Sara Ticha - Unlocking the Heart: The Transformational Power of Bhakti Yoga

Sara Ticha is a renowned international yoga teacher and influencer celebrated for her unique integration of mindfulness and yoga practice. Sara has a notable presence on Instagram, where she shares inspiring content focused on positivity and personal growth. With experience teaching at various yoga festivals and hosting retreats, Sara is continuously expanding her influence in the yoga community. Her journey includes transitions from dynamic asana practices to experimenting with Bhakti yoga, where she's embraced mantra chanting and playing the harmonium to deepen her spiritual connection and teaching breadth.

Visit Sara on her website: https://saraticha.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sarahticha/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SaraTichaYoga

Key Takeaways:

• Sara Ticha highlights the significance of pausing and reevaluating one's path to ensure genuine growth and fulfillment.
• The integration of Bhakti yoga into her practice has offered Sara profound insights and emotional release, aiding her personal development.
• The power of openness and adaptability in yoga practice allows for a deeper connection and understanding of oneself.
• Navigating the complexities of yoga teaching, from international travel to studio commitment, requires self-awareness and adaptability.

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Chapters

• 0:03 Balancing Travel, Teaching, and Personal Growth in Yoga
• 8:09 Overcoming Nerves and Embracing the Magic of Teaching Yoga
• 15:03 The Importance of Language and Passion in Teaching Yoga
• 20:53 Discovering Yoga's Transformative Power and Personal Growth
• 28:35 Emotional Healing Through Bhakti and the Power of Harmonium
• 34:53 Bridging Western and Eastern Traditions in Yoga Through Music
• 43:41 Exploring Personal Connections to Mantras and Spiritual Practices
• 54:55 Navigating Yoga Politics and Personal Spiritual Journeys
• 1:01:38 Staying Open to Life's Unfolding Opportunities

Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, so happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage, body work and beyond. Follow us at @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast.... today I bring to you Sara Ticha. Sara is a yoga teacher. She is currently in Europe. She divides her time between Europe and teaching in Bali, she is offering a 200 hour hybrid yoga teacher training, and then that's also going to include an immersion in India in 2025. Please visit her on her website, which is saraticha.com. I met Sara through Instagram. I recommend you go follow her over there. Her handle is at@sarahticha and let me know what you think about this conversation, because I think Sara has such a positive vibe, and I really enjoyed listening and hearing about her journey through yoga and transformation from yoga asana to bhakti yoga, and how much her taking on bhakti yoga and practicing bhakti yoga has really opened up her life and her ability to communicate and to feel and to express emotion. So I hope you enjoy listening to this as much as I enjoyed my conversation with her. Let's go ahead and begin today. I have the opportunity to meet and speak with Sara Ticha, Sara, I'm so excited to meet you. I've really enjoyed following you on Instagram, and all the positive energy you bring to your channel. How are you feeling today? Hi Todd, and thank you so much for having me on your podcast, and also wonderful pronunciation of my last name. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm feeling good today. It was, I would say it was a pretty intense week in terms of, I don't know, just tell life, tell me happening. I'm curious. I would agree with you, but I'm just curious what part was intense for you. For me this week, I actually paused, or it was late last week, but I I paused after a long time. There were weeks and weeks and weeks of me just moving from one place to another. I taught at two festivals and also participated on two festivals, which can get intense on itself. I had a training earlier. I was taking care of my family. So this time I finally like now I'm by myself in the countryside, and I feel like when you pause, it's when the body can really like the body mind can really notice what happens. So now I'm in a process of digesting the experiences of the past weeks, which really makes me think about things and reevaluate things and and think for the future. Do I want to keep moving in this way? Or what can I adjust or shift? Is this appropriate? Or do I want to make any changes? Can you give me an example of perhaps an event that occurred that is causing you to rethink like this? Hmm? I think like a living situation. We're getting really into personal things, but a living situation, and I've been like, currently I'm in my parents place on a countryside. But other than that, I live in the city. I either live in Prague, in the middle of a city, or when I'm in Bali, which is my second home, it's also quite a busy place, Ubud, and I'm realizing, I don't know if it's coming with age, but the older I get, and as time passes, I just feel like I want to move out of the city, and currently I'm exploring the options of how to do that in the best way. And yeah, so it's like a whole new thing. Of finding a home and creating a place where I can feel grounded, where I can live, because I've been traveling quite a lot, and now I'm craving Great answer. Great answer. I feel like a lot of budding yoga teachers, yoga practitioners, see the travel lifestyle, of the professional, International Yoga lifestyle, and it's really hard for us not to feel like, wow, I want that. That looks so incredible. I mean, obviously, if you're a traveler and you love international culture, I love hearing though, like, your perspective, after having a lot of time in that environment of that now you're kind of having this sort of like, maybe I want to chill out a little bit absolutely yoga studio, right? You have a pretty grounded yeah situation, yeah, my wife and I, we've been here for 18 years in this location, and so I do appreciate that, but I do remember when I watched my friends and colleagues traveling I was, I don't want to use the word jealous, but I wanted that too. Like I felt like, gosh, that looks so much more fun, you know, like the in, the day in and day out, of showing up every single day and dealing with all the challenges of holding down a brick and mortar space in relation to the economics of it and all that sort of stuff. Like, there's times where I thought, gosh, that looks so much more glamorous. But I think now I am getting a little older too. And I mean, we all are right, and so I do cherish where I am right now, but I totally understand what you're saying, and that's so cool. Can you tell me a little bit about the festivals that you taught at, where did you go? I'm gonna, I'm gonna in a moment. It's just what came to