Mandi Gardner - The Intersection of Yoga and Mental Health: Healing Childhood Trauma

Mandi Gardner is a dedicated yoga teacher and founder of Holistic Evolution Shala. Mandi's journey into yoga began in her early 20s, and she has since delved deep into practices such as Bikram and Ashtanga yoga. Residing in Utah, she currently teaches Vinyasa and Ashtanga yoga and is passionate about making yoga more accessible. Alongside her yoga endeavors, she has overcome significant personal challenges, including addiction and trauma, and now shares her insights through her YouTube channel and podcast. Mandi is committed to promoting holistic wellness and integrating DBT skills into her teachings to help others on their healing journeys.

Visit Mandi on her website: https://www.holisticevolutionshala.com/
Subscribe to her YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HolisticEvolutionShala

Key Takeaways:

• Mandi Gardner found solace and healing in yoga practice, progressing from casual engagement to deeply integrating it into her path to recovery and overall health.
• Ashtanga yoga provided a vital structure for Mandi, fostering physical and mental growth and leading to significant personal realizations and healing.
• Mandi's sobriety journey was supported by combining yoga with DBT skills, emphasizing focusing on future progress rather than being consumed by past trauma.

Thanks for listening to this episode. Check out: 👇
8IN8 Ashtanga Yoga for Beginners Course Online- Learn 8 Limb Yoga in 8 Days - Get FREE coupon code for a limited time only (Regular price $88) https://info.nativeyogacenter.com/8in8-ashtanga-yoga-for-beginners-8-limbs-in-8-days/

New Student FREE Livestream Special ~ 2 Weeks of Free Unlimited Livestream Yoga Classes at Native Yoga Center https://info.nativeyogacenter.com/livestream/

Practice with Native Yoga Online - New classes EVERY day - Use Code FIRSTMONTHFREE https://nativeyogacenter.teachable.com/p/today-s-community-class

Subscribe to Native Yoga Center and view this podcast on Youtube.

Thank you Bryce Allyn for the show tunes. Check out Bryce’s website: bryceallynband.comand sign up on his newsletter to stay in touch. Listen here to his original music from his bands Boxelder, B-Liminal and Bryce Allyn Band on Spotify.

Please email special requests and feedback to info@nativeyogacenter.com

https://info.nativeyogacenter.com/8in8-ashtanga-yoga-for-beginners-8-limbs-in-8-days/

Enjoy new Native Yoga Center classes uploaded everyday on our online learning hub. Use code FIRSTMONTHFREE at checkout. https://nativeyogacenter.teachable.com/p/today-s-community-class

Chapters

• 0:04 Mandi Gardner's Journey From Hairdressing to Yoga Enthusiast
• 3:52 Healing Through Yoga: From Addiction to Self-Discovery
• 7:11 Balancing Bikram and Ashtanga Yoga Experiences
• 9:50 Empowerment Through Yoga: Healing Trauma and Personal Growth
• 12:42 Journey from Yoga Student to Teacher Amidst Personal Struggles
• 17:09 Letting Go of Competitive Ideas in Practice
• 18:23 Expanding Ashtanga Yoga Through Teaching and YouTube
• 20:55 Journey to Sobriety and Self-Discovery Through Yoga
• 24:42 Overcoming Addiction Without Traditional AA Methods
• 29:29 Healing Through Yoga and Positive Focus
• 33:24 Healing Through DBT Skills and Overcoming Trauma
• 38:39 Understanding and Managing a Relationship With a Borderline Parent
• 45:39 Breaking Generational Trauma Through Honest Parenting
• 50:03 Integrating DBT Skills for Healing and Improved Relationships
• 52:47 Healing Trauma Through Self-Care and Educational Practices

Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, so happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage, body work and beyond. Follow us at @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Well, hello and welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. I have a very special episode for you, and I just can't wait for you to hear this and send some feedback, because today I want to introduce you to Mandi Gardner. She is the founder of Holistic Evolution Shala. She is a trauma informed Ashtanga Yoga teacher, and she is a DBT skills coach. You visit her on her website, https://www.holisticevolutionshala.com/ and she has a link for a free offer that is called The Daily Calm, and it includes a practice workbook to help us, those of us that have gone through some trauma, how to navigate it all. And I really think that you'll learn a lot from hearing Mandi's story. I did. I feel a great connection to Mandi, and it feels really good to connect with somebody else who is on a similar thread of appreciating how much yoga can help us in the healing process from some of the challenging events that lots of us have gone through as children and beyond. So thank you for being here. I also want to mention that I have a new free course that I released called 8IN8, which is Learn 8 Limb Yoga in 8 Days. And check out in the description below, you'll see a link. Click on it. It's 100% free. It'll send you a code you can join. And basically, my goal is just to teach Ashtanga Yoga in a nice, easy style format. So if you're interested, please check it out. All right, let's begin. I'm so happy to have this chance to meet and speak with Mandi Gardner, Mandi, how are you feeling today? I'm doing good. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to chat with you. Todd, me too. You know, I just want to let everybody listening know that I was lucky enough to be on your podcast, so I got a chance to meet you already and have a conversation, and so I'm really excited to reciprocate now and have the chance to ask some questions about your yoga journey. I in the description, I'll link the to your show so people can you can go down and go to the description and check out Mandy's podcast and hear the questions she asked me. But today I have the pleasure of now asking you a bunch of questions. Mandy, are you ready? I think so. I think so. Well, first of all, I'm I'm curious why yoga? Why? How and why yoga? How did you come into yoga, and why yoga? Well, that's a great question. Yoga sort of pulled me in, really. I started, you know, in my early 20s, just doing yoga class for college, like the community college, that was my very first introduction. And, you know, I really liked yoga because it seemed very accessible. You know, I wasn't. I've never been a big gym rat, and so yoga always seemed softer and not and less scary than going to the gym and pumping weights. And so it just sort of was a natural progression, but it was being in the yoga room and just having these really beautiful moments of clarity that I was like, gosh, this is really good for me. I need to keep coming back. And so it's just, you know, slow progression, that's cool. How old were you when you took your first class? I think I was 21 very cool. And were you a university student at any point? Yes, no. I mean, I got my master's degree or sorry, sorry, sorry, that's not correct. I got my associate's degree in Architectural Technology. And then I continued. You to work towards my bachelor's degree. However, I got pregnant, and I had already been doing hair for over 10 years, and I had a really solid clientele, so I had to just ask myself, you know, what am I going to do with my life? And so yes, I have done college, but I am not working in that industry. I've been a hairdresser for 25 years. I started when I was 17, wow. And I started thinking, you know, oh, I'm just doing this temporarily so I can put myself through college, which I did for a number of years. And then I kind of had to get to this point where it's like, well, gosh, like, I am paying my bills with this, and I really enjoy it, and it's flexible. And, you know, do I want to start from ground zero and start a new career, or do I want to keep doing hair? And at that point in my career, I really wanted to keep doing hair. So that was my choice. Very cool. And so you're then obviously practicing throughout your career path and gathering, Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Yoga, you know, it was very gentle. I would go once in a while when I was younger, when I was younger, I struggled with a lot of addiction and alcoholism. I was partying a lot, and so yoga was occasionally right, and then when I got more on, the more serious about my healing journey is when I found bikrams Yoga and hot yoga, and I really dive deep into that. Really loved that hot yoga, but after doing and I only did that once a week for about 10 years, and that was the beginning of me really, really starting to heal, because I was an alcoholic. At that time, I was really struggling with, you know, just addictive behaviors and and so the once a week hot yoga was this, you know, deep cleansing of all that crap that I was putting in my body, yeah, but when I really started wanting to get better. And I really started I wanted my yoga practice. Like, Gosh, I really want to get stronger. Like, how am I, you know, and then I had a girlfriend, and she was doing this crazy yoga move, and I'm like, How are you doing that? Where are you learning that, you know, because I was doing the 26 and two, right? And so for 10 years, I was only exposed to 26 postures and two breathing exercises. And so I was like, Wait, how do I learn that? You know? So then I really started looking for a more advanced yoga teacher, and I live in the state of Utah, and so I was looking for the most experienced teacher in Utah, and I found them, and they happened to be an ashga yoga teacher. And this teacher had been to India like eight times by the time I had met this person. And so I was like, gosh, this person is the closest to the root that I'll ever find in Utah. And so I really kind of switched gears and switched away from bikrams, and I went and started doing Ashtanga. And for a long time, I did both. I did both, you know, I found the hot yoga, the ghost yoga, the 108 which is like the Advanced Series. I was doing that, and then I was also doing the mysoremashtanga. I did both of those for quite a long time. And then I really, kind of recognized that if I really wanted to for my personal body to get to the the physical goals that I had wanted to achieve. I really needed to stick with one practice. And I had so many realizations in the Mysore room that were so different than the beak rooms room, you know, one in a Mysore room, you know, yes, it's warm, but it's not hot, right? And you're creating your own internal heat. And so for me, there was much more physical transformation, like I actually got stronger. I was actually seeing some muscle definition that had never seen before, you know. And so, and then there was also these, this mental part of it, you know, the mental part. I mean, honestly, the physical part is it's nice, right? Yeah, it's nice. You do yoga and you get a little more fit. Like, sure, who doesn't like to look better in their jeans, right? But