to learn, to learn the tradition. So I will say that. So Michelle is the primary teacher. She runs our Mysore program, and I do think we're more progressive in that, you know, we want everybody to find a pose that works for their body, that works for them. We don't want them to be stuck in marichyasana D for the rest of their lives. There's so much more to gain moving out of primary series. Nobody should be stuck in primary series forever. So I think we are a bit more progressive in that sense. But yeah, it's pretty traditional.

Todd McLaughlin: 28:35

Yeah, that's cool. I think you're right. I mean, there is a fine balance, isn't there? Like you said, in terms of learning the rules, if you never get a chance to learn the rules, there's such a learning experience with that. But that's cool that you guys are keeping it flexible, and now you made mention, which is a funny irony, you're keeping yoga flexible. Are you when you said poses that 90% of the population probably won't have accessibility to what were the first three poses that come to mind in first and second series that if you could drop you would say, Yeah, I'd let that go.

Unknown: 29:10

Marichyasana D, even marichyasana B, the half lotus. There are people who are never gonna be able to do that without pain, without major discomfort, right? Like, there's a lot that goes into being able to do a pose, and part of it is just what is just, what is your actual anatomy? How does your femur sit in your pelvis, right? So that one Supta chromasana,

Todd McLaughlin: 29:31

for those listening that don't know what it is, legs behind the head, forward, folded, arms wrapped behind the back.

Unknown: 29:37

Yeah, yeah. It's a beast, right? And I would say, you know, early in intermediate series, kapitasana, right? Most people, yeah, they're gonna still, they're gonna stay there forever. They don't have to worry about the leg behind the head that it's like they're not gonna get out of the back bends.

Todd McLaughlin: 29:52

It's so true. I had somebody this morning after she got to kapitas, and she goes, Oh, I feel like I can relax now. You.

Unknown: 30:00

Know. I mean, I'm one of those fortunate people, like I'm I'm naturally fairly back bendy. So, like captions, not a problem for me, but all the leg behind the heads postures, forget it. I mean, people are generally one of the other right? I feel like you're either more predisposed to back bends or to sort of that, those external rotation hip, externally rotated hip postures. And that is not my Yes, yes.

Todd McLaughlin: 30:28

Great point. I love I'd also want to ask you like, I love that you so I had, I had a chance to interview Dharma Mitra, and one of my questions for him was about the challenge of like you and I getting a chance to practice with him, or with some in a situation where we get this really deep connection, or feeling of like, Wow, there's so much to this yoga, and I really want to share all these deep layers with folks. But then there's the business side of it, and the hot yoga pump it out weights and sculpt and and then all of the corporate aspect, which is, you know, contending force to deal with as a mom and pop. So I'm, I'm I'm curious. I guess my question for him was, how do we balance wanting to be passionate, share the passionate side that isn't really popular. I'm curious, if I ask you the same question, how are you balancing finding a way to share what maybe isn't the most popular side of yoga and still stay competitively edged?

Unknown: 31:41

That's a great question. So I think a big part of it is knowing how to read the room and who's in front of you, and you know, you can't give them the whole thing at once, right? It's, it's breadcrumbs, and being able to understand when, okay, they're receptive. And it's an energy, and you can feel it as a teacher when you're in a room. You're in a room, and even if just one person in that room, I get that sense from I'll go a little bit deeper, right? So my favorite thing to teach is pranayama, meditation, and, you know, I try to put a little bit of it in all my classes, and I have a whole class where that's all I teach, and it's my favorite, because the people who are there want to do that deeper work. But yeah, I think as long as there's one soul in that room that I feel connected with, I'll do it right. And you put a little bit more out there, but you just, unless you're someone like sridharma, you can't just put it all on the table right away. You have to give them little bits to work with. And when they start to understand those little bits, and they go away and they start, you know, bringing that into their life, they come back and they want more. So it's, yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 32:55

very cool. Yeah. I am curious, as you guys are like so you you are running your studio with a partner, a friend. What would be your response to me, saying, Would you do it by yourself?