my mind as you were sharing your part, is that, like this natural tendency of a human mind to always look at the other things, what you don't have in the moment. So whether you're in a position of a person who is having this teaching and traveling lifestyle, or person that has a yoga studio. All both of them are like all all expressions of life and career, have their their beautiful sides and their challenges. And it's just interesting to see how you always kind of miss the other thing so true, and how yoga practice helps you, you know, become aware of these of them and really lean back into appreciation of what you have that gave me a funny idea. Let's swap. Can I house in your studio and I'll go off to some festivals for a little bit. Maybe I hear you. That's funny. Well, that's so cool. How what got you in spot? Oh yeah. What? Oh yeah. The festival question. Where were you teaching? I was in Corfu, in Greece at the Calabrese spirit Festival, and in Czech Republic at the healing festival. Wow. And they both happened. It was beginning of August, both of them and they were actually back to back. They overlapped a little bit. So my partner and I had seven, eight consecutive days of just festival lifestyle and beautiful, I must say, beautiful and deep. And yeah, I think festivals can get as deep as you want them to. It can be either a lighter experience of celebration or it can really uproot your life, if that's the expression, it can really flip things for you and make you look at things from different perspective. What were your offerings? What type of when, you're called to the stage to teach, which direction do you go? Currently, I am playing with a combination of asana practice. So vinyasa yoga practice, which is something that I have been doing and teaching for most of my most of my career, most of my yoga journey. But a couple years ago, I started to play around with aspects of bhakti, and I discovered mantra chanting and with zero musical background, I started to learn a new instrument, harmonium, and I started to open up my voice, and I noticed how transformative that is, how much it helped me. It felt like a therapy. I did not know I was looking for, but it was exactly that which, which was necessary for me to release something from the body and to connect with myself on a deeper level. So now the practice, I call it back to flow, which and what happened in the caliber spirit festival, I themed it around celebration of life. The cause was an invitation to look at bhakti as a celebration of life from different perspective, just like in Kirtan, in devotional chanting, we sing. Different names of the Divine, which are connected to different aspects, different flavors of life. So the practice was about pasting different flavors of life and embracing all of the different flavors of life, not only the joyful, but all of them the scary and the challenging. So it was a little vinyasa, and it was a little dancing moment as well. Andre my partner, he's, uh, apart from other things, he also DJ. So he was DJing live music for us, and then we chanted at the end. So really, very cool. Was it well? Was it well received? Yeah, at the beginning, people were a little skeptical, because it was the last day of the festival, after six days of just going fully, and especially the last night, people stayed out till late, and I had the first session on Friday morning, so everybody who came was a little like you could see that people are tired, but they still showed up. And at the beginning, there was a little there was a little skeptical, I would say, I could see it in the faces. But then through, I think just the power of practice. You know, sometimes you don't feel like stepping on the yoga mat, or you don't even feel like teaching, but then, as soon as it begins, and you get into that as a teacher and as a student, this dynamic, this magic starts happening. And eventually it was a very beautiful and fun experience. And it actually fell exactly on the day of my birthday. So it was my birthday on the day nice, and it was the best celebration I could have wished for that can give you a little extra juice. Don't you think when you wake up and you know it's your birthday, like, even if you're doing the same thing you do every day, you're like, it's gonna be more fun today. It's gonna be more fun. It's my birthday. Absolutely, I was I was buzzing. I woke up that day. The session was at eight. I was supposed to be there at eight in the morning, but I woke up at three in the morning, just like morning, yet then I tried to go back to sleep, but I could not really so I just laid in bed and passed around, and despite having very little sleep, I was just very, very excited. Do you Do you still get nerves before going in front of a group like that. Do you? Do you still contend with nervous energy? That is a really good question. I used to not get any nerves, but especially before I during this festival, the Colibri spirit festival, I did feel a little nervous. I think I can't like what it was caused by is that that festival was very important to me, and I felt like I need to make it extra special. I need to be, you know, I need to give this extra something. And through that, I started to feel nervous, and then I try to remind to myself that, hey, like, you have nobody to impress, and this is not about you. You're here just to do your job, just to help people feel good and have a good time and have an incredible practice. Like that's the only thing I can do, do my job. So when I reminded myself that I did not feel nervous, but yeah, I like, this is one thing I really needed to always remind to myself whenever I stepped on a stage, and especially like this class was there were, maybe, I know, 6070, people. So it was a big class, but it wasn't like a stadium, huge stage type of situation. Other festivals have that too. And I think what I at least needed the most in this situation is to remind to myself that this is not about me proving myself to anybody is this is not about me showing how great I am. Nobody cares about that. This isn't just me doing my job period, like, you know, humbling myself a little, yeah, yeah. And that's what always helps, yeah. I love hearing that. I like hearing the inner workings of that kind of pre stage environment, because that happens even like, say, someone just finishes their yoga teacher training and they're going to teach their very first class. It can be incredible nerve wracking. So I like that you are bringing up sort of this introspective. Let me just get clear about what my role is, and what can I do to actually facilitate that. That's so cool. I know. Yeah, awesome. Do you run teacher trainings? I do, aha. We do, yeah, my wife, uh huh. We have, for a long time, we've put a lot we teach this also to your students, like how to step up in front of people, how to present, like how to take on the role of a facilitator. What is your thoughts on this? One thing I always say is, like, sometimes the new teacher will come in, they'll turn on the lights, so. Open the door, or whatever their entry is, and they'll say, everybody, I'm really nervous. This is my first time ever doing this. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. And oftentimes I'll say, like, just don't come in with that. I like, don't, don't come I mean, it is being honest. And there's this, like, this fine line of like, yes, we should be honest. Like, we should be very honest about what we're thinking and feeling. But sometimes, like, when I hear somebody come in and they go, Oh my gosh, I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I don't know how I'm gonna do this. You guys, this is my first time. Please be nice to me. I don't know what I'm doing. I go, Oh boy, here we go, like, you know, but then they get going, and you feel, like, so excited. But I find like, if you almost just cut right into, like, Good morning everybody, let's begin and just like, leave that whole doubt, leave all of the worry, all the self criticism, just save that maybe for the middle of class, because by the time you get to the middle class, you probably won't say it, because you're going to be feeling pretty good. Like, like, I like that. You brought up the dynamic of the magic of even, and I like that. You said, like, sometimes, as a teacher, I might even be walking and going. I'm not really in the mood for this right now. Like, I'm just not in the mood. But then something happens after, like, right after the beginning, where you're just like, oh my gosh, I love what I do. I love what I do. This is so fun. So I like that you're bringing attention all that. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you there, and also on announcing that you feel nervous. Like, absolutely it's sweet to be to be honest, that something I have been told in my first teacher training is that when you step into the room, you need to own, like, I don't know the right expression, but to own the place. Like to step there with your, you know, shoulders back, chin up, and just like this is me, and I'm going to do my job now and just follow it. I remember my first class I ever taught. I did my teacher training in Austria, in German, and both German and English are not my native languages, and German is even under English, I would say something that is more challenging for me. And the first job I got was at a fitness studio. So it was a fitness studio yoga class, and they had me sit on a little stage, and there were 50 people. It was a huge class for my first class, yeah, and it was supposed to be in German, and I said there, and I think I even trampled a little bit, and I felt my sweat just dripping down my body because of how nervous I was. That's a whole nother element. Like not having to teach in a foreign language. I'm trying to learn Spanish, and every time I try to teach in Spanish, if I have a Spanish speaking group, wow, yeah. So you'll get used to it. You can use it, yeah, but I kept the words of my teacher training teacher that said, just own the room. Just smile. Try to do your best. Like not try to do your best. Do your best and and give it your all. And I think if you from your heart, give your all as a teacher, but also like, no matter what you do, no matter what the job is, when you do your best and do it honestly, I think people can feel it. Yeah, yes. I have a little like, side funny story here, same fitness studio, but a different class. I was 2021 No, 22 and so they gave me this one class, and then they said, oh, there's also a Pilates class after the yoga class, you can take that as well. I have never attended a Pilates lesson in my life. I was like, Yeah, sure, I can do that. So I watched, I watched some YouTube videos. I was like, it cannot be that hard. Yeah. And I told the Pilates class, did my best, I think it was a good workout. And after the class, one lady comes to me, and she's like, I really like your energy. It was a good class, but dear, it was not Pilates. And, you know, like she noticed she knew, because she was also Pilates instructor. But I think really, when you do your best from the heart, and of course, we don't want to harm people. We want to be informed. We want to be careful, but I think just doing an honest job from the heart cannot be wrong, even if you make mistakes, even if you mix up left and right or forget to do the whole second side of a flow, if you're honest and happy or like try to you know, if people can see that you're passionate and can feel your passion for what you're doing, you cannot really go wrong, no matter how nervous you are. Great advice. I love it. You know, it's on that topic of language and lack thereof. Do you find that say, how many, first of all, how many languages do you speak and or feel like you've you've taken an honest, good effort at so Slovak is my mother tongue, and English and German are the foreign languages that I speak. Amazing. Amazing. Then we had a little, a little what European, uh huh, you know, it's like, polish is quite similar. Czech is very similar. So, yeah, let's check somewhat Polish some Spanish, but, you know, understood mostly English and German. What is, what is your feeling when you are limited in Word craft, like limited in your language ability. Do you feel that sometimes that almost enhances your teaching, because you speak maybe more from a body language and the emotive language, like you're speaking of like having your overall vibe be I'm I'm feeling pretty good. I'm happy. I'm happy to be here. I'm happy you're here, like, that type of thing. What is your experience when you don't have the language for it? Do you feel like you can still be just as effective? No, actually, I think language is super important, and also you need to feel comfortable in the language. So for example, when it comes to teaching yoga, although English is not my native tongue, I learned most of the stuff about yoga, mindfulness, spirituality and everything in English language. So I have the terminology and I can talk about these topics related to yoga, etc, the best in English language, because in Slovak language, for example, it just feels a little awkward. And people even use many English words because we do not have an adequate translation for that for them. So I prefer to teach mostly in English, in German and Slovak, I can give the instructions well enough, but I feel like it is really important to as yoga teachers, I think it's really important to be able to have a certain level of clarity of expression and and lightness of expression and eloquence, so that like what comes to my mind right now is poetry. Like you, I have noticed and experienced teachers being almost little poetic in their classes. And of course, you don't want to slip into this cliche, you know, yoga quotes that swim around in the space of yoga, but I really appreciate when people can be skillful with the way they talk. Yeah. So I think it's