what really got me back on my mat over and over was what it did for my mind, what it did for my my because I experienced so much trauma as a kid, I emotionally dysregulate really easily. I get I get triggered really, really easily with certain things, right? And I started to learn more about this in the Mysore room, because I was able to really tap in and really observe myself in these situations and like and observe where my mind was going, and it was just a little bit different, right? Than the brooms room. Yeah, it is very different, right? I had a similar experience where I was in the Bikram room, and eventually found Ashtanga practice both. And then eventually. Gave up the Bikram and went full full Ashtanga style. So it's so cool to meet somebody else that had a similar experience. Nice. Yeah, I agree. Do. Did you ever have a moment where you felt like because Bikram had this attitude of, like, my yoga is the only yoga, and the Ashtanga world, from my experience, was kind of like, look, we clearly are the best style of yoga, and the other ones aren't really all that great, especially Bikram, because he's crazy and it's hot. Did you ever feel like when you go the Bikram studio? You couldn't talk about your Stanga life, and when you went to the isthanga Studio, you kept the Bikram life quiet. Or were you talking about it in each place necessarily? I think I would talk about it, but people weren't receptive. People are very, you know, they like what they like, you know, yeah, yep. And so then you currently are a yoga teacher, correct? And you have your own yoga studio. Say that again, and you have your own yoga studio. No, no, I teach for two different studios. One is just about to open, and the other one, I've been teaching for for a while. It's the front climbing gym, which is, sounds funny. It's a climbing club, but they actually have the largest, well, the only, Ashtanga Yoga program in Utah, and they just happen to have the because there's only two authorized teachers in Utah, and they both work for the front and because the front is primarily a mountain climbing club, the yoga is actually really financially affordable. And so for people who are really into yoga, that monthly membership is a really affordable option. And so that's, yeah, but, you know, so it does make it tricky if you want to try a stronger just because it in Utah, it's not as accessible. And that's honestly something I'm trying to work on, is to make it more accessible and not so, you know, have to have a membership to join sort of thing. Got it. Got it. Yeah, that's so interesting, right? I think Ashtanga overall is a harder style to find. Would you agree? Yes, I would agree, yeah. And then going back to what you were asking me about bikrams and Ashtanga, you kind of, you know, asked me a different question, but what I thought you were going to maybe ask me was so with B groans, you know, it's very rigid, and it's very much like, push, push, push, heat, heat, heat, right? Yeah. And I'll say that, like, in my personal like, trauma healing journey in the beginning, we kind of punish ourselves, you know, because we are in this, this mentality of like, I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough, and so I gotta prove myself, and I gotta push, push, push, and I gotta heat, heat, heat, right? And so there was a it was almost kind of this, it's not really what yoga is supposed to be about, or what you know that's not. It lost the meaning, right? And then going into a Mysore room, suddenly I was offered a choice. I was offered an option of, you know, here's this yoga cheat sheet. We're going to start with the sun salutations. Let me show you how to do these, right? And then if you're still feeling ready, we can go through the fundamentalists on us. And if you're feeling done, then go ahead and finish with the finishing sequence. And so there was more adaptability for me, and like, where I was at in the day, or where my body was at. And I really liked the piece of like, being able to make a choice for myself, really. And this is what I really try to help other other women know when they are choosing yoga, and why I advocate for Shanga yoga, because it does get a bad rap for being really rigid and hard, and I know that that's been your experience because you've been to India, but my experience in the Mysore room is that you really do get to take ownership of Your personal practice. And you do get to make those choices. And you get to, you know, sit in the discomfort and choose whether you stay there or whether you let let go and move out of it. And when it comes to, like, healing from trauma, like, super important for us to feel empowered. And, you know, in the bee crims room, when, like, if there was too snappy of a, like, a, like, Do this, do that, you know, I would get triggered in class, and my mind would be like, Oh my God, you know. And I'd be like, so distracted, because I'd be so upset, you know, like, you know, toes together, heels together, you know, it was like, oh, you know. So it was very militant and very like, oh my gosh, but I don't know it. When I was in it, I felt like, Oh, this is great, you know. But then moving, like, finding my sore and being able to, like, actually connect with my breath and actually make choices for myself and actually connect to my body. It was a totally. Different experience. You know, that's cool. Not, yeah, not having the music to distract you or the mirrors to distract you. You know, you're actually really, you know, required to focus inward and when we're healing. You know, either trauma or addiction like that is a really important piece that we need to to master. Agreed, what was the evolution from the time that you were a student to becoming a teacher? Good question. What was the evolution? Meaning, like, tiny, yeah, just like, so you're taking a stronger classes, and you loved it. And then was there, like, this opportunity to, like, do an apprenticeship, or was it that there was a specific, like, 200 hour training, or what was your first foray into thinking, I would like to be a yoga teacher, and then the journey to actually get to that point? Well, the first yoga teacher training I did was in 2014 and that was not Ashtanga. It was just a traditional like Hatha vinyasa. And I did learn a tremendous amount, and it was, it was a 500 hour so very long. It was about nine months, very in depth. And I really appreciated that training. It's always so nice to be in yoga teacher training, just to focus on yourself and practice and do all the things. But I, if I'm being honest, I was still really struggling with alcoholism at that time, and I was still really stuck on this idea that I wanted to have a healthy relationship with alcohol. I just, I was, you know, because that's what society trains you to think is like, Oh, well, you should be able to have a healthy relationship with alcohol and be able to go have a few drinks, and then, you know, but the but the truth is, I, I didn't have that ability. But anyway, I lost my train of thought. No worries. Yeah. Well that that makes me think, then what was well, let's go back to the original, oh, the yoga teacher. And then in relation to Ashtanga teaching, Ashtanga, did you get invited by the two authorized teachers to help hold down classes for them, or did