Marilyn Haifa - Extreme Yin Yoga: Exploring the Power of Energy and Mindfulness

In this episode of the Native Yoga Toddcast, Todd interviews Marilyn Haifa, a professional yoga teacher and practitioner. Marilyn shares her journey into yoga, starting with her first Bikram yoga class in San Diego, where she immediately felt a deep connection to the practice.

She discusses the importance of grounding and finding purpose in the body and how yoga has helped her achieve that. Marilyn also talks about her introduction to meridian yoga therapy and the impact it has had on her teaching and personal practice. She explains the concept of energy in yoga and how it can be harnessed and controlled through breath and movement.

The episode concludes with a discussion on the benefits of chanting and the incorporation of acupressure points in yoga practice.

Visit Marilyn on her website: https://yogarx4life.com/
Follow her on IG @marilyn_haifa https://www.instagram.com/marilyn_haifa/?hl=en

Key Takeaways:

• Yoga has helped Marilyn find grounding and purpose in her body, allowing her to connect with her spirituality on a deeper level.
• Meridian yoga therapy has been a transformative practice for Marilyn, helping her understand the energy flow within the body and how to facilitate release and relief through yoga poses and acupressure points.
• Chanting is a powerful practice that can create a vibrational shift within the body and mind, leading to a deeper connection to oneself and the universe.

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Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com All right, let's begin Hello, welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. I'm so happy that you're here. I hope you're doing well hope life is treating you well hope you're enjoying the show. I absolutely love doing this. If you want to support monetarily, there is a contributor donate button there on the main page, my my podcast page. I am so excited to introduce you to Marilyn Haifa. She is going to be joining us here at Native Yoga Center on February 25 of 2024 12pm to 3pm. She lives up in Daytona Beach, and I met her in Tampa taking a workshop with Dr. Rose Erin Vaughn, who is amazing. Go to Episode 91. I had a chance to interview Dr. Rose Erin Vaughn hence when I saw she was going to Tampa. I was like, You know what she's somebody I want to study with. It was an acupressure and yin workshop. And it was an amazing weekend. I absolutely loved it. And I got a chance to meet Marilyn there. And so now I'm going to introduce you to her. All right, let's begin. I'm so happy to have this opportunity to speak with Marilyn Haifa, Marylin, Thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks, Todd. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here. I'm so excited for the fact that you're going to be coming to our studio to teach an extreme yen yoga workshop on Feb. 25. Coming up here in 2024. And so I'm excited to have a chance to just ask you some questions about your yoga journey and how you've made it this far. You're you're a professional yoga teacher, you earn a living teaching yoga. Am I correct? Yeah. Yes, you're right. How many do how many classes a week do you teach? I teach about 15. Nice. That's solid. Yeah, pretty decent amount of classes. Yeah. And yeah, it's, it's great. I know, when I first started practicing, and I see all these teachers going from studio to studio and there, it seemed like something so great about it. Just that I don't know, it seemed like a cool job, right, and being able to do what you love. And traditionally, I've really only been in one studio at a time. So now I'm in a couple different studios. And I'm kind of getting it out of my system, like literally feeling what it's like to teach that many classes a day and keep going and be able to deliver. That's the hardest part, right? Like, you could be exhausted or whatever. But you have to still show up for these people that are coming your classes. So it's a great lesson for me and how to take care of myself to be able to sustain and to tap into something bigger than the you know, just the food and the rest and whatever. You're really learning to work with energy. And I think that's the best part for me. That's a really good point. What was your first yoga class? My first yoga class was Bikram yoga class 14 years ago in San Diego. I know we've got that in common. And I was one of those Yogi's that I stepped on my mat and I was just smiling from ear to ear. I was like, I'm home, you know, just like an immediate love. I just knew it from the second I walked in that hot room. And you know, I had done some yoga in the past but nothing like that. And then I never stopped I went on a daily practice. I almost immediately started managing the studios in order to be able to practice and then it just kind of became my world pretty early on. And because that's so cool because we got a chance to meet each other at a recent Dr. Roseanne Vaughn workshop in Tampa. I remember us said that that studio was in Kearny Mesa San Diego. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, it was Kearny Mesa. That's awesome. I remember going into that studio, my wife and I had one on Mira Mesa Boulevard, which is not really that far from Kearny Mesa. So we not we might have we might have passed by each other back then. It's very possible. And then my friend ever went on to buy Mira Mesa, at one point. Well, years after that. Yeah, she's still there. Is she still there? I don't know. I don't know if she kept the studio or not, I haven't kept up. You know, it's hard to keep in touch their way I move around a lot. Admittedly, my husband I'm not a gypsy or anything. I'm a yogi. But my husband, I do make independent films. And we've traveled quite a bit, you know, West Coast east coast to make the films and whatever. I've been here for quite a while but almost four years in Daytona Beach. So landed for a little bit. With the exception of some travels. I didn't 2022. But yeah, but San Diego started off for me, that's really where I found the practice. And I just I dove in, I always say, a lot of people find yoga may be because they're seeking something, you know, maybe spiritually, something beyond them. Of course, people come to get more flexible and have a bad back or whatever. But for me, landing on my mat literally, like grounded me because I always have had a really deep faith and spiritual devotional practice. But I think in my 20s, I felt like I was a little bit out in the ether with it. I couldn't find kind of the grounding, like my purpose on earth that didn't, didn't match what I felt within. But the second I landed on the mat, I was like, Oh, this is what it is to be in this body on this earth and what it is to be a woman right now and, and that's what started it. Then I was like, I love this. I love being in this body on this earth. And that grounded me. So it brought, like, brought out my humaneness. That's awesome. I mean, at that era, in that part of the country. Bikram yoga studios were competing to see who could be the hottest studio I remember going down to the Old Town studio. Jim calot. Am I right? Yeah, it was. Jim would make that room like, ungodly hot, like hotter than anything. And I remember where we were in Mira Mesa, we were, I mean, it was hot. Like it was as hot as it could get. And people would come from Jim Cydia and be like, you're just not making it hot enough. You know, Jim really knows how to make it hot. And you'd be like really hotter than this. How's that even possible? And I feel like there was this element of like, if you weren't cooking it to the nth degree, you weren't kind of keeping up with the real way to do it. Did you ever encounter that sort of ethos or thought? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. Gym studio is notoriously the hottest. I managed to Bonita for a while which is south near Chula Vista. And she also said it so many I had it like so hot. I think Kearny Mesa had a nice balance where it was hot, but it wasn't like, kill you with the heat, you know. So but I know it is funny. But you know, you see today, I mean, I still see one student will come out and be like that was so hot. And then the next one would be like I was freezing, you know. So yes. You know, as for subjective, like what the heat is. I love the heat, I obviously don't want it to be where I can't comfortably get back up into a pose. Like I think that's a little too hot. But I do also like the element of the heat, I like it to be just on that cusp personally because I feel that that's what builds them the mental strength of like choosing to get back up in some tough conditions. And then here in Florida in the winter, you know, it's not as humid so all of our studios tend to cool down quite a bit. So if it's really hot in the summer, I just take it in because I think this is just the season and then in a few months when it's winter, it's gonna be pretty chilly in here again. And so can you practice in all of these different elements, you know, so don't attach to what the temperature is, you know, good point. Do you also do yoga practices that are not in a hot room? I do teach senior therapeutics. It's not heated. Yeah, my seniors don't like any heat. It make us up to 80 they're complaining. I teach the meridian yoga therapy which is not heated. And if I substitute other practices, which I do now and again, you know, I did last week a yoga Pilates and a Vinyasa meditation. I don't feel like I'm a Vinyasa teacher, but I can pass off that least a few things, you know, those are not heated. So in one of the studios, they do have a half and half kind of thing on their schedule. Cool. Yeah, when I've taken other classes and it's just not hot, it is harder, I do feel like I do have a harder time with practice. Maybe it's psychological. But, you know, when I'm in, like, when I was training with rose in Woodstock, it was not hot at all. And it was just like they see even in there and fans, and I was just freezing because I was still sweat cuz my sweat glands are so activated. And then I get really cold. And I'm like, This is really hard. And we're on a wood floor, you know? So it's like elements that you're not used to. Yeah. Makes it more challenging. But yeah, good point. You know, I thoroughly enjoyed getting a chance to meet you and practice with Dr. Roseanne Vaughn and thought she I think she's amazing. For those of you that are listening, that haven't listened to Episode 91. Go back and check out the interview with with rose. And can you tell me a little bit? Marilyn, what drew you to her particular method of teaching? What piqued your interest when you first saw her? Or how did you first encounter her style of teaching? Yes. It's a pretty interesting story. I think I had gotten Sarah power's book on yin yoga. When I first started teaching, because I wanted to dive in a little deeper and know what I was doing. And I, you know, definitely have always felt like the energy moving in