Andrew Jones - Being Love: Embracing Compassion and Gratitude in Everyday Life

Andrew Jones is a yoga teacher and practitioner who plays a vital role in Dharma Mittra's yoga teacher training. He met his wife, Pam Jones, at Dharma Yoga Center in New York City. Andrew has been practicing yoga for many years and has transitioned from working in advertising to dedicating his life to yoga. He has worked at Dharma Yoga Center, help running the studio and teaching classes, and has been involved in teacher trainings for over 15 years. Andrew is also involved with an organization called Study Yoga, which offers online yoga programs and journeys for individuals looking to integrate yoga into their lives.

Visit Andrew on the Dharma Yoga Center website: https://www.dharmayogacenter.com/
Also at Yoga Study: https://studyyoga.com/our-guides/

Key Takeaways:

• Andrew Jones found peace and a sense of calm through practicing yoga at Dharma Yoga Center, which led him to become a teacher and eventually work at the studio.
• He plays a vital role in Dharma Mittra's yoga teacher training and has been involved in teacher trainings for over 15 years.
• Andrew emphasizes the importance of finding balance between business and yoga, as well as the need to prioritize personal practice and self-care.
• He discusses the power of community in yoga practice and the benefits of creating a supportive and inclusive environment for students.

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Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin Hello, and welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. My name is Todd McLaughlin, and I'm so happy that you're here. Please check out the previous episode with Pam Jones. Because this week I have Andrew Jones, her husband. I'm so excited to have the opportunity to interview both Pam and Andrew here at Native Yoga Center. And you can find Andrew on his website, dharmayogacenter.com. He plays a vital role in Dharma Mittra's yoga teacher training. And you can find information about him on dharmayogacenter.com website. You can also check out the work that Andrew is involved in with a organization called Study Yoga, and you can find him at studyyoga.com as well. I really enjoyed this opportunity to speak with Andrew. He really has a keen eye and ear for listening. And he asked me a couple of questions along the way that I was so glad that he did. This is such a great opportunity, personally, to get to interview Andrew, and I'm so excited that you are here and ready to listen. All right. Well, on that note. Let's begin. I'm so happy to have Andrew Jones here in the studio with me today. Last week, you got a chance to meet his wife, Pam Jones. And now you get to meet the other half. Andrew, thanks for being here. Is that. Is that intimidating? To follow Pam. Follow power. Well, first of all, thank you. It's a huge honor to be here. Thanks for us. Thank you so much. It really is a pleasure to meet both you and now this opportunity. Let me just jump right in Andrew, you get a chance to study and practice with Dharma Mittra. And you have your links on his website, which is can you tell me again, what the yoga center.com Dharmayogacenter.com So people can find you there? What role do you play within the Dharma Yoga Center organization? Well, I mean, it's first of all, in terms of finding dharma. The journey was kind of interesting in the sense that I didn't do yoga at all, till I was probably in my 40s. But coming in contact with Sri Dharma mittra, there was an instant connection of peace. And so from practicing there for many, many years, became a teacher. They're taught at least six, seven times a week there, even while I was working full time, and then slowly transitioned and worked there running the studio for about three and a half, four years till the pandemic hit. And I've been doing teacher trainings for 15 years or so. So the faculty as Pam is, and we're very honored to serve when they need us. Wow, that's cool. That would be fun. That'd be fun running, running a teacher training I would imagine for or helping Dharma, run the training, it's it's amazing experience actually, because, you know, we get to practice with Dharma, while also, you know, helping the students who come in because they learn different sequences, different Pranayamas, meditations, and so forth. So we get to kind of have a small group and kind of mentor in the small group. And then they all teach, which is really good. Fun, you know, they teach their small groups, so we're there to kind of support, give feedback and kind of like, help them, you know, find that connection with dharma as a teacher. It's yeah, it's very beautiful experience. Nice. That's amazing. Where did you impair me? Pam and I met at Dharma yoga. So you're from England as well. I'm from Wales, actually. Just to clarify on the different Sorry, I wasn't. I should have known better. I should. I should be careful. where I put my foot. Yeah, that's cool. So you guys met in New York City then? Yeah, it's really interesting, actually. Because basically, Pam, I