they kind of mentor you? So, yeah, so I obviously started attending the Mysore room and the lead primary classes. So those two specific teachers, one specifically that I see the most, and there was a yoga teacher training that became available, and I had talked to her about it, and she really, you know, she was really supportive. And I told her how, you know, at the time, I was really kind of financially struggling, and I didn't know if I can make it work. And she came back to me a few days later and said, Hey, I got a grant for you if you want to do it. And I felt so supported, and I felt really good to, you know, know that like something that I really wanted to do, and they saw that, you know, potentially, they saw value in me. And so that was great that I was able to do that and so, yeah, that yoga teacher training was very much a stronger influenced, but not necessarily. I mean, I think she's really funny about, you know, being certified Ashtanga, because you can't really do that, right? Because if you if you want to be authorized, you have to go to India. I did have the opportunity to do like, a one week intensive online yoga clinic with Tim Feldman from Miami, yeah. And that was incredible. He helped give me so many tips to help. You know, at that time, I was working on Eka Pada Sirsasana. So he was helping me, you know, get my leg behind the head. And then I was able to go practice with sharathji in Miami last year for two weeks. And so I got to do my sore and then led primary with Sharath Joyce. And that was such an amazing experience. I was so grateful to practice with him, because it really took away all of these crazy ideas that I had, you know, you think that you're going to like because you're like, Oh, I gotta go and press the teacher, you know, I really want to be authorized, and so he's got to see, like, I gotta, you know, show off all my skills. I gotta do my best, right? But that's really not how it is. You know, he's so intelligent. He's been around this practice his entire life, and he can just look at you and look how you move in the practice to see, like, whether you've been practicing regularly or not, you know, like, he's just so intuitive. And he and before you go too far, he's like, no, no, no, too far, too far, you know. And so it really allows you to like, oh, I don't have to push myself. I literally just have to be in the practice and connect to my breath and do the thing right, like it. It took away all of these crazy, like, competitive ideas that I had totally away, you know, because he doesn't even really allow it. He's like, no, no, no, don't go too That's too fast. Far you don't go that far, right, right? That's cool. It is funny, the stuff that we build up in our head before we actually come into contact with what it is that we think we are really wishing and hoping for. What did you and then at that point, when did you start teaching stronger classes? So I it's a good question. So right now, at the front I teach vinyasa and soft and slow, and they have, they are the only real Ashtanga program in Utah, and so there's a lot of teachers that want to teach. And so I'm kind of so I'm just on the sub list. As far as teaching Mysore, I do teach. I do sub regularly, which I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful whenever I get the chance to go into the Mysore room. But I have been approached by a new studio that's close to my home that wants to offer, wants me to offer some Ashtanga classes. And I'm really excited about that, because I, as far as I know, there's only one, one or two studios that really offer the my source style practice. And when I was introducing it to the the yoga like the leader, the yoga teacher, manager and then also the owner, they honestly had never heard of it. They have no idea what it is, but because of how I've explained it to them, they're like, Well, it sounds really great. So we're excited to try it, you know? So that just goes to show like, how unique it is. It's very special. You know, when I talk about self led style Yoga, you know, people are like, what, you know, it's just very unique, but I am very excited to be able to do that. That's going to start in December, and so I'll be able to teach my soar, and also led primary two days a week. So that's just the beginning, you know. And then now I, you know, I teach on YouTube. So I have YouTube videos. And, you know, I am a newbie, and I am, you know, I'm getting, I'm gaining more skills all the time when it comes to these videos that I'm creating. But yes, I do have, like, a 30 minute Ashtanga video and, and then I also have a full prime, a full primary series on my YouTube channel. Oh, that's cool. And, yeah, so, and then I also my next one I'd really like to do is an intro to Mysore. That's for someone who has no idea what Mysore is. And so part of it will be led, and then part of it, I'll allow you space to work through it at your own. And so that'll be a video I look forward to making in the future. Well, that's cool. You spoke about trying to create a healthy relationship with alcohol, but I'm I don't want to assume, but it sounds to me like you've made the full break and have gone sober. Is that true? Yeah, that's true. What was the catalyst there? How did you like, what was the turning point to make you feel like, okay, I'm gonna get really serious about this? It's a good question, because it takes a long time. Um, I had I wanted to, like, I really was committed to having a healthy relationship with alcohol, and so I would take off my birthday month. I would take off the whole month of drinking to really prove to myself, like, I'm not an alcoholic, see, I took the whole month off, right? I did that for five years. And so every year, on my birthday month, I would take off, take off the month, you know? And it would prove to myself I was not an alcoholic. But so when I really in this whole time, I'm still doing yoga all the time, and when I really committed to Ashtanga Yoga. Was February of 2018, and that was when I decided, You know what, I am really committed to this practice. I'm only going to do this practice, and I'm going to do it four days a week at a minimum, and try to do it more than that, if I can. And then what happened was, in about nine months later, I had repressed memory come up from when I was a child, from when I was four, a very specific event that created what I call a lock on my throat chakra. It taught me that I was not safe to express myself or to express my emotions. I was also not safe to, like, show emotion. You know, I was. I had gotten in trouble. I got scolded for crying over my baby sister, who had passed away. And so that really imprinted me, right? And so I had completely forgotten about this very traumatic experience up until nine months after sobriety, like being sober, so my brain was finally giving an having an opportunity to heal, right? And so then there these repressed memories. Coming up. And that was really the beginning of me recognizing, like, Oh, this is deeper than I thought, right? And I really, I had the recognition finally, when I saw a friend of mine who ordered a White Russian drink half of it and then push it away. And he was done. And I was like, Huh? I would never do that. I would literally never do that. I would never push away a drink. I would