the practice. I could feel it. I knew it was there. I had kind of heard a little bit about meridians and and, you know, Chinese traditional Chinese medicine. So I could understand that there were these pathways I knew of the noddy's, you know, but when I got her book, I was like, Oh, this makes a lot of sense. And so as I studied, and as I was teaching in, I was incorporating this information into my teachings. And this was all just my own self study. So when I was traveling in 2012, I stopped in San Diego to do a practice for some friends. And my friends said to me, this is amazing where to learn all this, she goes, You remind me of this woman, and she sent me roses page on her Instagram page. And I thought what's like, there's somebody actually teaching this further because I had no idea, you know. And then as the summer or that year progressed, we were traveling up and down the coast of California, but I injured myself terribly. So this whole idea was traveling and the teaching on the road, like all of a sudden I'm in completely shut down for at least a couple of months. I couldn't I couldn't practice really couldn't teach definitely. And then I kept looking at her page, and I kept thinking, I want to study with this woman. So I just made the decision to go to her advanced training in New York. And that's how I ended my travels. So I flew out to New York from the West Coast. And I did her advanced training, where I got to teach, learn to teach masterclass and get really a better grip, and understanding and learn the language of teaching the meridians. So within the meridian yoga therapy sequence, the extreme yen, so I just I learned so much from her, I was already teaching some pranayama. But it gave me also again, like a little bit more structure to being able to teach it and deliver the information. It just matched what I was already doing intuitively. So it felt like the exact right fit for me. And I was right she was she was an amazing, she's a master and just being in her presence, you are inspired, and you want to learn more. And she just helps you to, you know, not only for your own practice, but for me to unlock that as a teacher and be able to guide others into that same place within. It's just there's nothing like it. Well said Maryland that's really cool. One of the things I found was really enjoyable about the weekend that were with her in Tampa was the chanting of the Gayatri mantra and cadence the speed that she put it out of doing 108 rounds but like it had a really like, it was just so incredible. And I love chanting ag my first experience with yoga was with chanting and and I kind of just thought, Whoa, isn't yoga supposed to be with yoga poses? What are we doing right now? And we were chanting. So I thought but I thought that was just such an incredible, powerful experience. Can you talk a little bit about what your relationship to mantra chanting is like? Yes, of course. I too. I started chanting a bit back in 2012. That's when I was introduced to chanting I'm a singer. So it felt like a great fit for me to be able to use my voice to help facilitate that, you know, whatever deeper connection that that Montreux can offer. So when I again, so when I found rose, and she was chanting at the beginning of each morning practice, I was like, this is amazingly wonderful. And then especially when you do start to, like, think about the words and what it means. And even if you if you don't, if you don't really understand that, but you're right, the cadence itself, the rhythm, just the vibration of the words will start to affect change within you. And I know I got to a point where I could feel I say this, like, you could feel the chanting like circulate throughout the mouth. And I felt like it was like ping, ping, ping, like hitting all these points within the mouth. And I said to her, I was like, This is crazy. It feels so circular like this. Like it's just vibrating in this like, very sacred geometrical way it felt like, and she said, there's a lot of points in the mouth, like actual, you know, acupressure points, but also like noddy's That probably run through. And so just being able to do that practice every day for so many days within the advanced training, just took it to another level for me. So yeah, it was amazing. So I keep up my own chanting practice, like I'll walk the beach and do it. Because here, you know, it's pretty quiet where I live. So it's just a nice way to kind of focus on the sun and the light and chant and keep it up, you know? Well, that's, that's cool that you mentioned the sun in the light, because I know that the Gayatri Mantra I've heard is one of the most widely chanted mantras in India or like, it's like, the most famous or the most widely used may be next to the Maha Mantra, the Hari Krishna mantra. But when she explained the idea with Savi, three, I've always thought of is like the sun god. And so I and I couldn't really understand how if I lived in a world that didn't have electronics, and didn't have a lot of lights beyond what we see in the sky, and the stars, that each day when the sun would rise, like what an amazing experience that this is right? Like, yeah, wow, look at this incredibly bright, warm globe coming up, survive always, like just when I chanted that mantra, I thought of just the sun, or, or like, not like sun worship, but like, just honoring the sun like, wow, this is really cool experience. But then when she made mention of the idea of the luminosity of our own being, and to