don't know. I'm sure in her story told you how she ended up in New York City. Yes, I was in New York City work in advertising for a good old 20 years. And yoga wasn't part of my path. I had friends who had practice yoga. But my life hit a huge Crossroads at one point, from working too much enjoying life too much in New York City, and I kind of imploded. And I was asked to go and see a psychiatrist. And my sister said, I think you should do yoga. And so basically, it was a kind of beautiful moment where I was in the elevator of my apartment in New York City, and there's a lady with a yoga mat. And I go, where do you where do you do yoga? And she goes, dharma. And I'm like, Excuse me, what's what's Dharma because I had no idea what that was. And she said, he's at the end of the block. So that's how I ended up in Dharma yoga, and, and then after practice for many years, Pam and I were very serious about practices. And we weren't really going out socializing or do any of those things. But we knew each other for several years. And then the time was right. So very cool. Together. Amazing. So if you're in your 40s now, and you've been working in New York for 20 or so years, and I'm guessing you left Wales in your early 20s, I went to New York when I was 32. Gotcha. Worked in London for 958 right now. Wow. Yeah. Nice. Nice. And can you tell me a little bit about what it's like working in the advertising world in New York City that caused you to implode? Yeah, well, fun and a lot of work though. So yeah, yes. I mean, it was kind of interesting. Because I wanted to live in America. I did my undergraduate degree in in the University of Miami years ago. Oh, cool. I wanted to come back. I had a lot of friends you and I wanted to play music. That was the one of the key poles and I had a lot of friends in Nashville to play music. And so for what do you play, I play guitar. Now do kurta which is more way more fulfilling than probably what we did before. But yeah. But I wanted to go to Nashville. And because I worked in advertising, London, people were saying, Well, you can't come and work in Nashville, you should be working in in New York City or minimum Chicago. And so they were like, you know, we can't help you with a with a visa or so forth. So I just ended up going to New York and cold calling there, showed my you know, my portfolio and so forth and ended up with a job there. And I thought it was going to be a bit more mellow than London, because London is quite, you know, renowned for advertising in late hours. New York was like on steroids. Yeah. So, but it was an amazing experience. I ended up working on MasterCard for for many years, we launched that prices campaign around the world. So I got to experience amazing things going to China to India, to South America. But after a lot of travel, it kind of got to the point I was thinking that beautiful thing not that this was anywhere in the same comparison as George Harrison, but you're kind of exposed to so many things, but nothing's bringing you any peace. And so I was getting more more stress jetlag so I started drinking, I was taking drugs, anything to try and remove the stress level. Yeah. And then it got to a point where nothing seemed to be able to get that inner peace or that calm that. Yeah, yeah, doing yoga. We strive for it. Yeah. So that it was an amazing experience. But it kind of hit a point where enough was enough, however, to your question, it's kind of interesting. I said to dumb, I'm gonna leave advertising, I'm gonna be a yogi full time he goes, Why? Why would you say he just kind of like send a yoga is in your life, and you're calm and flowing. And he said, you can bring a lot of beautiful vibration to many people in the advertising world and your clients and so forth. I worked on Nestle foods for, I think, a good five or seven years. And it was amazing from that transition. And studying the yogic path, and changing diet, breathing and all those different things that suddenly people were asking, How come you're so much calmer than you were before? What are you doing on? Stress? Can you help? So I'd like clients would ask me, we talked about breathing exercises. And then we started talking about maybe some vegetarian lines that they could put out. So it was really cool. I mean, it was so and he said, when the time is right, the flow will take you to where you need to go nice, but don't push it, just go with it, but bring the yoga to what you're doing right now. So I thought that was beautiful. But yeah, I was very confused. That's classic. I can imagine. Do do you miss it? Well, do you now integrate your marketing skill in relation to helping Dharma with the studio and or the teacher training? Do you feel like you're able to integrate these two together? Are you working? Are you working as like a professional marketing person anymore? Have you been able to let that go and let yoga be your full time profession? Chun is great question. So for that when I joined the Dharma yoga center and worked there full time, then I did bring the marketing