always finish it, and I would always get another one. And that's when I realized, like, Ah, I'm an alcoholic. Like, like, I don't have a stop button, right? Yeah. And so it took a long time, like I was literally sober off of alcohol for nine months, before I realized, or before I could admit to myself, that dang, I actually have a problem. You know? Yes. And so it was because when I originally quit drinking, I had only made the commitment for one year, it was me, and my therapist had decided I was going to take one year off, and then after the year, I could re approach the idea of having alcohol in my life. Yes, but thank goodness. At nine months sober, I was like, oh shit, I'm actually an alcoholic. So I actually, I actually need to never go back there again, because I'm moving forward and I know I don't need to go backwards, and so, yeah, me getting sober was really the catalyst for me wanting to share this practice that has profoundly healed my brain and my nervous system and my mind and my spirit and My body, right? Like, it's just, it's, it really has impacted my life in such a tremendous way. And so I'm it's really important to me to teach it to other people. Oh, that's cool, Mandy, that's a very super inspirational Have you been able to stay sober since then? Yeah, yeah. Do you for asking? Right? Well, it is an accomplishment. It's an accomplishment. Did you do you utilize help from the 12 step program? Is it okay for me to ask that, or is that something that's like an anonymous thing where you're not able to talk about Todd? That's a really good question. I am not going to have your traditional answer. Aa, didn't work for me. I I even read the 12 steps in the Buddha there's a book. It's like the Buddhists view of the 12 steps. Now, like I was raised, so I'll just say, like my backstory, I'm for a long time, was pretty anti religion, just because I was raised in a very, extremely dogmatic religion, and so then I kind of went the opposite, where I was anti Can I Can I interject and ask if you're in Utah, was it Mormonism? Yep, yep, yep. I grew up Mormon understood, and I left when I was 17, when I made my first gay friend, and I realized, Oh, that's not a choice. That is just how you are. And so I had realized that everything I had been taught was wrong and incorrect. So I left at 17, but that's a whole nother story, and that had a whole nother can of worms to it. But excuse me, no worries, no worries. That's so I want to I don't want to stop you. I want you to keep going. But I am curious to learn more about in in the Mormon religion, if you step away, are you allowed to come back? Or, I know, from my understanding the in some religions, it's almost like they give you a little grace period to go away. You can come back once, but if you ever leave again, it's kind of like your ostrich sure they can still totally let you back, absolutely, absolutely they'll let you back because they want your they want your 10% tithing. Just kidding, I'm gonna have some smart ass remarks. I appreciate that, though. No, I know. Well, it's hardcore. I think the Smart House remarks are important because it gets down to the nitty gritty of some of the what, the behind the scenes of what, I'll never go back, okay, but I am very respectful, because I still, I still have family members who are loyal believers, and so I'm, you know, I'm very respectful, um, but, you know, did that push you in the opposite direction toward a more atheistic sort of philosophy? You know, I've always been spiritual. I've always believed in a higher power. I've always believed that there's some greater energy. I, however, don't know if it looks like a person, or if it looks like the universe, or if it's just a feeling of love, like I'm okay not having the answer, that's and then that's okay with me. Like I don't I don't have to fill in the gaps with answers. Like it's okay that it's the unknown. On for me, yeah, I can relate, excellent. So you, I wanted to kind of get us back on the thread where I interrupted you. You left the church and we were and you got sober and oh yeah, aa, and you were gonna say traditional answer, I don't have. So with AA, there is a point or a piece of it that says that you have to admit to yourself that you're powerless, and that's the piece that I'm not okay with. Because I'm not powerless. I'm not powerless to my addiction or my alcoholism. I was able to, you know, overcome it, and so I don't know, I'm sure people can disagree with me, but I I don't like that terminology. I don't like being feeling like I am powerless, because then where's the motivation to get sober and to get better? I also don't think it's productive or good to always go down the old rabbit holes when you're in AA, unfortunately, and I, and I have, I have gone to AA, but I didn't go very often. I just went a couple of times, and then it wasn't for me. What was my train of thought going but just the whole idea of going down the rabbit hole, like maybe dredging up constant like, this is my problem, constantly thinking about why we have the trauma, you know, like constantly thinking about, now I obviously there's a such a valuable piece in acknowledging like this happened, and this was not okay. This wasn't this wasn't good, right? But always continually living there doesn't help us move forward. It doesn't help us create new neural pathways towards creating new communication behaviors, towards having healthy relationships, right? So I'm a big advocate of focusing on the positive, focusing on how we can shift gears to be healthier, to communicate our feelings more effectively, to maybe identify our emotions a little bit more clearly. You know, first, like, allow ourselves to, you know, feel our feelings, and then, is this what I'm feeling, and then to be able to express it, you know, like there's so many skills that need that that we could focus on learning to help better our lives versus focusing on the past. Now, I do understand like that is part of the process, but at some point we need to evolve forward where we're no longer dwelling on the past and re, re, you know, because when it comes to the neural pathways and trauma like the one, the neural pathways that we think about all the time are these gaping rivers, you know. And because they're these gaping rivers, we go down there really easily. We think about it really easily, because we've been there a ton. And the only way to, you know, we can, quite literally, shrink our neural pathways by by not using that neural pathway, right? But that means we need to be strengthening a different one, which means we got to focus on the positive, right? And so I'm a big advocate of really focusing on, you know, what's going to help us? Like, what are the symptoms that we're dealing with, and what can we do to help with these symptoms, and not necessarily like digging in the weeds all the time. Understood. If that makes sense. Yeah, it does. I get it. What then would you attribute your success to? I'm guessing, obviously, yoga, and then maybe even more specifically, Ashtanga Yoga. But if you had to really pinpoint some of the key factors of why you're able to stay sober and be successful in what you're doing. What were you what will you attribute that to beyond your own power, like not powerlessness? But you know you made mention of the