just concentrate a little bit on perhaps if you could pick up on having your own personal luminosity, I went, Oh, that's cool. I never really thought of it like that. So I like the mantra even more what I was doing, I was like, Oh, my gosh, can I visualize this like luminosity while we're doing the chant at the same time? And I just was like, This is awesome. It's awesome. It's mind blowing. Right? Yeah, it really is. And then, to segue into this idea of incorporating acupressure points that are meaningful and or there's purpose behind it, it's not just let's push on the body, which is nice enough. Like it's nice enough. Like, I feel like, even if you don't know, any acupressure points, and you come and pressure pressurize me, I'm gonna be like, Oh, it feels so great. Thank you, right. But then to actually go, Well, this pressure point actually does this for you, or could help you with this element is just taking it to the next level, can you share any insights that you've had with implementing acupressure work in your own practice? Yes, of course. Obviously. You know, like, we used to say, You can't cut yourself open and say, Oh, this is gallbladder 21. You know. So it's such an internal experience, first of all, right. So that's my favorite part about it is it's just taking you bringing that awareness into your own body at these different points that almost feel kind of sacred, that they're placed so strategically within the body to be able to facilitate real release, and then relief on top of it. So being able to learn the points for myself has been awesome. But sharing the practice has been so rewarding when I teach the meridian yoga therapy, and I show people the points within the poses, and then they find it and they're like, oh, wow, like they're always surprised at whatever sensation emerges. So I think just connecting you deeper to yourself to your body, within the yoga practice, so that it's not like nothing is superficial. It's all started Seeing from within. So just that simple awareness can start to affect real change and transformation within the body. So that sensation of tenderness, just with the pressure, the awareness, the breath into it will start to release any stagnation. And I think that's the best part about this practice is it's like taking the mystery out of why does this hurt? Why do I feel this? Why is this uncomfortable, and it starts on the surface, and then it moves deeper and to the whole pathway, and then into the organs and then into maybe trapped emotions. And it's just an endless, peeling back of all these layers until you just uncover not just the truth of who you are. But I think like the lightness and the joy that really is always beneath all of it. Yes, well said Good answer. There was another technique that I think that you want to implement. When I read the description that you came up with during the workshop that you'll be teaching here where we did this, like body tapping, where you kind of like, like, almost like clap your hand against your body on the front on this side on the back. Yeah. Can you explain that a little bit on what the intention is behind that? Yeah, it's called meridians, slapping activation techniques. So it's activating the young pathways that run through the the whole front side body, which is stomach, the whole side body, which is gallbladder and then the whole back body, which is bladder. So it's awakening that young energy. So I think you noticed when we finished, you kind of feel you feel that vibration throughout the whole body, the body is now suddenly awake in a in a new way so that that energy then starts to flow and start to move in the activation. And then what's so interesting, then you move straight to like the Bikram half moon back then PATA was dossena and then all of us are about a Cessna. And then all of a sudden, you are stretching those pathways and opening them. So that activation followed by that immediate stretching is now now that energy circuit is now flowing. So now I think anything poses we do from there on whatever long holds and acupressure that's implemented is is now setting you up to actually experience the the true release. Maybe whatever has been has been stagnant. Yeah, good answer. Good point. is, if you think back to your first yoga class, which sounds quite joyful, the way you explained it, you felt like you were came home. It was amazing. You're smiling, going, how come? I didn't find this earlier? Yeah. And now where you are, with some years under your belt, and you get to work with people. And there's a certain magic that happens when you teach because you start to see it from the side of the practitioner, but also the facilitator and you see other people and their interaction with yoga, and how it's affecting their lives. And it kind of for me, personally makes me love yoga even more, because you're like, hey, oh, my gosh, this is so cool. But how have you How was your understanding of the energy element of yoga from day one to where you are now? I, I feel much more in control of it. Much. It's more refined. I think before I could sense something there, and I knew it was there. But as the years have gone on, and I've done my own personal healing and clearing, I feel first of all, it's amazing. Because the more we practice, the more we open our lungs, the more prana we can actually take in. And now I have a real gift of like controlling that and pushing that through and creating the clarity that I need. So I just trust it. And it's