skills. And of course, it's a different animal. In terms of smaller business, you know, you don't have huge budgets, you're not traveling around the world, you've got to kind of like, ask favors, get a little bit kind of grubby and get things done. Yeah. But it was really good, fun. And up until the pandemic, you know, it had been a really amazing experience doing that, helping with check, we got a new website that was put up, we worked things that how you could create a funnel, you know, in terms of like creating demand and retaining the students and so forth. So we did a lot of that stuff. And then to answer your question, the second level of that was, about two years ago, during the pandemic, we were asked if we would go to Asheville yoga center and run the Asheville yoga center. And we were hoping that it was gonna be a little bit more on the on the teaching side. But they had a big need to create business plans, marketing plans, so I kind of got sucked back into doing that, which was fine. And it was beautiful B people. So it was a real honor to help. Yeah. But I've got to a point now where it's a little bit more like, if people need it, I help but it distracts away from some of the practice. And it was finding that it was just it was kind of like changing the vibration a little bit. The balance was getting out of sync. So it was becoming all business and less yoga. Yeah. And I think it's a good question for you, actually. Because I think it's very hard for teachers to find a balance between the two. Yes. Because if you're chasing numbers, suddenly you're not doing it with this notion of surrender, you know, it's becoming a little bit expectation kind of thing. Oh, yeah, big time. I mean, there's a lot of pressure in relation to holding down brick and mortar space, the, the overhead, and then you know, when you add up the amount of time that you need to actually be offering classes and actually teaching, the amount of time we can spend practicing is obviously less so. Absolutely. I mean, that is a big challenge, for sure. constant constant balancing effect going on there. But that's why I enjoy meeting people like you and Pam who are working in this field that are have the professional background because one thing I definitely noticed within the yoga world is that there is a little bit of lack of professionalism. Sure. And so whenever I meet somebody who has and or is able to hold down professionalism and a career such as marketing, but also told you money just met me today. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Is that even true? Is this what I hope is possible? Pie in wishful thinking here? Yeah, constantly. I'm there's times where I feel like the more I let go of worrying about trying to have a perfect yoga practice, and just surrender wholeheartedly to just keeping the Studio open and making sure that's going I feel like that is my practice now. And so I, I tend to, I struggled a lot with this in the past was like, Oh my gosh, I gotta get up at four. So I can practice until 630. And then I can start teaching and but then I burned myself out so much. So now if I get a chance to do a couple cat cows with the group, I'm like, This is good. You know, this is good. I love that. You said that. Cuz you're totally right. When we were in Nashville, you got pretty full on and you're trying to squeeze your own personal practice. And then you start modifying, then you realize that everything is the practice after that. But yeah, Tom always used to say to us that sometimes the actual teaching is the practice. Yes. So one of the things I think that's very important for all of us is that if we're going out onto the mat to teach folks, then we've got to walk the walk. Yeah. And so it's finding that balance where you're not losing, you know, the the vibration that you've been working on on your planet, you know, it's kind of like find that balance, but I love it that I love that you say that your this is your job, your role, right? Yeah, space to help people. Yeah, beautiful. Yep. Agreed. Thank you. I appreciate that. Can you speak a little bit about the other organization that you're involved with, which is study yoga.com? Well, how did what is that and how did that come about? Yeah, it's an interesting one. It's a lady called Mirror who, who practiced that dharma yoga, and she wanted to create an online yoga experience, but not basically the same thing as doing zoom classes. She wanted to create journeys for people, whether they are athletes, or whether they're people who are stressed out or people who have imbalanced in their lives. And so she's put together these programs or journeys that go back, I guess, four to six weeks, I think. And you sign up and you do you have a program built for you each week. Yes. And you can get feed back, you can have some live classes, but you have recorded classes. And she's done a really beautiful job pulling it together. So I think she's launching it in in mid March, I think his role is she's done a lot of research about how to help people. I think the thing that for me about yoga is sometimes accessibility, and how you can sustain it because, you know, we get bombarded with so many different Yoga, you know, options these days, or fitness or wellness options. And I think sometimes it's a bit overwhelming for folks. I mean, I remember doing my first yoga class, I don't know about you, but I'm just like, petrified. Where do I put my shoes? Should I have socks on? Should I be? Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. What kind of Matt, you know, yeah. So the idea is that this will help people to just integrate yoga into their life without on that scared. Yeah. And that's good. Because you know, they've got these recordings, so they can do them where they live. They set their own goals. Yeah. And then they can monitor the goals. So you know, we want people to try and achieve something to help improve their lives. But it doesn't have to be all the way up here. It could be something here depends on your life, and how much you're cramming into your life. We all know, mums who've got kids sort of guys or moms who are working as well isn't it's a lot of stuff. Yeah. So it's trying to find something that's palatable, accessible. And then it's poses breathing, knowledge, diet, there's a huge kind of, it's not just one aspect. So it's kind of like a little journey that, and also, it's very much about community. I think one of the things that we learned when we started our path with with Dharma was we did a Dharma yoga basics course and these to do this six week course. And you actually see the same people for six weeks, every Monday or whatever it is, and so that everything is broken down. So you're not rushing in. It's not like a normal class where you come in, and you just have to go with the flow. You can ask questions, and it gets broken down. And you're so you build a community, because you're all in it together. And then after that, it's like, Oh, hey, do you want to go to the first class together? You know, so yeah. really help people along? That's cool. That's a good idea. Yeah. That sounds creative. I like the fact that like you said, You guys are. So you've helped her in this development process? Or is it something that you're getting ready to help with? Have you been Have you played a part in the development of this platform? Yeah. So basically, she was looking for she was looking for three or four teachers. So we were very blessed to be one of the teachers, she asked us, Korea involved. And so she's, we were really lucky. She took us to Mexico films and Mexico, she filmed in London. So all the videos are really fun. So they're not, we have a friend called Pedro, who is filmed in Sheffield, with a horse showing horse pose, and then interacting with the animals and stuff. So she's trying to make it really? That's cool. I think it's kind of like, accessible. enjoyable. Yeah, there's, there's a big deeper meaning below, which is trying to find your inner happiness, you know, so it's kind of like trying to let people experience it for themselves. But it's, it's not kind of like, scary yoga kind of thing. Yeah, that's cool. You know, you made mention of when you were going through a tough when you were kind of reaching that point of maybe I'm maxing out on my work and business life, and someone had said that you should go seek talk therapy. And then your sister said yoga, did you pursue both paths? And then can you? Can you tell me if you feel like talk therapy helped you more yoga helps you more of both helped? What is your feelings on? Because I know what is your feelings on this in relation to I know from the men angle and the amount of mental health issues that are going on these days. And I liked the fact that you're just being honest and saying, Yeah, I needed to go and actually see a therapist. Can you give us a little bit of encouragement? If anyone if I'm listening and or those of you listening? Feel that you need that? Would you? Would you recommend it? Yeah, I think people should do what they feel on that heart is going to help them. And I think trying multiple things is also a good thing. Because sometimes we say you just do this or just do that. It's an interesting question is I did I think the psychiatrist for about six weeks, I did the yoga for six weeks. And I found that for me, personally, the talking was stirring up more stuff. Whereas what I was looking for was some stillness. And so the yoga really helped me in terms of finding some of that inner peace. Because I was doing breathing exercises in my diet changed a little bit. Doing some of these poses was releasing stuff. So but I think you know, at that time, I was having anxiety attacks and everything. So they both worked in their own way. Yeah, eventually the yoga for me. And also, you know, to find a teacher like Sri Dharma, you know, it's very blessed because just when you're in the vibration of a higher teacher like that, everything becomes stiff. Oh, I'll tell you funny story because the mind is a funny game. Funny Animals, you know, I'm sure from experience in your life. Yes. So I was like, Okay, so