fact that you're acknowledging that you do have the power to make change, and you're recognizing that. Can you explain a few more details for for me, please? Yeah, so it's a very good question. You know, healing is such a complex thing, you know, it's so complex and the yoga, the beautiful thing about yoga is that you're kind of unconsciously healing. You don't recognize it because you don't know, like, Oh, that felt really good. But there's a deeper level of healing that's happening, and I really genuinely contribute, like, attribute my yoga practice to healing my brain in a way that I could actually be successful in moving forward and continuing to make good choices I really do. But Yoga, you know, it heals us physically and obviously emotionally and mentally in this, like physical way. I. But the other real catalyst for me, and I do talk about this on my YouTube channel quite a bit, is learning DBT skills or dialectical behavior therapy skills, and, you know, in my healing process. So I got sober, and I was so excited to, you know, just focus on all this positive stuff, focus on my family focus on raising my son. I had decided to stop dating. It was like too much of an energy suck, and I made the decision to, well, me and my mother were both looking to purchase a home at the same time, and her and I decided to do it. We decided to purchase a home together, because wouldn't that be so great to have grandma around in the last few years of raising my son and we could support each other. We're both single women right now, little did I know my mom suffers something that's called borderline personality disorder, and I didn't know that until I moved in with her and moving in with her and discovering that you know, anyone who's familiar with borderline personality disorder knows that that is a lot. There's a lot to it. Her behaviors were really hurtful, and it was re triggering a lot of trauma from my childhood that I wasn't expecting or No, I didn't realize. And anyway, in discovering that she has borderline that is where I found DBT or dialectical behavior therapy. So it's typically, it's typically in the world of psychology. It's typically used for people who suffer from BPD or borderline. But my symptoms were more in alignment with complex PTSD or CPTSD, and I still found that these DBT skills were quite literally like, what has changed my life in such a positive, such a positive way? It literally, like catapulted me forward because it gave me real life skills. And I call them fundamental life skills, because when you grow up with parents who are dysfunctional, like, Where the heck do you learn how to have a functional relationship, right? And the DBT skills, the dialectical behavior, because the dialectic, right? It's um, because the trauma brain can go into this black and white thinking really easily, right? And this catastrophizing thinking of like, you know, oh, I'm triggering. Oh, my gosh, it's the worst. And everything's the worst. And this is, you know, I'm gonna have to move out or, like, it just goes to this cat, like, it's a catastrophe, right? And the dialectic is allowing us to come to the middle path, allowing us to believe that two seemingly opposing ideas are same, are are true to the same time. So something that would trigger me before is, if my partner was mad at me, my partner got mad at me, I immediately was like, dysregulated. I couldn't handle it. I didn't have the skills to handle it right. And then the dialectic is okay, so understanding because the trigger is like your mind is reeling on a on an idea that is a lot of times incorrect, right? And so trying to navigate, well, what's reality? So understanding that, like, Okay, so my husband, it was my boyfriend at the time. He's my husband now my my boyfriend at the time. He can be mad at me, right? And he can still love me, right? And those two things could be so true at the same time, but my trauma brain would go immediately like, Oh, he's mad at me. Oh, my gosh, we're breaking up. Oh, you know, it's the end of the world. And so being able to call like, have that ability to pause and to analyze, okay, what's going on here, and is that correct? And, you know, trying to think of the dialectic of, like, Okay, wait, so he can be mad at me and he can still love me. I hope that's a good explanation, but the DBT really is, like, profoundly changed my life, and that's why I'm that's why I started a YouTube channel, to start sharing it with everyone, because I don't think it's talked about enough. I think it should be talked I think it should be taught in high school and junior high, because these are really fundamental, so important. It helps us to develop our emotional intelligence, and it helps us to have these difficult conversations and without getting triggered. You know, because when we recognize that we're getting triggered, that's the opportunity for us to like, oh, take a step back, take some do some self care, right? And understanding that when we're in our triggered mind, we quite literally cannot access our rational mind. And so if we know we can't access the rational mind, we know we have to, okay, we gotta calm ourselves down, do some self care. So that's been the biggest thing for me. I am, yeah, that's been the biggest thing that's amazing Mandy on a couple of fronts, because, well, first, I just want to try to understand and clarify when you said So you grew up with your mom, but then obviously you weren't. Even with your mom, and then you had your son, and then you had a moment where you thought, let's reunite and have be together. But then you said, that's when you you or you said you didn't know that your mom had been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. So I'm thinking that your mom had this borderline personality disorder throughout your entire childhood, but then she received the diagnosis maybe later when you weren't living with her. So then upon moving back in, that's when she brought this information to the table, which, which I just got to hear more about that, because she wasn't diagnosed until after we had moved in together, and it was her going to her therapist, because, unfortunately, she tends to go through therapists really quickly, because when they tend to start seeing the real her, she gets scared as like, Oh, they're not the right One. But so it's a good question. I grew up thinking that my mom was bipolar. I thought that she had, you know, extreme depression mood swings, right? But the thing with Bipolar is that they have these incredible mood swings over long periods of time, so maybe three days or three weeks, right? But with borderline, they will have a range of emotions, anywhere from angry, happy, sad, laughing, contemptible, right? All within an hour, like, it'll be like, it's quite the roller coaster and and essentially, it's, yeah, I won't go on anyway, but yeah, so she, I always knew that, like there was something that she struggled with, but I didn't. And then for 20 years, I didn't live with her, and we had kind of this, I didn't realize, but we had a pretty superficial relationship, right? And it was very like, oh, how are you? Oh, you know. And I did go to her quite a lot for advice on relationships, which, looking back, was not good. You know, she's been divorced four times, and there's a reason, and, you