Unknown: 33:12

Oh, hell no. Oh, my gosh no. I don't know how anybody does this by themselves. I am does

Todd McLaughlin: 33:18

anybody do it by themselves? Maybe there is, I don't know, yeah, you've got, you have, if there's a lead role, like, I guess, if we were to look at Dharma and say, well, he's doing it by himself. But then if you go, no, he's actually has a lot of people helping so, so, but um, do you feel like you share a 5050, power? Share with your your friend. Yeah, pretty evenly. You guys are pretty even on the end,

Unknown: 33:48

yeah. I mean, I really couldn't ask for, like, a better partner and amazing, you know, it all just kind of fell like the responsibilities fell organically, naturally, just like, This is what I'm stronger in taking over, and this is what she's stronger in managing. And it's just kind of fallen out that way. But, yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 34:08

it's, this is a little bit of a harder question, and I hope I'm not being weird here, but I had somebody who so I'm working with my wife, and people always say, well, that's a challenge I would never take on. Or they'll say, oh, that sounds amazing. I'd love to do it, like working with your spouse, challenging, but also I would never think about doing this without her, right? Like I couldn't imagine trying to run a studio without without her being there as my 5050, partner, someone I once said to me, Well, if you're gonna do that with someone who's your friend, come up with an agreement, in case something were to happen, were you almost like a prenup? Have you? Have you both? How To what level do you guys operate? I'm curious, and I hope that's not too personal. Yeah, thank you.

Unknown: 34:54

Yeah. I think in this day and age like you, you have to take those precautions. You know where? We're fortunate in that we have a long time student, both of us, who happens to be a business attorney. And he basically gets, you know, free lifetime yoga with us for his legal services, which is phenomenal for us. Wow. And he's like a little guardian angel, honestly. And he, you know, where we were, two sort of fledgling business owners. We have no idea what we're doing. And you know, he has guided us on this path the whole way, like, make sure you have this and make sure you have that. And one of those things was sort of this agreement, right about, how does this work if one of us decides we don't want to do it anymore, right? Yeah. And so he's always looking out for us, so we're really fortunate.

Todd McLaughlin: 35:43

That's so cool. Yeah, that's so interesting, because I have friends who have tried it, did not have that in place, had a tricky situation. So congratulations on having someone like you said that's that's helping you, and you can afford it, type of thing. And giving that sort of advice, I think it's important. Do you feel like, now that you've had that, that it's actually really important for you, for for for us, to succeed, oh,

Unknown: 36:09

100% because then you don't even have to think about it, and it sets expectations before you do any and I honestly think before you spend any money on anything, get that in place, like 100% because, like you, I have seen studios fall good studios because the owners didn't have an agreement in place.

Todd McLaughlin: 36:30

Yeah, yeah. Amazing. What is one of the if you could, if you could Nix one of your duties. So one of the now that, well, you haven't, you have all these new duties your studio owner, if you could get rid of one of them, because you're just like, it's my least favorite thing. What would it be?

Unknown: 36:48

Social media? And you know, it kind of just fell to me. And so Michelle does some of it, but 90% of it is me, and I don't love it, you know, but it's a necessary thing, like this is where people live, and if you're not there for them to see, you know what? What's available? Like, what? How else are you gonna like? People aren't out there. You know, walking around as much as they used to. There's no yellow pages, right? Like they're gonna find you on social media or they're gonna find you on Google, so you gotta have a presence, right?

Todd McLaughlin: 37:27

Yeah, great point. I agree with you. What's the one thing that is your favorite?

Unknown: 37:33

Oh, well, it's just the community. It's the people. It's like, you know, I never, you know, we had a student base, but I never really realized when I went into this how much it was going to grow and all these people that I were going to become sort of part of my almost daily life at this point. And so that's really the best, is just connecting with people, seeing them flourish, have their own growth and realizations as they, you know, start this path or go further along.

Todd McLaughlin: 38:05

It nice. Have you embarked on leading teacher training?

Unknown: 38:52

Yeah, so we're working on that now, so we will do our first 200 hour teacher training next year.

Todd McLaughlin: 38:58

Cool. Nice. Are you? Are you the kind of person that can organize curriculum easily, or is that a bit of a challenge?

Unknown: 39:05

Yeah, I think that comes somewhat naturally to me. I mean, in my younger years in my career, I taught, you know, at the college level, and so part of that involves some organization around courses, you know, separate from the studio. I have my own business yoga endeavor where I've done some online courses as well. So yeah, I feel like I have, I have a knack for it

Todd McLaughlin: 39:30

cool. As a scientist, which sometimes people want to clump scientists into people that don't believe in God, and as a yogi, who has a passion for the spiritual aspects that dharma teaches. Where do you land, and how do you balance the two?