after about two months, obviously, I'm feeling pretty peaceful here. And part of the whole thing was an implosion with a relationship. And I was thinking, Oh, I'm not gonna do yoga tonight, I'm gonna go and see the ex girlfriend or whatever. And everything just imploded back to where it was. And I went running back to the studio going, hang on, you're not ready yet. To be out and doing these things. You've got to get your foundation strong. Yeah. And I feel that that's often the thing that I've done before. It's like, this band aid. It's something. But it hadn't got to the kind of crux of the issue. Yeah. And I found that continuous in continuing the practice. And I find that some ways you know, your yoga colleagues or Sangha, or community or whatever you want to call comes the people you talk to in a way. Yes, because you have this filiation vibration. That's the same, so, but I'd recommend if you talk, it's good. Yeah, it's good to talk. things out. Yeah. Good point. I do like talking. Thank you for listening to me. What do you want to tell me? I'd love to know. Are you a un native from here? Is this your? Well, I was I was born and raised here. Yeah. But that's a great question. And I? That's a good question. And that's a question I constantly ask myself in relation to choosing the name for our yoga studio to be native yoga center. I'm definitely not claiming that I'm a Native American, of course, because I have European ancestry. But I was born and raised here. So and I was living in California, and my wife and I were coming back. I was trying to think of a word that encapsulated what I'd hoped yoga, what I was my goal with yoga was and and I came when I heard the word, I saw another company that had to use the word native in it. And I thought, what does that mean? And I looked up in the dictionary, like the actual definition, it said, to become, to exist as one with nature. And I thought, that's kind of cool, because that's what I feel like my yoga journey was about attempting to come to my own true nature to you know, remove the veil of illusion or delusion. And so I really liked I thought, that's cool. I like that word. And, and I am going back to where I was born and raised. I don't know, I kind of believe in and I hope I don't offend anybody by saying this. But like an earth natives. Like I believe we're all we're all born here on planet Earth. And I feel like we're a little disjointed, at some levels. So I've I kind of have this dream that no matter where we land, if we get into our true nature, then we might feel at home and like we're in the place that we need to be. So I did try it. Yeah. So that was my intention, or my thought behind that, as opposed to like, claiming, like, native, but at the same time, I do want to claim it that I was born. You know, it's it's kind of beautiful, though. The way you described it, though, that the native, you know, like, the stronger thing he was. Yeah, we don't sense that vibration at all here. It's more of this peaceful connection. Yeah. Thank you, which Thank you, Dan, to you. And yeah. I don't know how that gets interpreted by people when they hear see it. I hope that it will make people think Yeah, I kind of question like, What does that mean? What would that mean? And I also really want to honor native culture and indigenous culture. And I know that's a hard thing. It can feel like a hard thing. Because of where I grew up. The town I grew up in is to questa, which is named after a tribe of its quest to Indians. And so growing up to Cuesta there were not quest Indians when I was growing up. And as a when I was in middle school in high school, and I started to think about this. It made me sad. Number one, because I just felt like, what the heck, what's that? What happened here? And then you start studying, you start reading about the history in North America. And I got really sad, super depressed. Really do yoga. That's how I got really depressed. Yeah. Not just because of that. There's other factors, of course. So I just feel like it's important to give credit to those cultures. And I just hope that that comes across the right way. And, you know, that's my that's my intention anyway, so I kind of ride with that. It's beautiful. I mean, Right and awareness, right? I think so. So Steven asked the question, yeah. But I'm really happy that you asked me that, because no one ever really has asked me that. In all these years, I've always I'm waiting for people to ask me. Why is it? Why do you call your yoga studio native yoga center? So I think it's an important question. And I think as we move forward as a human species on the planet, I do believe that we need to honor what the past what happened in the past, and at the same time, kind of acknowledge that here we are, what are we going to do moving forward? And the more we honor, being on the earth and and trying to embody truthfulness, and what yoga I feel like I have picked up from yoga. I also know there's a little bit of an element to it in relation to yoga that like what is a native yoga? What is a native