really important for teacher to be able to talk nicely. And of course, the energy is what speaks the loudest, but then the language is helpful. I agree. Great answer, yeah. I'm curious. I When was your first yoga experience? You mentioned already teaching at age 2122 Yeah. So how? What was your introduction to yoga? How did you come across it? I used to play tennis since I was five, until my late teenage years, and then I stopped, and I needed to balance out my body, because it was just destroyed after so many years of the sport. And it was either swimming or yoga, as recommended by my by my doctor, and I just don't really like pools and fluorine water. So I was like yoga, it is, and I had no idea. And my first yoga classes that I attended were when I was 18. It was Iyengar, and it was very slow. And this was in what 2011 or 12, and at that time, yoga studios in Bratislava, Eastern Europe, not developed like yoga has not arrived to Slovakia at that time. It was not like in New York or in other places. So we had a handful of studios, and the like, the people coming to the classes were mostly in their like, mid 50s, 60s. And then there was my mom, who was in her 40s. And then me and my brother, me 18, my brother 15. So I, I I felt a little it was like a funny relationship of I could not not go there, because something always pulled me in, but I was not in love with it. But there was like something I could not put into words, something I could not articulate or understand, but something that kept me returning back. It was not the asana, because the asana, I will just say, for me at the time, I thought it was very boring. I was a very athletic person, and doing, I don't know, a downward facing dog, did not feel a challenge for me. And that's what I understood at the time. Sport should bring you. Challenge. So that's what I was looking for. But actually what I found through the practice was this stillness. I remember. What I remember the most from the classes is shavasana, because I did not know the concept of doing nothing, like, okay, now I just lay and do nothing. What does that what does that do to me? This is what I do at night. I don't do it in the middle like in late afternoon. Was the point. I did not understand the concept of just relaxing, just being but that is what I remember the most, and this is what I kept coming back for. And I didn't know it at the time, but now I see it that that's I love hearing that experience with yoga, yeah, so cool. So then, where was there a AHA light bulb? I'm in love with yoga moment when you experienced a different style or tradition, yeah? I guess everybody has this aha moment at some point. For me, it came later, about three or four years after I first started practicing from Iyengar, I then moved to vinyasa and Ashtanga, and was a little more dynamic, and I liked it a little bit more, but I still like there was not this resonance. It did not click. I remember both of my first teachers in the studio in Slovakia and my second teacher in Vienna. They were ladies, again, in their, like, mid 50s, and they were so happy. And I was like, That's suspicious. Why are you so happy? I did not understand at all. Believe you, yeah, sounds like there's something going on which I don't know about, and it still did not click. It clicked when I practiced with a teacher with and she Italia sutra is her name on social media, maybe you're aware of her wonderful teacher, and was extremely challenging the asana, and that's what I needed at the time, because I needed to be challenged, because the only thing I knew was being challenged. So I thought that's, that's where the practice is happening. So I found this level of intensity of asana practice, and I was like, Yes, that's it. And through that, I like it. Slowly, I remember saying to myself that I want to do this every day, because the level of fulfillment it gives me is just incredible. And I did it for some period of time every day, and I think that's when it clicked. Like through the intensity of an asana practice, I discovered parts of myself, in the body and in the mind that I didn't know were available. I thought I was already a fully formed person with like this is what you can do. This is what you cannot do. And then through the asana practice, as I explored it, I learned actually, neither of my ideas, of my body or of my mind are not true. I'm still exploring myself. I'm still becoming so. What could I become? What could this be? What could I find through practice? And then a friend of mine asked me to teach him some of the yoga that I was doing because he saw it, I think I posted something maybe on Instagram, and he's like, that's so cool. I want to learn. So I showed him, and that's when I first started teaching, before having my teacher training, just one person, and then another friend joined. And then I thought, this is pretty awesome. This is extremely fulfilling, sharing the thing that I'm passionate about with others. And it rippled from there. Nice. Sarah, that's so cool. I like that. I like the discovery that you're talking about, of feeling like I'm a fully formed individual, and then having those doors open up, of like maybe I'm not. And then when you ask the question of, so what am I to become? That's a cool question. That's a great question. Who are you to become? Who am I to become? What lays ahead for me? So then the first time you mentioned your passion, I've watched you like on Instagram share stories about your passion for bhakti. Was your introduction to bhakti? Kind of similar from from my I'm curious, actually, I want to hear your story first before sharing about my What was your like, your first impression when you saw someone about the harmonium singing? Do you remember what your first thought was? Yeah, I the first so the first time. I'm I'm trying to think back. I think there were times where I was in a situation where there was a harmonium present and we had the kirtan going on, but there was such block between me and music and emotional music that I did not even register it. But then in 2019 I believe, I co hosted a retreat with a good friend of mine, Alexia from Vienna yoga. Alexia, she's a wonderful yoga studio, and she she has a bhakti practice, and she brought her harmony with her, and we were in a circle, co hosting this retreat together. So I could not not be there. And she started to lead a kirtan. And immediately I thought, oh my goodness, singing. My voice is not good, etc, etc. My thoughts are going in this direction. But then I thought, What the heck it's loud. The harmonium is loud. People are chanting at the same time. Nobody's gonna hear me, so I may as well sing. And then I started chanting. And I I was not going through anything emotionally burdening at the moment, but I remember I started chanting, and then I started crying, very soon after I started chanting, and I did not understand, and I felt such a sense of release after, and I just knew I