Unknown: 39:51

Yeah, that's an awesome question. And I think you know what people forget about science is that it's all still theory. It's all still hypotheses, right? And we do our best to show that it's most likely correct, like, we can never be 100% right about any hypothesis that we're testing. Like, that's just the way that it is. Right. There's certain things that we've accepted as more or less fact at this point, right? But for me, one it is really a depressing way to live your life, to think that we're born, we die and we go back into the earth, and that's the end of it. For me, I just don't accept that. I don't want to believe that. I think I've always wanted there to be something more, but also just the idea of the creation of everything. That's here, whichever way you want to believe in. It is magical. Whether you're thinking about it as a god of some kind, creating all of this, that's pretty amazing. And whether it is happening naturally, that they're like particles came together, we had a big bang that that could even happen without any divine intervention, that's also pretty magical. I just, for me, there's no way like there has to be and, yeah, so I think I've mostly always felt, even in my, you know, younger youthful days, where I definitely was sort of anti religion and sort of the traditional concept of of God. I kind of rejected those pretty early on in my life, but always felt that there was something so I've kind of always been seeking, kind of an explanation for it all, and yoga has given that to me,

Todd McLaughlin: 41:42

great answer, how what was your first response the first time you went to one of Dharma psychic development classes.

Unknown: 41:50

Psychic development is one of my favorite practices. I you know, dharma says all the time that you know, he'll jokingly say it, ah, you all come and I say the same thing every time, but then he'll also say, you know, but it you know, it registers. You receive it when you're ready. And it's true, because every time I go and practice with Dharma, I know he's saying, like, the exact same thing, but it hits different sometimes, and you get a little bit of a deeper understanding of the knowledge, and I feel very much that way about psychic development. And, you know, for people who don't know what it is, you know, it's a unique practice in the Dharma yoga lineage, it's really only gone through a few people, right? So Dharma learned it from his guru, Yogi Gupta, and Yogi Gupta learned it from his guru, who, we don't really even know who that is, but we know it was somebody, you know, who was really living the yogic life out kind of in the middle of nowhere, right? So it's pretty sacred thing, and it's, you know, set series of practices that are really, you know, helping you purify, like, get your energy straight so that you can actually see what's what. Like, get clear on, you know, who you are, what you're doing. How do you grow spiritually, right? And I think the first couple times I did that practice, I was just like, What I don't understand, like, it's not registering. And, you know, eventually when I just kind of surrendered to it, and it was just like, Okay, I'm doing the thing, because I'm here, I want to do the thing, and it eventually clicks, right? And I think that's that's in particular, really powerful practice, and one that I can teach now, which is really cool because of just training that I've done under dharma. But, yeah, it's one of my favorites to practice and to teach.

Todd McLaughlin: 43:46

Very cool, when you wake up and you're getting ready to go, you're gonna go teach, but you just have that feeling like, I'm just not feeling it today, and you're like, your your mojo is just slowed down, which is totally natural. Like, who's who's up every single day and ready for action. Do you have any things that you do to help break that ice? Yeah.

Unknown: 44:11

Well, the first thing I do is, I remember that dharma is 86 and he gets up

Todd McLaughlin: 44:16

and does it perspective, like, oh my gosh, I'm only this age. And, yeah.

Unknown: 44:21

So whether or not it's like my body's not feeling it, that's a huge part my mind's not into it. I try to think, you know what, there are these people out there that are so dedicated, and you know, they don't feel good and they're tired, and they still show up and they serve. And so I do try to put myself in that headspace and remember that it's not about me, and that it doesn't matter if I look my best, if I can do the pose, if I choose to do any of the poses at all, like it's about the people that I'm there to serve. And so I think reminding myself of that helps that, you know, remembering this doesn't have to be anything fancy, like yoga is yoga? Just give them the essentials, right?

Todd McLaughlin: 45:02

That's a good point. Yeah, I mean, and that's generally the pressure off that I have to go in here and perform. No, maybe today I'm gonna be a little more quiet until I feel excited, super excited. Let me just get the ball rolling. Yeah, cool.

Unknown: 45:16

Yeah. And I, you know, I'm one who, I'm pretty introverted person. I don't love to be the center of attention. I don't like public speaking. I've done a ton of it in my life, obviously, and I teach, but I love a good silence, and I really like to give people space. And so I think on those days when I'm really not feeling it, I give my class space to create the energy. Be nice and that often, can carry it through without me needing to put my, you know, any kind of special spin on it, right?

Todd McLaughlin: 45:51

Yeah, great answer. Book I need to read.