yogi? Does that mean we have to be from India? Or have to be born in India to be a native yogi? Cool? Is yoga native to to India, and then quite possibly is. But there's a good chance other humans on the face of the earth were thinking about enlightenment and or connection to Mother Earth? Not just in India, I'm sure in Africa, he bought, right. I'm sure in Egypt. We don't really know how far like our human history, do we really understand and know, could we possibly, it's fascinating. So I mean, I know that brings up more questions. But what do you think? And I think after what I said, Well, look what you said no, that the the notion of ancient wisdom is there for a reason. And too often, we push it aside or ignore it. And I think the more that we tap into that, and listen, you know, elders always have great words of wisdom. And I think sometimes we forget about that. And that the yoga thing, I love what you said, because basically, dharma we all thought of, and if any of you folks have ever seen the 908 poster that he A, it's amazing. Most of us thought he was Indian. And he goes, I am Indian, but I'm from the Brazil, from Brazil. So it's, excuse me, it's just like this notion of name and form. Yeah, but the knowledge is passing through us. I love what you said, because there are so many different cultures that have that foundation and compassion, kindness, patience, with a view of finding that inner calm and peace. And it's just like all these different rungs of, of an umbrella that meet at the same endpoint, but we're so quick to judge or to compare. And we don't need to do that. And so I love all the stuff that comes from India. Don't get me wrong, it's all beautiful. But I also love when you read things about ancient Indians in Native America, or whether it's tribes in in Africa, or whether it's in South America, or even in even in England, you know, some of the Heritage there is there's some really deep stuff that goes on, you know, so, good point. There's a lot of wisdom that we have the opportunity to tap into these days, because the world is smaller. Yes, sometimes we forget it. Yeah, good point. Good point. Well said, thank you for bringing that up. I didn't want to talk about that. So I'm really glad you You went there. What, what are what is your hope and dream for your future as a yoga teacher? And I know that that's almost counterintuitive to what we're attempting to achieve where we if we're mentioning, being at peace with our true self in the moment, why would I even be concerned with the future? But do you have future aspirations in relation to your mission with teaching and or practice? It's a really interesting question, I think it's got to a point where what will be will be and you do your best to be there in those situations where it may manifest. But not having those kind of dreams, I think is a different kind of way of looking at it. So personally, we wanted to serve Dharma while he's here, because we feel he's given us so much. So much knowledge and kindness and opportunities. So we really want to be here for him and to spread yoga. So Dharma I, the thing I love about dharma as a teacher is is that he would never call it Dharma yoga. That was just a business thing that was done in the organization. To him, it's all yoga to your point earlier on, or it's all mentioned wisdom, or whatever it may be, you want to call it. So the goal is to help others. And so you know, he says, Well, I'm trying to give you what's manifesting through me, but what's manifesting through Todd or through Pam or the other beautiful teachers that you've had passing through? It all comes out slightly different. And the beautiful thing is, that means we can connect to lots of different people, because we're all slightly different have different qualities and tendencies. So personally is just like being there to help where we can. We never thought that we would do kirtan for example, I hope I said that right, because my script is not great. So I get slammed for that. But just ended up doing some of that recently, was a thing that we never thought we would do, because it was a bit intimidating, you know, should we be doing this? Yeah. But it opened another door in terms of helping folks and was a really beautiful experience. So to me, it's there's so many different avenues like how the hell did we end up here with with you, right? We just saw the native yoga, I felt there was a vibration there, we came here, we took your classes, which was beautiful, and we felt the vibration here was very nice. So maybe something will happen with you guys here. You know, we're still doing things with the study yoga, but the vibration feels right. So the aspiration is to help others. I think that's probably the best thing. While said, Good point, you know, and I liked that you brought up the question that arose of in relation to chanting, traditional or Hindu mantras. And that's a that's a really interesting one. Because you know, because we have so many different religions, so many different so many rules, we have so many different