something that's so personal. I mean, in the sacred texts, they talk a lot about all this being a secret, right? And you wonder like, is it a secret from you can't tell anybody? Or do they mean that it's a secret that it's such a personal experience? It's almost impossible to explain to people how you how you feel within a yoga practice, what it's doing to you from within, and trying to share that with others sometimes can be challenging because you're like, Don't you say we're moving energy? And it's, I don't know. So I think personally, I feel it's become more refined and the more I teach the Bikram method, I'm incorporating that idea that we're not just here, doing all these things and making crafts always there. I always told you like, it's great for the internal body, right. But I'm taking it a step further, like my cueing is like, do you want to push some more energy through them? Let's go a little bit deeper here. If you're all the way here, if you're in it, if you're in the deepest expression, there's even more like, it's never ending how much you can you can push this through. So I do think, yeah, when you're younger, and especially as teenagers, I feel like I wish kids knew about emotional energy, because then it would save them so much heartache, right of like, this fluctuation of their hormones and the way they change and, and then let's say, especially the social pressures today, so many children and teens are suffering a lot. And they don't need to if they understood of this, if they understood their emotional body, and how things should realistically keep moving through. And not to create more stories, not to create more attachments, I just think a lot of heartache would be saved, you know, if we had an understanding, that's such a great point, Marilyn, that made me think yesterday, my daughter's 10. And she needed help with their math. And I started to help and she had an emotional experience. And I remember took me back to my childhood of my dad helping me with my math and me having emotional experiences trying to learn it. And so once we turn the corner, like you know, she went out, so let's go outside, let's just get some fresh air, let's just like try to hit the reset button. And And once that all happened, later on the day, I said, I'm really proud of you for hitting that reset button today pretty good. And she kind of looked at me like, that wasn't good, that wasn't fast enough. They kind of almost like just being hard on herself still that it took longer than maybe she in her mind would have been a good amount of time to be able to recover. And I was like, No, I really think you did a great job like it was it was good. I mean, you could have pushed out three or four hours longer. That could turn into an all night that could turn on to. And it's just so fascinating to watch. And and I just I'd like that you said that because you're right as children if to learn, I think you said to learn to control the emotional body or the emotional side or not even necessarily control because I think we need to be natural about it. But just know that there is some power to be able to turn it. Which is so so powerful and amazing. So I'm diggin the way that you're explaining it. Thank you. Yeah, of course. I mean, of course, we're humans were meant to have these emotions. It's not. That's insane to repress them, because that's what causes the discord if we're constantly stuffing them down and not experiencing them. But it's in allowing them to just flow through without any would just the observation of it without any further attachment. Because that's what to me what is causing them to create the stagnation within the body. If we just let it move through naturally, I mean, you know, and I always think of things like, you know, if you have grief, like somebody passes away, that's just such a natural emotion. But also, you know, I cry when I'm in awe of something. And that's also amazingly beautiful, right? And that's like the other end of the grief in a sense. So never to repress. But I did have a philosophy teacher, he was straight from India's called Master Shaw Street in Santa Cruz. And he would he would teach us philosophy, like at once a month, and it was just so amazing. And everyone else would get so mad, they would get so triggered at some of the things you say. And I was like, he's right, he's right. You know, the one thing he said it stuck with me forever was if you get angry, it's too late. You've already done the damage. And I just loved that so much because I feel like we we think that like like especially anger, anger, irritability, like all of these like less favorable emotions are really having an impact on the body. And in ways that we may not even realize I mean anger first of all is associated with liver and gallbladder. So I mean that makes a lot of sense to me. You know, if you think the gallbladder the side body, so the side body's taking like the brunt of all of our stress to protect the organs. But then if we're if that rising young energies is constantly rising, and we we are not actually trying to move it downward and allow it to flow naturally, then we tend to get angry, we get irritable, and then we're causing more discord in our life, then we're we're interfering with our relationships if you know if you're an angry person and you know your significant other isn't scared to talk to you, your children are scared to talk to you and then so it's causing it causes a schism on all levels. Physically, it's actually