Unknown: 45:57

Oh, book you need to read. I read this amazing book I'm gonna It's, I'm very nerdy, so it's called, I'm telling everybody about this book because I loved it. It's called notes on complexity, and it is an interesting mix of the scientific theory of complexity and how it relates to spirituality and kind of how we view the self, wow. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's mostly written for your everyday reader, but, you know, it gets a little bit a

Todd McLaughlin: 46:32

little bit much. We need a challenge. We need a good challenge. We don't want to, yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 46:37

But this is a book I can't even remember who the author is right now, but I really, I loved

Todd McLaughlin: 46:42

it. Oh, man, I appreciate that. Do you even have time for shows like I think sometimes people think yogis don't watch shows. Are you? What do you watch TV? Are you a TV person or

Unknown: 46:57

not much? I will say I you know the time I used to watch stuff because I traveled so much for my job, was when I flew on planes, because I would take these 24 hour trips to get to places. And that was the time that I watched stuff. And nowadays I don't really watch much unless so I have a teenage son, and whenever he wants to hang out, if he's like, Hey, Mom, I want to watch this thing. I'm like, yes. So whether it's some superhero thing, or it's a soccer game or whatever. I'm generally like, whatever he wants to watch. I'm here for the

Todd McLaughlin: 47:30

company. That's awesome. How old is he? Do you mind me asking? He's 15? Oh, man, it's so cool. So cool. Yeah, what a great adventure, right?

Unknown: 47:40

It is, I will say motherhood is, is pretty amazing, pretty amazing thing. We have

Todd McLaughlin: 47:46

a student, husband, wife, they, I think their baby's 10 days old now. And so all of us that have children in the Mysore room are are like, you know how when someone's getting ready to have a baby, and you know, it's the greatest joy of life, and at the same time you're kind of going whole get ready. What kind of advice would you give somebody who is embarking on parenthood, and you know, they love their yoga practice, they what? I mean, there's so much we could talk about here, but like, what's something that pops into your head about, like, advice for the new coming parents,

Unknown: 48:23

wow. I mean, and as it relates to yoga, I think the most important yoga you do will not be on your mat and not be in the Mysore room or in the group class. It will be in your everyday life and the way that you treat your family and your loved ones and everybody else for that matter. So I think use this as an opportunity right to really live your yoga, because parenthood will test you in every possible way.

Todd McLaughlin: 48:53

Yes, I affirm truth to that statement. What is something that's happening in the yoga scene? If there is such a thing that just irks you, that if you could change it, you know, without, I guess we don't need to worry about everyone's feelings, but without hurting one's feelings, if that's possible. But is there anything that you watch or witness that you just go, Oh, I wish. I wish I would just change?

Unknown: 49:24

Yeah, I think one of the most disheartening things for me, you don't see it so much as a practitioner and as a student going to I mean, sometimes you do, but as a teacher, you often experience that there isn't as much yoga in the yoga studio, as you would like, in terms of how it's managed, how people are treated. You know, people think we're all these calm, you know, lovely people. I have seen some of the most like drama filled like toxic things happening within the culture of a yoga studio, and I wish that wasn't the case. I think if I could change anything, it would be for that to not be the case. And sometimes it's because it's business, and ultimately, you know, there's money at stake, and that often, sometimes means, you know, watering stuff down, or, you know, hurting people's feelings, and people don't get to teach what they want to teach, or creating an environment of competition, which, you know, unfortunately, I've seen all of those things happen. And, yeah, it's not great.

Todd McLaughlin: 50:41

Yeah. Yeah, great answer. I agree with you. I know, isn't that an interesting thing where people like just almost assume, I assumed, I assumed that I would be entering into a tradition that's of 1000s of years old, and therefore, automatically, that meant that everybody was going to work or be ethical and care for everyone, and it would be this really pleasant environment. My my first yoga teacher, serious one was Bikram Chowdhury, so I got a real rude awakening. I should have done my I should have done my homework before I showed up for that teacher training. You know what? I mean, like, it was a great experience, don't get me wrong. I mean, I learned. I mean, I think we can learn from everything. I mean, that's one thing I really appreciate about the way that, in relation to my question of your career change, I I appreciate that you are focused on, well, look at the positivity of the changes that have occurring for for you, at least, you know, right? So I think that's a really amazing way we have, a way that we we need to, or can benefit from facing life or dealing with life challenges, but our longer term goal, if we look say, like 510, years, and I know that's like an annoying question, sometimes, what do you see happening? What would you like to see if you can put your intent in a direction and manifest it where, where, and what are you looking at?