religions on planet Earth, that when people come in, I've been moving a little more toward attempting to keep it secular. But I love like chanting Hanuman Chalisa. And oftentimes, I will also ask myself, like, Well, I'm not Hindu. I wasn't born in India, and I'm not of Hindu descent. Is it okay for me to chant this? Right? Yeah. Like, is it? I mean, and then, but I have had a feeling when I first heard it, that it just, I was going through a really tough time emotionally, and it felt like it was like a bomb, like a soothing, kind of like, pointment, for my, just what I was going through. And Emotionally, it brought me to tears. And I felt like it did something in the moment, which got me really inspired to sing it. But sometimes I do second guess myself and say, Well, should I be doing this? Am I doing something disingenuous to the culture, by singing it not being from that culture. And I feel like some of that those questions are really prevalent, currently in relation to cultural appropriation and all those elements, but I keep falling back on that original feeling that I had. And then if I share it within a group of people that are coming to actually do that in that moment, and not just busting it out in my regular public, say, gentle yoga class where I have like a just nice, easy chill. Like I tried to keep that relatively secular. So I'm always kind of trying to dance that fine line of keeping it open to all religions, but at the same time exploring what's interesting to me in relation to these other religions. What What have you found in relation to that? I think what you're saying Todd was very beautiful, because you're, you're using your inner intuition about what the students will be good for them, right, from our own experiences. And one of the things that Dan was always taught us is that, you know, whatever we're seeing right now is coming through us based on our practices, the wisdom we've been involved in, the teachers we've been involved in, and then it comes through us the best we can give it. So it doesn't mean it's necessarily right or wrong. It's just it's the way it's coming through us. So in terms of like chanting, I love the way Dharma describe it to us because his English isn't great. And he goes, I'm not very good at the Sanskrit myself. And so he goes, but behind it is your faith around the vibration. So you know, the arm can be very intimidating to some folks. Yeah. And so as you probably do, in, you know, some of your classes, you talk about it being this eternal vibration, and taking away some of the loaded factors that are often you know, associated with certain mantras or names and so forth. So, and then it's really the experience of that vibration that makes you feel nice. So to answer your question, I remember when my father passed, he bless him, he had cancer. And Bob Marley was the only thing that because I didn't do yoga at that time, but Bob Marley had this really calming effect. That helped me through that time. And then subsequently when I heard that kind of go to the psychiatrist or go to yoga, or do both right, as you were asking earlier on, yeah, I went to my first class at dharmas, and it's beautiful to God. Adam Frey who's the director of the teacher training is a really lovely soul. be lovely if you could talk to him. But he, he played Krishna Das. And I'm like, What the hell's Krishna does I don't know what you know what the hell's Krishna mean, and what this does mean, and the hell is this guy singing but it was really calming. And for a period of time I stopped. I mean, I was a huge music lover, but I, I couldn't listen to music because it created emotions of trauma. Whereas those mantras because they've been sung for millions or 1000s of years, or whatever it is, I charged, and I find them really calming. And it helped me get to that place of peace. So it was a stepping stone. So if it helps people, me personally was like, I don't really know what it means. But it makes me feel good. Yes. And eventually, you know, if you want to go and look it up, right, but in some ways, there's something behind it. Yeah. I think you're right. It's a feeling it's a, like a conjuring up of love, a love feeling love vibration, while singing, that somehow that vibration comes through the singing, regardless of what the words are. Yeah, I'm doing it together. And I mean, first time I went to a Courtenay, I'm like, seemed really quiet. Everybody encourages you, right? And I remember going to see Krishna Das. And I was like, Should I shut my eyes shut? My eyes be open as people looking at me what your mind is doing all that crazy stuff. Yeah. But then suddenly it starts coming from within. And it really creates that notion of karma has. So yeah, I think music is very powerful emotionally. And it can take you many different directions. But when you have some of that trauma that's going on, there's something about some of these mantras, and I finally had the Hanuman Chalisa. It's a beautiful one. But that's quite intricate long. Was it five minutes if you do the whole thing, right? Or 