impairing and creating stagnation in the liver, gallbladder pathways and in the organs themselves, but then it ripples into our whole life. So or it just made sense to me like, can we get to a point where we notice the energy that's happening within the body without having to unleash it? unconsciously? Maybe, you know, maybe that's a refinement that takes time. But I believe in it, I believe that we have that capacity. When we can get to that point, then it's and it's not like we become boring people, and we're just like, stoic and never, you know, happy or joyful, or, you know, joke around or anything, but at least if we can get to that level of awareness, then we can just interact more honestly and authentically with each other. Instead of from like, a more wounded place. Yes. Great point. I like that. That would have stuck with me to that will stick with me actually. What was his name? Dr. shastra? Master Shaw street masters. shastra. Yeah, like, Thank you, ASTRA Shastri. It came through, right. It's getting passed along here. Yeah, right. I know. It's just, it was amazing. And I tell you, so many people that night, were getting angry, just trying to defend their anger. And I thought, and I just watched, and I was like, they they're not getting it. And it's okay. I mean, we all understand. I mean, yoga philosophy is just, it's so massive, right? It can, it can really blow your mind. And it can be triggering to people, because we want to hold on to all of our things that are familiar and, you know, our traumas or wounding like it, it's comfortable. It, but I always say like, it's, it's, I think it's less comfortable, or it's how do I say this, it's more painful to spend a whole lifetime holding on to these things than to just face the pain of releasing it. That's just a one time shot. If you can just release it and let it go. Yes, it's scary, and it can be a little painful, but then you're done. And then you're free from that bondage. And then you can live out, you know, freely and happily, don't there's no need to hold on, you know, great point. Well said, you know, when I'd always been involved in young practices in relation to Bikram yoga, and Ashtanga Yoga, and so then when I started to take yin yoga, I was thinking, well, this is really cool. Like, how come I had stumbled upon this earlier, this makes a lot of sense. And I so I really like in yoga a lot. And I teach in yoga, and I had a new student who I teach. Also, we teach here, a gentle yoga class, but in the gentle yoga class, I almost want to say it's easier than yen because we're not holding the poses for very long. And so we're doing very gentle Hatha Yoga type class, but because we're moving within, like, you know, 30 seconds or so from one pose to the next, it's not too intimidating. So, sometimes I'll hear people come out of Yang class and go, Oh, that was so difficult. And you know, and as we already touched upon, like, everything's subjective in relation to the heat. One person was dying, and the person who was cold and you're like, Wow, and so when we set up for you to come teach your the terminology that Dr. Roseanne Vaughn uses and you use is extreme yen, and I went, Oh, my yen people are gonna go extreme yet. What is not extreme enough as it is like, what does that mean? So then I put the terminology without the extreme, but then when I came back to your like, you know what, I think maybe we should include that word extreme, because I don't want people to show up, not knowing what they're gonna get. Let's be honest, like straight out, like, let's just help call it like it is which I agree with 100%. So all that laid on the table. Can you explain the why the word extreme? And then can you define the why, for extreme yen yoga? Yes, yes. I think it's extreme because we're holding what might be traditionally young poses for longer than you might be comfortable with. There's also this element of the the warmup itself is a little bit rigorous to like start to move the young energy through first in order to settle in. So for example, and then whisk anybody off, but I mean, there's a five minute candle. And that seems crazy for some people. But I tell you what, I was teaching it in the summer and fall it was in the sequence. And people were loving it. By the end, they were just like, this is easy. This is nothing. And same with me. Like I could hold it 10 minutes now easy. So it's not about the strenuous holding. It's the extreme part to me is can you watch your mind for five minutes without freaking out? Can you be in this pose and truly start to open up these pathways, because that's what it's about. It's about opening the pathways that we're working on. In a, in a very extreme way, it's kind of easy to hold a 32nd camel and then take a savasana. And then, you know, come back, maybe do it again. I mean, not that easy. Some people still have trouble with it and don't like it. And it's but to me, it's like, it's just going beyond the body, beyond the sensations beyond the stories of limitation. And so I must say, like, I like extreme sports, right? Like, you've got your regular skiing, and then you've got your extreme, like snowboarding flying off these cliffs, you know, heliskiing, or whatever it is, right? It's the same principle. I think it's like, instead of the extreme ism being in like this rigorous crazy workout, it's in like them actually being able to watch your mind. And that is the hardest part. I think for people when you're holding poses. I noticed that even