Unknown: 52:01

Well, I hope this studio is still here and still going, you know, bringing Dharma yoga here. I was it in terms of Dharma yoga teachers, and now, you know, we have three that are currently in training to be Dharma teachers, and one other sort of Og Dharma yoga teacher who's been around for a while, who made her way here, and I hope to see that this is still thriving as sort of a Dharma yoga center affiliate in five to 10 years. I really hope that that's the case, and that I'm not the one doing all the teaching, that it's now other people who get to share this practice. So I hope for that. Michelle and I run retreats. We have sort of a, you know, long term goal. We'd love to have our own retreat center one day. So that's, that's a maybe somewhere down the line, maybe we're working on that in five years. Nice.

Todd McLaughlin: 52:57

Where was your where would be your dream place to lead a retreat to,

Unknown: 53:01

oh gosh, where to lead one to?

Todd McLaughlin: 53:03

Yeah, you get to pick you just get to right now say, Okay, we're going here

Unknown: 53:08

for somewhere to go. I would really love to go to the Galapagos.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:13

Nice answer. That would be amazing. Though I have had,

Unknown: 53:17

I've had a lot of people say that I should do one in Africa, because I have experience traveling there, and so that's a maybe as well.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:25

Wow, that's a great point. Did you ever get involved with the Africa yoga project? Yeah.

Unknown: 53:31

So I've done, from time to time, I'll do sort of donation based classes and things like that, and that's one of the primary recipients of the funds that we raise. Generally, go there.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:42

Cool. If you had to pick a country, which countries did you visit? Would you go to in Africa

Unknown: 53:48

for a retreat? Yeah, the easy one is South Africa. The more interesting one, well, they're all interesting. I'd love to bring a group to Tanzania. I'd love to bring a group to Kenya. One of my favorite places, which will not be bringing a retreat to is Zimbabwe, and you've been there, so it's a really special place. And, yeah, it's just not going to be

Todd McLaughlin: 54:16

retreat friendly. The vibe and the politics is Whoa, too. People have been telling me, you know, Okay, fair enough. I did get a chance to interview a woman named Dorcas marungu, who's in Kenya, Nairobi, yes, and she's involved with Africa yoga project, and I know she really made me want to go there too. I'd love to go to Kenya. That's a great that's a great idea. I think. Don't you think if you're going to take a retreat, if you take someone where you've actually been, the chances of it being good are going to be so much better than if we randomly pick a place that, I mean, a place like, I mean, Africa is so fascinating. What if, what an incredible country. And at the same time, you kind of want to know what you're doing a little bit. I mean, yeah, I think

Unknown: 55:00

it can be, yeah, yeah. It can be really intimidating, I think, and a bit of culture shock, especially if you are, I mean, even if you stayed in a capital city, but going out beyond that can be a little bit of culture shock. I think for most people,

Todd McLaughlin: 55:13

it's amazing. There it really is. Oh my gosh, Jen, I am so grateful to have this chance to meet and speak with you. I was really looking forward to this. I just want to let everybody know. I'm gonna have links in the in the description down below, but we're gonna find you with your your personal website is yoga endeavor.com, you also on Instagram, yoga endeavor, same handle, and then your studio name is the website is yoga calm and. Dot com and with the same handle on IG yoga, commons, Fairfax, well, actually a different handle, but they get the idea, yeah. So I'll have those there. People can click and it'll be super easy. Thank you so much for sharing your stories around your life and journey and yoga. I really appreciate it. I feel like there's so much potential learning by hearing conversation and hearing like boots on the ground style, like what's going on. So I appreciate your honesty and openness and everything that you shared. Thank you so much. Is there something that you would like to conclude with today, to leave us? What kind of note would you like to leave us on,

Unknown: 56:23

Oh, wow. Just to say, like, I'm eternally grateful to be able to share this practice, to share my journey, to connect with people like you, who are you know on the same path, and you know anybody who's on this path that's curious, that's learning, just be open, be receptive.

Todd McLaughlin: 56:39

Thank you, Jen, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for joining me in this inspiring conversation with Jen Armistead. I really appreciate it. If you'd like to learn more, please remember, go check out Jen on her websites, yoga endeavor.com, and yoga commons.com and if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the native yoga Todd cast. Share it with your friends who are passionate about yoga and holistic living. Your support helps us continue to bring conversations with teachers and practitioners who are making an impact in the world of yoga. Until next time, have a great one. Take care. You. The native yoga Todd cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you like this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com, and hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends. Rate it and review and join us next time you.