needed to buy myself that instrument, and I had zero musical skills. I bought myself a harmonium, and I started to learn how to play it, just like very simple, very simple mantras and chord progressions, and I for the first year, I cried almost every single time I played something, I cried. And I think it's the resonance of the instrument, and it's the resonance of the sound of of the words I was chanting and and it's the fact that the throat has been blocked for such a long time, and there was so much judgment, self imposed judgment of my own vocal expression. So, so that was my introduction to bhakti, and yes, similar to yoga asana, though, I must say, with yoga asana, quote, unquote. I don't know if people will see the video, but air quotes, I was always kind of good with movement. If I say that way, I have been moving my entire life. I used to play tennis five times a week, and I have always like doing something with my body. Yes, it was challenging. But it's something I was used to. But opening the voice, it's different. You cannot push yourself there. You have to surrender, you have to open, you have to soften. So it was a different kind of journey, but extremely powerful, and that's what I for me more more powerful than therapy. I really sounds cliche, but it changed me. It changed how I how I talk, how I express myself, how much I allow myself to speak up to myself. I have never even allowed myself to scream. You know how they say screaming to the pillow, or scream when you're alone somewhere. I could not do it physically. And then after chanting, it takes something unlocked. So that's that's my introduction to it, that it rippled from there, nice, very cool. Yeah. How was yours amazing? I'm gonna say kind of similar, kind of very, very similar. I grew up in a Catholic home, and so when I heard church, chance, I always didn't know what they were singing because they were in Latin, and I never really connected with it. And I never, I mean, I just didn't feel a lot of inspiration going when I was a kid. So I kind of built up a little bit of residue about, like, what the heck is going on here? What are we even doing right now? Like, that kind of stuff. And I didn't have, I didn't feel the emotion. It was just more distant. And so I was practicing with my teacher, Tim Miller Ashtanga Yoga in Encinitas, and I was preparing for his to do a second series teacher training with them. And prior to getting ready to go out there, I disloc to go to California. I dislocated a rib on my back, and I was in excruciating pain. And so when I was flying out, I thought this is going to be miserable. And it was, and I landed, and I was so miserable, but because I was also such an Asana orientated person, I thought I'm just going to push through this. I'm just going to push on through and I did worse damage, and I was really miserable. And so whatever day it was in the training, I was like, so. So emotionally torn up and just physically in pain. And Tim pulled out his harmonium to sing the hanamanchalisa, and like, my first reaction was like, Oh no, this reminds me of church, and I just don't feel comfortable. Something is like not working for me here. And then the floodgates just opened up, and I just started crying so intensely. And I just felt like I just like it was like a balm, like it was like a, like I had a wound, and that the war, the the sound quality of my teacher and the group singing, just I felt like somebody was applying, like a, like a heat, like a healing energy, or like a balm. Like I just felt like such an incredible release. And I had a similar reaction to you. I was like, Where can I buy a harmonium? And then I that was it. I just started learning. I was like, I dedicated myself to learning Hana manchalisa, which took me, like, years to memorize and to learn. And now we I chant Hana mancha Lisa regularly. Every Tuesday morning, I chant with the students in the here at the studio, and I absolutely love it. I think it's one of the best parts of the yoga. And I feel like I had such resistance to it, and then it became my most one of my most favorite parts of it. And I love that juxtaposition of how something we can be so repelled against can end up being like our most beautiful, graceful, like, most amazing tool. So I loved hearing your similar like, how you're like, I don't know. I don't know. Let me just give it a shot, and then boom, the emotion that comes. I don't think that every I don't know that. Does bhakti do that for everybody? Like, the more you because you get to travel internationally, and you get to teach. And what are you hearing, you know, from people? Are they? Are you seeing a similar experience for everyone? Or do you feel like it's like you just have to hit some certain point in your life where then it feels like a good thing to do and you and then you then approach it and take it on, like, if somebody just is still like, I don't care as much as you guys talk about it, I could care less about getting involved in bhakti yoga, it just doesn't resonate for me. What sort of advice can you give us listeners for taking the leap? I think the most important thing is being open minded in yoga practice. I think things cannot be forced. Nothing real can be forced, but you can be open and you can be receptive. And I think it also is an important skill of a yoga teacher to be able to wrap different pieces of information, whether it is related to bhakti or related to philosophy or really any concept, or Asana, for that matter, in a way that is digestible for the student. And I know that some things, some particular, let's say, melodies, or even more traditional Indian music and different ragas. If I was playing that in western classes, I think it would have not been received as well as more mainstream sounding melodies are and western music is very distinctive. Pop music is very distinctive in the chord progression. And I think if the chants are adapted to Western music, or if there is like an overlap of little bit of Western which the Western practitioner can then more easily digest, and the the idea and the spirit of the East, if it's merged, and if the teacher can skillfully bring these two aspects together, maintaining the tradition, but serving it in a way that can be received. Well, I think that's, that's the highest chance of of introducing things to other people, and yeah, and for students, I would just say, be open. Just be open. And if you know none of the bhakti and none of the philosophy and none of the other stuff is interesting to you and you want to learn only the asanas. It's wonderful too, because I believe everything happens in its in its good timing, in its due time, yeah, agreed, Yeah, agreed. There's one more thing I wanted to mention. Then I like, yeah, you brought up, yeah. Tell me. I think an experience I had, I used to work at one studio in Prague, Prague yoga collective, and especially couple years ago, it's a rocket yoga studio, so very