15? Actually, yeah, if you're if you're playing and singing it, yeah. So it's a long thing. I remember doing Krishna Das. And he did. He did it, I think 108 times or whatever they do, all day. And yeah, by the end of it, you're like, Oh, that was That was intense, but super powerful, right, super powerful. But the arm to me is an amazing mantra. Like, we were always taught that do 12 ohms. And just think about being one with everything. Forget about any religious connotations, or, you know, the first thing that was taught to me that was very attractive was that we were taught that yoga is not a religion. And that for me having some experiences in my youth where, you know, religious things pushed me in funny directions. Yeah, I was okay. So let's get that that's off the shelf. And so now we can just do the practice. And it was like, okay, so I think there's some of those mantras have very powerful effect. Sometimes it's very much connected to Hinduism. But there's also the yogic component where it's, as you said, it's that vibration. Yeah, it's not so much about reading the whole book, or whatever it may. Yeah, good point. Good point, well said, I think that hits the nail on the head. Do you feel like you have to be somewhat wanting to be open to other culture, because sometimes what I find is, when there's a closing off to, you know, I shouldn't really explore other culture, because my culture is telling me that my culture is the only culture. And this is the best culture. But I think at some point to Welsh cult culture. Hopefully, at some point, we go, I want to know about these other cultures. I want to know about these other religions. I want to know what makes them tick. I want to, but I agree with you 100%. The first time I heard them say them is but when I heard said, yoga is not a religion, and I went, Oh, he finally, thank you. I think it's important to keep it that way. And that's why I do put effort into keeping the secular element of it as well, where it's having a peace sign on the wall versus a it's beautiful. A person could even mean that is a great universal symbol, right? I think so. I think so. And I will, I will die for peace. I see like an oxymoron. Definitely not gonna say I will kill for peace. That definitely does not fit together. But the cultural thing that I think is a really interesting why because part of the goal is you know, from your practice, is to tap into this oneness and not be in this realm of seeing everything different, and judging and criticizing and other things that we do on a day to day basis. So the notion is that I don't know if you've ever been to the Self Realization fellowship. For example, I have I have you know, we but it's a bit of that and they had Jesus up there and they had I can't remember the name of all palmata Yogananda and then la Hera mercy. Lahiri Mahasaya. Yeah, one of his gurus and Baba ji ji Baba Ji. And so that that notion is you've got Okay, so there's Eastern West mixing. Yeah. Which is amazing. They are going on to pull that off, like when I see the pictures of Yogananda giving speeches, and those black and white photos to Americans and what the 1930s already is. Yeah, I didn't want to I want to get that. Right. Thank you. You think how difficult would that have been to try to talk about Hinduism to that crew? That would have been but the way that he, I mean, that's next level in relation to what he could do by correlating Bhagavad Gita with Bible and with the Quran and seeing this and seeing what the essence of of each of each teaching was and correlating it. I know, isn't that beautiful? I mean, amazing, you know, amazing. Incredible agree. Wow. And you I want to keep going, yet we're on a thing called a schedule. Yeah. Pull you that. I gotta reel you in here. Have a feeling we could have gone a little further out. We could have explored even further out there. And would you be willing to come back on again, and I'd love to have both you and Pam back on again. And we can continue the conversation. This has been a real treat. We'd be honored. I want to know more about you too. And your experiences. I think it's really fun having this back and forth discussion. Yeah. Thank you for the honor. I have to ask you this question in the attempt to close the same one that as Pam. And hopefully it's not too heavy. But if today was your last day on earth? What message would you want to send us Earthlings? This was my last day on earth. This is it? This is this is the final? I mean, it's like not Yeah, not to have the action of love, but be love. See yourself and others see yourself in this planet. And be grateful for what we have. And let's make it a beautiful place that it should be because it has all the potentials and there's so many beautiful people around and so many beautiful things that happen. But it's a little bit kind of mass right now. So for me would be just be love. And it will change everything. Nice. Awesome. Thank you so much you. Thanks for the honor. Native yoga podcast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time well yeah,