know, so I started recognizing, like, oh, gosh, maybe I shouldn't ask her for advice, you know. Anyway, it was so I've always known there was something, right? But then actually moving in with her and actually seeing these behaviors in real time, where she was acting like she was treating me, as if I was treating her like a monster, like she was acting like she was scared of me because I was the monster. And I was like, Wait, I don't understand, because she's the one acting all strange, like, she's the one being really cold and saying hurtful things, and then, like, you know, not wanting to spend time with me, and I asked her, like, Hey, you want to come up for dinner? Now I'm fine. Like, okay, you know. And so I just was really confused. And my husband now, who we were just dating at the time, and I am so grateful he was, you know, saw the light in me and was patient during this process. But you know, I would cry to him, and I don't know why she's acting like this. I don't know why she's treating me like this. Like this is so strange. And he's like, gosh, have you ever heard of borderline personality disorder? And I was like, No, I haven't. And so I looked it up, and I was like, Well, let's look it up. Give it a Google and sure enough, sure enough. So there's nine characteristics, and if you have five of the characteristics, you're thought to have the disorder. My mom does have varying degrees of all nine characteristics, and so it is via, you know, it's beyond a doubt that she has, you know, what is considered borderline personality disorder. I do think that's a terrible name. I think what's the other one? Dysregulation disorder is more appropriate. Before that diagnosis, it was multiple personality. I think, I think prior to borderline, it was, I know in the in the 80s, I feel like, from what I understand, it was the diagnosis was that somebody would be called multiple personality because there's this like on this character, and then real quick there's a similar, but different so it is D, i, d, dissociative identity disorder is what they refer to as multiple personality disorder. Thank you. Thank you for clarifying that. And that's where I was getting confused right now, because I was remembering that they changed that name when, and I apologize for confusing. No, that's okay. And borderline, does it? So it seems like she's got these multiple personalities to me as this outsider, yeah, but that's not really what it is, unfortunately, what it really is is that she's in this, she's always in a reactionary mode. She's always in this, like, low level, like she's so traumatized that her nervous system is always in this, like, low level, fight or flight, and just one little thing is going to send her off of the rockers, right? And so she's just, you, we would call her in a mode. Emotional burn victim. So if you barely touch her, she's searing pain, right? And so that's like, so that's the best way I can describe it. But it's not necessarily that they have multiple personalities, even though, when she gets dysregulated and she speaks those really unkind words, it definitely seems like she's another person, but it's not coming from being another identity. It comes from this trauma based, reactionary, uh, place, if that makes sense. It does. How are you currently navigating, keeping your health and having a relationship with her? Good question. Um, after so we only lived together for two years, and then we sold the town home, because obviously living together was not good for either of us, and as much as I wanted it to be, but so she lives by herself, and that's exactly what she needs to do. She needs to have her own space. And for a long time, I thought I would just disown her. And I know that sounds harsh, but I didn't have the skills to handle it before, but once I learned the dialectical behavior therapy skills, I had this whole tool belt of skills that I could use, and so now I'm able to have a somewhat healthy relationship with her. You know, it will never be the relationship that I desired in my heart long ago. You know that nurturing mother relationship that's just unfortunately, not something she's capable of doing, but now that I have understood, you know, what she deals with and who she is, and I just have a different appreciation. Now I have more compassion for her, because before I didn't understand, and now I do. And so it's allowed me to have a relationship with her, but in a very safe way, because I've learned how, because part of the DBT is me learning how to have healthy boundaries, and so I've learned how to have healthy boundaries so that I can have a relationship with her in a way that supports that protects me, right? And there's more to it, but oh my gosh, I'm so thankful to hear all this. I've grown up in a similar environment, so I can really understand what you're talking about. How about now as a parent, and I know this is probably a little bit of a more difficult question, because then we It requires us to be very honest with like, how we parent our own children? Do you feel like you've been successful at breaking some of that trauma, sort of parenting? You know, when you've experienced trauma your whole life, and then you become a parent? Wow. Now you're the magnifying glasses come out, and then you start becoming aware of what's happened to you. You're becoming aware of what you're actually doing with your own children or child. And this sense of responsibility becomes intense, because you realize you got to do the work, and now you're responsible to not leave those same marks on the next generation. How have you been able to navigate that scenario? It's great question. Well, just being cognitively aware is huge, right? I really tried like to do my best all the time. I've always been so driven to be a good mom and but, you know, I said I stopped drinking in 2018 he was 10. And so when he was younger, I kind of could get away with it, right? But he was starting to get to an age where he was starting to like, recognize, and starting to notice, and I started just really feeling guilty, like, Mom, guilt of like, gosh, you know, like, I don't want to just have this, you know, blurry idea, like, this blurry remembrance of the holidays, because I've drunk myself, you know, the whole time. And, you know, really asking myself, like, what kind of mom do I want to be for him? You know, my son is, is the number one reason that I have really been dedicated to getting better. I will say that, you know, I'm, I've, well, you know, I'm not perfect. I'm not a perfect human. I definitely made mistakes and but the thing about me that's a little bit different, and I Is that him and I can have really open conversations, and I have been very honest with him, and I said, You know that? You know that that thing that happened where I got really upset, because they're like, so one specific example, he was taking the garbage out, and he spilled coffee grounds on the white carpet, and I was so upset, I immediately got triggered. I immediately just, like, started yelling and screaming, and I was so upset, and I was picking up the, you know, picking up the coffee grounds, and then to see how it affected my son, I just was immediately like, oh shit, oh no, I've just done it, right? I've just done it. And so, yeah, I've, I have