short on their on their Asana, and I started teaching there, and I would bring to every single class my harmonium and many students did not know any chanting beyond own, and I was just very determined to to carve out at least 15 minutes of our 90 minute session for little introduction, little chanting, etc. And sometimes especially from men who are looking for quite athletic yoga, I would, I would see, like a little eye roll, like, Oh my God, and we're going to do the dead thing now. So what I did is that I I actually played English songs on harmonium, like Beatles or anything that that would somehow fit the theme. And the feedback I received from the guys was mostly that I have not like they have. They said they have not done this since kindergarten. They have not sung for decades. And and I think this also like helped to kind of break the barrier, because it's not only about the foreign language, which is Sanskrit when we chant this devotional chance, but sometimes it's about just singing, singing itself, like opening the mouth and releasing the voice. So English chanting was a little like middle step on the way towards chanting. And I know they really appreciated it, yeah, because it was one, one thing to Yeah. It made it easier in some cultures, and now I spend a lot of time in Indonesia. So Indonesia, India, different cultures singing. It's part of like, mainstream, modern culture, and not just perfect singing. Like people come from their farms and they unite with their neighbors and they just sing the whole evening. We don't do that in the West like it's so foreign to us. So I think especially Western practitioners, need a little more guidance when it comes to music, especially if they're not musically oriented. And great point, I love that you're bringing all this up so cool. I think you're right. I like the emphasis on if we just had singing night. And yeah, and, you know, still, I think it would be a challenge for me to get folks to show up if I announce on my class schedule, eight o'clock, Wednesday night, singing night. I just, you know, like, you know, like, you have a great idea about teaching a class, and you put it all together, and then no one shows up. And you're like, maybe my idea, but this is awesome. Yeah, this can be the best it's gonna take off. And you're like, you show up. You're the only person. I read something so fascinating recently about the Reformation. I'm trying to brush up on my history, so I was reading about the conflict in Ireland between the Catholics and the Protestants, because I'm always curious, like, why in the heck are two people from the same religion fighting? That doesn't make sense. So then I picked up a book called The Reformation, and it's going super deep on like the 15th century and 16th century, and I guess at the time when people were getting a little disgruntled with the Catholic Church and the idea of the Pope that they started like Luther or Lutheran, the Mr. Luther started challenging the church. And the this author is saying that part of the reason that the Protestants made so much ground is because they made singing possible, because they created more happy and accessible chord structures, and they embraced the ability for people to take up singing so like and not even like. What I was saying in terms of hearing these songs in Latin, these like, really kind of like, drone like, which, interestingly enough, because you made mention, I know I'm jumping all over the place, but you made mention about this, the tones of the sounds like, for like, most of the Shiva mantras are sung like an A minor or like, in a minor chord. So it has this kind of, like, I don't want to say like, depressing, but it like, it can take you into an emotive place that's a little more somber, or a little more like, maybe, which fits the whole Shiva idea perfectly, I think, right, like, so I just find that fascinating. And you just kind of proved, you're proving this theory on some level, that if we can make the musical element, approachable and accessible that will have far greater success than if we just stick to the traditional. But I like that you're also moving it in the direction of the traditional. If people are opening open to it like you're actually doing enough study to know the difference between a pop song and a traditional Sanskrit mantra, or Sanskrit kirtan. Can you speak a little bit about what you've learned along your journey in relation to this, in terms of, like, what, in terms of the traditional What are you gravitating toward these days? What. Mantra and or which deity seems to be speaking to or calling to, or are you calling to? It's Shiva, definitely like now that you're now that you're talking about him. So coincidentally, it is Shiva. But I will say, for me, there's always a mantra for a period of time, I try to go to kirtans often, if they're if I'm in the area where they are happening. I try to go every week, and I yeah, like I noticed that it's not with every mantra that I that it hits this spot within me that really resonates, and it cannot be forced, of course. So I would even try to look for, for these types of mantras within a kit. I was like, okay, when is the song gonna come that really, you know, hits it. It may happen, it may not happen, but it changed over time. The first one that deeply resonated with me was madurga, the Krishna Das is version, and I did not know much about that. Is a beautiful one, isn't it beautiful one. Yeah, and I remember at the time, I did not know much my thought like mythology and stories about Durga. I have not read Debbie mahatmya Before the time, so I didn't know. But now that I look at things in retrospect, I know that I was connecting with that mantra the most because I needed to step into my because Kali and Durga represent this like fierce feminine energy, the one who stands up when something is sends up against unrighteousness, the one who protects herself, who allows herself to be heard. And that is exactly what I was looking for and wanting to learn on a psychological level at the time. So now I understand why that was so important to me. And then some time passed, and I remember the whole, I think it was 2022 the whole year of 2022 I would listen to mahamantra, and I would play Mahamantra Hare Krishna and I had a lot of baggage with that mantra, because I would see Hare Krishnas when I was I was little, and they would just dance and chant through the city. And I thought those are weird with their weird outfits and weird instruments being so happy and selling books I could not understand. But then I connected with Mahamudra on an extremely deep level, and it gave me, it opened up my heart, literally. So I think, yeah, for me, it's a journey of of being open and seeing what comes. And I understand that it cannot be forced. And sometimes, when I'm in this period between like, between the mantras, when one kind of does its job and I have not connected with another one, I'm