like between, you know, vinyasa people and Bikram people like the vinyasa people hate Bikram because they can't stand just watching themselves. They like to just keep moving and doing what they want and not being told, like very specific details. And they don't they don't like that crossover. Because there's a little more discipline. And literally, you're watching yourself and you have to watch your mind. So much so that you don't move. And it's kind of the same principle with the extreme. Yeah, and I feel what do you think the become person doesn't like the vinyasa situation. If you if you flip it the other way, what what do you see as the the counter thesis to that? I think that they don't like the structure. And they they, I think a lot well, there's I've seen more across the more crossover. I see it's more from Bikram to other practices. But overall, I think the Bikram people want to feel good. They liked the discipline, they liked the structure, and then they feel like it's therapeutic. And a lot of times that they don't feel that same thing in a Vinyasa practice. Yeah. But I've been seeing a little bit more especially because I'm in a studio now that does offer all these styles that there is a little more crossover, but not as much vinyasa over to Bikram, and then they come over and then they want to do their own thing. And especially that I do see the practice as very therapeutic. And I do see how we're moving the energy very strategically from one post to the next. Like, that's where I really do feel that the details really do matter. So you know, in vinyasa, you can step however you want. You don't have to have your legs together, you can have your hands placed however. And yet, in a Bikram, it's different, and it's intentional. It's not just because the teacher is telling you this because they're in a power trip, you know, and want you to do what they want you to do, like I see it. So clearly, I see the lines of energy. And so it's so important how you're placing your hands, your feet, your eyes, like it really all plays a role and how we're strategically like squeezing out that energy top to bottom. That's fascinating because what's interesting about the correlation between say vinyasa, and Ashtanga or Stanga as taught by the Mysore method, is that I think the Ashtanga Mysore method is actually very similar to the Bikram in that right, there is exact precision, there's no there's not a lot of gray. It's like when you lift your arms above, your palms are together and you look right at your thumbs and then when you exhale, you come down and you know so, but I think with vinyasa. In the vinyasa. People might get mad at me saying this but the vinyasa and I teach vinyasa some I can get mad at myself. I'm okay with that. I have little arguments in my own head about you know, I go through these debates on my own. So I'm glad to actually have someone to talk to you about this. Thank you for actually entertaining me here is that it's almost like the vinyasa flow world came out of this like, ah, that song is stuff is so vigorous, so, so rigorous, because it's so structured, let's just be free. Let's just, let's just be free. Let's just go from one post to the next and, and that's such an interesting dichotomy because I love the structure, but I also feel like my structure might be keeping me holding me back from being free. I'm a big fan of being very yoga fluid, like yoga style fluid yoga, however you want to call it like, form fluid, but I know not everybody feels that same way. I'm like that with my politics to like, I could go this way and I can go that way. Or I mean, like, I'd like to like listen to everybody. Like I want to know about everything. What do you think? What where do you fall in all that? I think we're probably fairly similar in that, but I just want to hear your thoughts. Oh, for sure. I think I'm definitely the same way. Like, I do feel like that. When you go to a particular practice. I feel like it's so important to do what the teachers telling you because there's, there's an intention behind it. But I do I love vinyasa. I take I take it every Tuesday, Thursday night after I teach Bikram like I hop power flow, like I'm loving it, and it's hot and it's sweaty, and it feels like a workout. But the difference for me is like I have a really strong foundation in my body awareness and how my alignment. So I can go in there safely and know that I'm, I'm getting the benefit and I can watch myself. I feel like it's harder if you don't have a foundation to like, just pop into a regular vinyasa class, because they're not giving you the details that you you get in these other structure practices. And unfortunately, then there's some injury issues or whatever. And then a lot of it then neglects some of the deeper elements of the actual yoga, the watching your mind that watching your breath, the alignment that to me, it's like that's why Bikram Ashtanga all these things like your brain telling your body to move in these very specific ways. And when you master that you're not you're mastering the body. Yes, but you're mastering the mind. Yeah, that's why it's so amazing. So vinyasa misses a little bit of that. If you don't venture off into into other practices or study, study the deeper yoga path. Yeah, I would agree with you. I think having that like classical foundation that makes it possible for you to improvise. But if you start off in the improv, improvisational world, not really learning the fundamentals, you miss something