totally screwed up, right? And I've, I've, I've been that terrible, crazy mom at times. And the difference between because we're not perfect, right? And this is me being super honest, um, but the difference is that I can call myself out. I can say, Honey, I did that, and that was wrong. I shouldn't have acted that way. I am so sorry. I will, I will do my best to never do that again. And I have, I have, you know, obviously drinking, it makes it really hard. You can get triggered really easily when you're in the bouts of alcoholism. But being able to get sober, being able to learn DBD, DBT skills, I don't get triggered nearly as often, and if I do, I have the skills to deal with them so they don't affect the people around me in a really negative way. So my son, I has definitely had a different upbringing, but it has been in a lot of a lot of work, you know, a lot of work. Oh, man, I appreciate your honesty. Mandy, thank you so much for being open like this and and actually telling it like it is. If I'm curious and or listeners curious about how to integrate DBT skills in our lives, my life, what would you recommend? Is there a book? Is there? Is there a program? Is there? Do you have to be going to a therapist? What is the route that one can take to integrate the sin? So, good question. Um, so Martha Marsha Linehan is the woman who created DBT, and she does have a book, and it is called, I think it's called Living a life worth living, or creating, a life worth living, something like that. Marsha Linehan is her name. That is a great starting point. The thing is, you know, when we're thinking, when we're talking about healing from trauma and we're talking about learning new skills, this isn't something that you can take, like, a two hour course and have it like, impact you in a positive way. Like, obviously, it'll be beneficial, but for this to really change your life, you need to, like, have an opportunity to learn it, and then to integrate it into your life, and then to go back and talk about how you integrated it into your life and how you could continue to be better. And so the program that I learned was a 12 week program, I will say so, because we've talked about borderline personality disorder, if there's anyone who is a family member of someone who suffers borderline personality disorder or dysregulation disorder, I would check out family connections of any a BPD. Family connections is a free 12 week course that teaches family members of those who suffer from BPD how to you know, how to deal with that, how to have a better relationship with this person, how to understand and speak to this person in a way that you guys could have a potentially a healthier relationship, you know? And maybe the best thing is that you step away from that person, maybe not. But these skills offer you an avenue of of not having to totally cut off that relationship. So that's a really good resource. That's where I learned it originally, and then I started volunteering for that nonprofit to teach the DBT skills in the courses. And I co hosted courses with a gentleman whose daughter was diagnosed PPD, I will say that his daughter was diagnosed PPD, but after two years of dialectical behavior therapy, she no longer qualified. So even though, in the world of psychology, they say borderline is not curable, it that is not my experience. My experience is that I have seen an 18 year old who turned, you know, 22 year old who had, you know, an intensive two year program, who no longer qualifies being borderline. And so, you know, it works. I just, yeah, it works. It works. And so I do, you know, I think that these diagnoses are helpful, but I also think that they can keep you in a box. And so it's, you know, but family connections was really great. Oh my gosh, that's great. Thank you for mentioning all those resources. I wrote them down. I'll do my best to incorporate those links into the description so people can click and find easy and Mandy, you have your website, which is holistic evolution, shala.com, and you said that you offer a free resource that people can sign up and get access to the daily calm. Is that correct? Yep, yeah. So I've created what's called the daily calm practice, so it's like my own pro like my own little system of how you can set up yourself for success when it comes to staying emotionally regulated and expressing yourself and also taking care of yourself. So the daily call practice worksheet, there's four steps, and it's the calm, c, a, l, m. And it's create a self care schedule and set intentions. The a part is address and reduce vulnerabilities. L is learn what they don't teach you and talk therapy. And then m is Master, master for daily practice. So it's a really great little worksheet, and if you are struggling with any of the symptoms of trauma, so addiction, depression, hyper vigilance, trust issues, relationship issues, I promise you, you'll find value. So you can get that on my website. It's holistic evolution shala.com and it will just say, get the free workbook, and you can click the button and get it. And I, you know, I put a lot of heart and soul into it, and I really know that there's value. So check it out and tell me what you think. I definitely will for sure. And everybody listening, please also send Mandy a little note to let her know if you enjoy this episode, and just give us some feedback. We really appreciate it. I'm so thankful Mandy to have this opportunity. I do have more questions for you, and so maybe we can do a part two sometime soon, and that would be amazing. And I've really enjoyed the opportunity of having being able to be on your show, and I'm so thankful to have this chance to have you here and being honest about some of these challenges that we've faced growing up and now trying to integrate and move forward in a more healthy way. Is there anything that you'd like to leave us with as inspiration and or motivation beyond what you've shared in the attempt to close our conversation? Oh, well, thank you for listening and being interested. I you know, it means a lot to me to be able to share my story. Because, you know, I know that there's others out there who are struggling with similar things that can really benefit from, you know, my past experiences, and knowing that there are real tools that can help. But, yeah, I mean, basically you don't know what you don't know, and this healing journey is is an educational path as well. You know, like, it's not just connecting to our breath and practicing yoga, but it's actually, quite literally, like learning new skills. You know, when we have a lot of trauma in our childhood, like we didn't learn some of those, and so we have to learn them and that's okay, and so just get curious and get excited, and hopefully this will inspire you to to ask a little bit more. Well. Thank you, Mandy, well said, and I really look forward to next time getting a chance to continue this conversation. And once again, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you, Todd. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you, native yoga. Todd. Cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you like this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com, and hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and Review and join us next time. Well, yeah, now you