looking for something. But then I need to remind myself to just be patient and it will come. And now for some time, it has been like anything related to Shiva, about a year and a half, or almost two years ago, year and a half, I spent one month in an ISKCON, had a Krishna ashram in India, and you spend how long one month, nice, nice, yeah. And isn't that incredible? I mean, I totally, I totally agree with you upon first inspection. You know, how could the Western mind not criticize the robes, the haircuts, the chanting loudly in the streets. And we're often taught to criticize cultures that are, well, I'm not saying maybe not you, but I don't know. Sometimes we're taught it seems like this is a worldwide thing. Yeah, it doesn't fit in my box. Doesn't fit my box. So, oh my gosh, I know my first introduction to kirtan chanting. I was 18, and I was at University of Florida in Gainesville, and there's a big Hardy Krishna ISKCON community that lives in an area called Alachua County out in North Florida. And I got the full introduction. Oh man. It was so great. I loved it. I loved it. It was incredible. Waking up really early in the morning and chanting Hare Krishna and the japa mall is out in the forest, and just everybody walking together in the woods and chanting silently, was so cool. And then the kirtans in the temple reading of the Bhagavad Gita. Now. So to be in India, because obviously, ISKCON devotees that don't, there's a lot of push for making a pilgrimage to India if you're an ISKCON devotee, and it's a big dream come true to make it to India. For any Westerner that becomes an ISKCON devotee, you got a chance to go to India. Did you go to Vrindavan? Were you in Vrindavan, like the birthplace of No, unfortunately, no, I was not in Vrindavan. I was, do you know Radhanath Swami? Yeah. I don't know him personally, but I've read, I read his book, The Journey Home, yeah. So I also read his book, journey home. I fell in love. Like, the story amazing resonated deeply with me. And also I read journey within and away with that. Well, Wait, which one is his second book? The first one is where he describes his journey, like when he was still teenager, hippie, and then he would hitchhike. Yes, I read that. Okay, I haven't done the within one. All right, thank you for telling me. So that is about bhakti. And then one was very deep. Anyway, I found out because many of the like many people who I admire, many writers who wrote stuff that I admire and resonates with me, unfortunately, many of them have passed away. And I learned that radharat Swami was still alive. And I was like, Oh, my God, he's still alive. Where is he? And I learned that he has this whole village that he built, Govardhan echo village, and it's three hours away from Mumbai. And then, coincidentally, another teacher that I really look up to, Raghunath capo. Maybe you know of him as well. He's from the States, Raghunath kapo. He's also in ISKCON. And he also just released the book from punk to a monk. He used to be a punk. I think it would be really cool for your podcast, by the way. Yeah, I'm gonna send you the info. Yeah, so he held like a cultural immersion, slash teacher training at Govardhan, and brother was gonna be there, and I just signed up. And nice, yeah, it was nice. It was beautiful. So I still really wanted that one. Did you have any, let's write where to say this, not pressure from ISKCON, but did you have any either internal desire to become a renunciate, or did you receive any questions from fellow renunciates Or, or, I guess fellows maybe like a such a male word, but you get the idea like your other Yeah, do that to become a renunciate. Did you? Did it ever cross your mind? Did you think about, oh my gosh, I could just stay here. I'll just stay here and become a hare krishna devotee. Did it? Did it cross? Yeah, that's that's a really good question. Actually, it was a big thing, a little like with renunciation, a little bit. But so I signed up because I because I knew of raghanath, and I knew of Radhanath Swami, and both of them have shared things that extremely inspired me, and I knew I want to be in close proximity to them, so that's why I went. But I did not know a lot about ishkon and what it what it is and what is devotee life includes, and I was maybe one of five people out of a 60 person group who was like that. So many people that I met during the training were celibate in celibate marriages or celibate, single devotees doing their their rounds of japamala. I think the 16 rounds of japamala a day and reading Bhagavad Gita and celebrating Prabhupada and the whole thing. And I must say, at the beginning, they were, I must say, the entire time, extremely nice, respectful, helpful, and nobody pushed me to anything or said anything, but I knew I had this internal conflict where I felt a little like I don't, I don't fit in, because I have not said yes to something so many people, the majority, said yes to, and they're completely convinced. And for me, I'm open to hear about it, but I cannot say that my heart is there. And I remember I really tried to give it a shot. And I was doing my my jack Mala in the morning,

walking to satsang at 5: 56:01

30am and I was like, Hare, Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare. But then, when I stopped concentrating, it automatically went to Om Namah, Shivaya. Yeah, which is my, I don't know, just like something that resonates with me. So I was there, and I was like, Why am I always sleeping? Back to home, namasivaya. I want to continue. And now I want to open myself up to this, so many great people that I inspire, that I'm inspired by believe in this. So there must be something in there for me, and it gave me a lot, I must say that my heart, my heart is elsewhere, and later on, after this experience, I discovered Kashmir Shaivism and non dual Shaiva Tantra. And that is like that just resonates 100% that's yeah, because I read the Bhagavad Gita and even Patanjali Yoga Sutras, and they are incredible texts. However, my heart connects better to something different, yeah, so in which case you you're recognizing your Ishta, devata, your personal you're starting to, like, actually go, Oh my gosh, this might, this is, this is where I'm at home. This is what speaks, Yeah, isn't that cool? Slowly, it's crystallizing it, yeah, no. But it's just automatically, like, whenever, for example, I get a little nervous when the plane is taking off or landing, what my mind does automatically is on the mash, just on repeat in the moments when I feel the most like, when the rational mind just stops working and you're back in the most like, primal ways of behaving and thinking when I feel afraid or when I feel like I want connection, it goes to towards that for me, and it just somehow crystallized in that direction over time, yes, and the right teachers came. Then I discovered amazing author and teacher, Chris Wallace Harish, maybe, you know, he brought country