as well. So I agree it's, yeah, I do think we shouldn't we should try, you know, explore 100%, right. I mean, that was one thing that like, I mean, I've got to be really I'll be really honest, when I would listen to Bikram because I took Bikram teacher training in 2001. And hit with him. And he'd be like, Look, my yoga is the only yoga every other yoga out there is absolute crap, nothing else exists. You're wasting your time. My, my yoga is the only yoga and I don't know, that kind of pushed me away from it. You know, that sort of dogmatic approach of like, my, this is the only way, you know, they can get that with religion to like, you go into religion. And it's like, no, no, no. If you're not in this camp, you don't get to go to heaven. Right? So I don't know. Sorry, I don't want to take, too. But you think about like, everyone, but now everyone is an expert. On social media. Everyone's an expert, everyone's selling you their method their way. They're the right ones. Like, I think that's the human tendency, when you're selling something, you have to believe in it to the point where nothing else could match, right? Because that's just the kind of consumer and entrepreneur world we're living in. So it can be and then that's why I tune out so much, because I don't I love to learn from people don't get me wrong, but I'm very discerning about who I'm learning from. Because, overall, I trust myself more, to discern the truth to discern what's right to take in information that feels useful to me that then I can share or apply to myself, like, I don't want to constantly sell and be sold to. So I understand. I understand maybe why he was like that in a way because then again, some of these, you know, knockoffs aren't giving you the same results. So I can understand you to obviously the arrogance comes from that that same idea like of course I'm the best this is where you want to get everyone I just feel like that's a it's saturated within our whole culture now so you know, these kids aren't I'm not on tick tock or anything, but literally just like selling whatever. And you know, entrepreneurship or whatever they're selling and they've never been outside their. Their realm. Alan Great. Points. You're touching on some really good, solid points. Thank you. Yeah. Oh, man. I want to let everybody listening know that I'm so happy that you and I have continued our conversation today because we hit a few technical glitches at the beginning which we started, we restarted we started we restart it and we got it right. It sounds so good now. And I feel like maybe I'm glad we jumped those hoops because we got a little bit of the clutter out of the way and we just cut right to it. on that. No, this might be one of my shorter podcasts. So it took us a little time. So as we were coming closer to our conclusion here, we could talk for hours, and we will talk for hours, you're going to be here. And you know, you're going to be here for three hours to teach us a workshop, which I'm really excited about. I can't wait to take it. I loved practicing next to you. And that experience was really cool for me, I, we both I know you teach so much. I'm constantly teaching in the studio six days a week. So to actually go and take a course with someone else is, for me, my most favorite thing to do, I love being a student. So I really look forward to being a student when you come and just practice, it's going to be amazing. Is there anything else you want to add to our discussion today? I hope we can do we'll do this again. So we can build this. But um, is there anything that comes to your mind that you want to share? Before before we venture into the next next day? Well, yeah, I mean, I really look forward to coming down, I would love to see some of your students there and people from the community. This practice, like I said, it's just, it feels like my next evolution as a teacher, I in fact, I had a student say that, but that this style is the next evolution of yoga, you know. And then Rose said, I think this is the original yoga. So that's interesting, because it's kind of it is kind of coming full circle and ascend through the pranayama practice, which I love teaching, breathing, I mean, if we're not breathing, we're not alive. So to be able to learn to control the breath, and then see how these different techniques actually affect your mind. And body, I think is really an important practice if you're trying to further yourself on the path. So teaching that is really exciting for me, and the chanting, as we talked about. And then the extreme end practice itself, like come with an open mind and an open just part, you don't have to be great at it. And you don't have to hold the whole time. But I kind of feel like you'll want to, you know, everyone I've talked so far stays with it. And I have a way of just guiding you a little deeper into yourself so that you feel safe doing so it's important to go deeper within so we can start to let go and just really be the best version of ourselves, you know, happy, free, light, clear. All the things were meant to be there's no reason to stay stuck. So I hope that that practice on February 25 can kind of impart some of that. Yes, Well done, Maryland. I look forward. I look forward to seeing you. And I can't wait. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Course. Thank you. All right. Bye bye. Bye. Native yoga taught cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. 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