illuminated. Oh, I have that on my wish list. I haven't done it yet, but definitely recommend back in your 100% okay, so good. All right, that was very illuminating for me. I need to go back in that direction. I've been reading so many heavy like geopolitical books lately that I'm like, I need more yoga books right now? Yeah, oh my gosh, that's so cool, Sarah. I am so excited to meet you. I really enjoy hearing your stories. I love meeting fellow yoga travelers that that are that you are, you're you're going for it, and really trying to learn and get into the the heart of it, but then you're also listening to your own heart and able to navigate, knowing when to how to how to even navigate all that, such an incredible journey that is, that is amazing. That's what's so cool. I I don't want to go down this track, but I also have to just interject that for me, when that question came up, are you going to commit? Are you going to commit to becoming a devotee? I think a couple of different issues came in. One of them, though, as I started hearing some of the grumblings amongst the lay folk about the politics, it definitely caused me to go, oh, okay, I'm out of here. You know what? I think when I started hearing some of those stories, I was like, Oh, that doesn't feel good for me. But I don't mean any disrespect. That was just my own personal how so I know we're getting close to our time having okay, I know we scheduled an hour together. Have so many more questions for you, so I just want to make sure I have something we can do. A part two, thank you, because I'm having really good chat with you. Thank you. I have to ask, how are you navigating yoga politics? Like, how do you like, I don't want to take you down, like, actual country politics right now, because that's like, a crazy subject, but more like, you know, for example, you hear about a little bit of something or other that went down with someone, between this teacher and the students and that type of thing, and you're just like, oh, that doesn't feel good. That doesn't seem right. What is your method for navigating? Because that's a real that's a real issue, I think, as a yoga practitioner, when we start getting a little bit deeper into this, like, at first we step into Asana class, and we're like, this is awesome, or maybe it took a while, but we get to this point where we're like, we love it. And as we go deeper, we also might encounter some cult like scenarios in the yoga world. What has been your journey in relation to making sure you stay true to yourself? Yeah, that's a good question. I remember when I did my teacher training, then officially, and I started to make yoga into a business, and I thought, now I'm in the yoga business, and everybody's going to be honest, and everybody's going to wish me well, and it's going to be just the best possible. A place to work at, and it is an amazing place to work at, but in the end, people are still people, and I am a human and and people that I work with, and people So inevitably, we are going to fall into ignorance in different ways. And for me, yeah, both sided, of course, and for me, I think it is important. I'm trying to think because I never had an agenda. I never had a plan. I never, I don't know, but what I remember is when I read the book journey home by Radhanath Swami, and he eventually ends up joining ISKCON and becoming a Krishna devotee. But most of the book, most of his journey, is about meeting different teachers, and ultimately, until he becomes an A Christian devotee. He always returns back to like, hey, that teacher is not for me. I need to listen to my teacher within. And I believe it's extremely important to have an external teacher. But I really like this sense of like, nobody's going to save you, like not even the teacher is going to save you. And I think that's what I wanted at the beginning. I remember when I first got very serious about yoga, I wanted to find my teacher who would answer all of my questions and that I could always rely on that could, in a way, save me. And for the longest time I would not meet this person, and I think this taught me to always come back to myself like not expect that everybody will save you and know that people are people, and not in a sad way people are people. They're gonna disappoint you. But more like, let's celebrate it. Let's celebrate that people are people. Yeah, yeah. People are people. Then, you know, and the teachers and because ultimately, what we're trying to connect to to something larger, to love, to something divine, which can be found really anywhere, not just in one person, not just in one group, and maybe a group supports this journey, but maybe a group does not support the journey, and maybe who supports the journey is not in any way formally practicing yoga. So I think it's important to keep the eyes open to where is this teaching coming from? Like the guru removing darkness. Where is that coming from? Is it my child? Is it my mom? Is it my brother? Is it the random person? Is it this book? Is it the song, like, what is it? Oh, great questions. Yeah. Thank you. That's cool. Thank you so much, Sarah, what a pleasure. I had a feeling as this was going to be really fun. So thank you for bringing that to reality. Is there, is there any thing that, concept, idea, message, that you want to close with that you feel it's on the forefront of your dream and ambition. For for those of us listening like what? What pops in your head? We talked about the Colibri spirit Festival at the beginning, and I, a guy played a song, just one song, and it was called stay open to life. And I think it's a very nice, very nice thing like stay open. Stay open to what comes be open to learning things you feel weirded out by that you know, just stay open you you don't know. So I think that's my my parting message, stay open to how life will unfold and and celebrate it. Yes. Oh man, thank you, Sarah, what a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much. I look forward to hearing feedback from the listeners, and this has been an honor, and thanks for making time for us. And I look forward to you mentioned part two. I was going to mention it before you did, so hopefully we can schedule and and we'll keep it going. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you amazing questions. And yeah, I'm looking forward for it. Thanks so much to come out and to listen to more episodes cool. And if you ever want to run a studio, and my wife and I will take a little break come to Florida, you can try it out for a week and to see you know, maybe you're like, No. Okay, thank you. Love All right. Thank you, Sarah, thank you. Have a beautiful day. Thank you. Native yoga. Todd, cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen, if you like this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com, and hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends. Rate it and review and join us next time you well, you know, you.