Meredith Fogg Liebross - Digging Deeper: The Endless Quest in Yoga Practice

In this episode of the Native Yoga Toddcast, host Todd interviews Meredith Fogg Liebross, an Ashtanga yoga teacher based in Los Angeles. They discuss the unique path of becoming a yoga teacher and the stereotypes surrounding it. Meredith shares her experience studying with renowned teacher Annie Carpenter and the importance of finding a teacher who can pass down the wisdom of the tradition. They also touch on the challenges and joys of parenting and the constant pressure to be present in a world filled with distractions. Tune in for an insightful conversation on the deeper aspects of yoga and the journey of self-discovery.

Follow Meredith on IG at: https://www.instagram.com/meredith_fogg_liebross/?igsh=MXVraWxoamF3NmI2Yw%3D%3D

Key Takeaways:

• Choosing to become a yoga teacher is a unique and often unconventional career choice, driven by a deep connection to the practice and a sense of dharma.
• The role of a yoga teacher is to be a conduit of knowledge and experience, passing down the teachings and practices to the next generation.
• Ashtanga yoga is a method that requires dedication and consistency, with the goal of achieving ego death and non-dualism.

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Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast today, I have the pleasure and the privilege of bringing Meredith Fogg Liebross to the show. I have an Instagram link for if you want to follow her and check her out. See some pics. It's at@meredith_fogg_liebross. And thank you for joining me, Meredith, it was such a pleasure to speak with you. She's a yoga teacher, as Ashtanga yoga teacher out in Los Angeles, California. And she teaches with Pranidhi Varshney, who I had a chance to have on the podcast as well. Check back a few episodes ago and have a listen. It's really cool actually to speak to two different teachers that work in the same studio and to hear the dynamic from both sides. And also to hear the appreciation from both of them for each other about how much they do to kind of hold the space together. So go ahead and have a listen to this conversation. You're here. Now obviously, you get to listen, and then check out before a couple episodes with Pranidhi Varshney. It was such a pleasure to meet both of them. And the next time you're in Los Angeles. And if you love Ashtanga yoga, go check them out. All right, let's get started. Meredith. I'm so happy to have this opportunity to meet and speak with Meredith Fogg Liebross. Meredith, you are in Los Angeles. Do I have that correct? You do. I'm currently in Ojai. But I'm in Los Angeles and Ojai. But my time how far away is that I teach in Los Angeles? About an hour and a half. Yeah. Wow. So wait, when you teach in LA that means you drive an hour and a half to get to the studio? No, well, occasionally. I mostly spend my time in Venice in LA. But my family and I have been renovating a like a little ranch up in Ojai. So we come on the weekends, and sometimes. Tomorrow's a moon day. So I had extra time. So I came up here after dropping my kids at school. My husband, I occasionally trade just so that we can get a little nature, you know, get out of LA. So it's very different up here. It's ranch lands. So I'm fortunate that I get to be in both places. But I teach in LA and North me and my kids are in school in LA. So I'm normally there. Cool. I appreciate Ron. Ed introduced me to you teach at her studio. Yoga. Shallow West. That's correct. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Nice. And how long have you been a yoga teacher? Huh? Decade. Cool. Nice. That's a good solid amount of time. I never really timestamp the day like the data switch was flicked. The switch was fired about a decade. Yeah. What is one of the stereotypes that you think exist around that switch flip in relation to being a yoga student? And now I am a yoga teacher? Is there anything that you find interesting about that? There's a lot that I find interesting about that. I don't know if it is necessarily a stereotype I feel like or something that's really like it's a strange choice. I feel like choosing to become a yoga teacher is a very strange choice that people make. And then I don't feel like I made and I don't think historically that was like a choice that people made it was more or less of a choice that was made for them. So it means stare. Yeah. The the decision to teach yoga, as though it's like a career decision. Always kind of baffled me because it's not In a great career, in a lot of ways, I feel like those who do it, it's because they can't not. It's a bit of a dharmic poll. Yeah, those who do it for, you know, the long run, I think there's a lot of students turn teachers, because they are made to believe that if you feel the need to do to connect more to go deeper, that that's the next step. And I think that's, unfortunately, the result of the, like a business model, you know, teacher training business model that tells people that you should become yoga teachers, when really all you should do is just become more dedicated students. It's great. Yeah, so I don't know if that's the stereotype. But the, the, when that flip was switched for me, I didn't know it in the moment. I, I sort of kept trying not to teach yoga. What was the situation like you were practicing? And your teacher said, Can you I'm going to be out of town? Would you be willing to hold down the class? You seem like you know, what you're doing? Or was it? Was it a situation where somebody said, you really should do teacher training, you should do a teacher training, and then you took a training and then decided to start teaching? How did it evolve for you? Um, well, it evolved for me, I was really, you know, I did a formal teacher training, I was just very lucky to have done it with a woman who I think is I still to this day, have a relationship with and think incredible woman named Annie Carpenter, who, you know, she's an in old school integrative teacher who's rooted in more than one traditional lineage, and has just a unique ability to integrate them and then innovate on her own. So I had exposure to traditional yoga through her. And that was a very valuable training experience. And I think, put me in a really good position to kind of understand my own practice in more ways. And that led to, you know, teachers that then became mentors, and that shaped my practice. I wouldn't necessarily, necessarily say shaped my career, because I never really meant for it to be a career. I feel like, every time I stepped away from that path, I got pulled back into it. And this last round was there. You know, pruning, and I just started trading off during maternity leaves, basically. So we have five small children, between the two of us. And we kind of just kind of stumbled into a situation that you for a minute or room doesn't always work to have alternate two teachers that alternate within the same program. But it just worked so well for us. And yeah, so it's been, it's a bit of a dharmic poll to do what I do. And I feel even more so about that, teaching my sore for the years that I taught in like lead style classes, you know, was never quite the right fit for me. Because I was always, you know, really drawn to the teaching and the connection with the students. And I wasn't particularly good at the performative aspect of, you know, a pop yoga situation where you have different 30 or 4034 people in the room and different every day. But I'm not I was kind of wandered from your original question, but and yours teaching roughly and taught, sort of integrated Hatha style. Ashtanga younger, blended, and then full on my sore for the past three years or so nice. I also, can you tell us a little bit about I've heard so many good things about Annie Carpenter, can you tell me a little bit about what is it about her that you enjoy studying with her? I've seen pictures ever ever since I started practicing and Yoga Journal books and magazines and she just looks amazing. And I've seen so can you just share a little bit about why you love her what you think is amazing about her you kind of already did but I'm just Yeah, I'd love to know more. Yeah, and of course, and he's rad. I mean, any set me on a path towards you know, Mati is a teacher I'd studied with her up until she passed for so many years. And so I credit both of them. And as well Chuck Miller, who I spent a little bit time with, not as much as Mati And then a lot of our younger teachers in LA that I Um, I miss my younger teachers, they kind of disappeared in COVID times, but um, Annie is just a uniquely talented teacher in the sense that is outside of the yoga world, like she can command a room have that charisma. So she's, you know, clear communicator, and she has this background of Shiva, Nanda, a yin gar Ashtanga. And she was a Martha Graham dancer and choreographer. So she has like a wide array of just movement, background, and has, she has the experience it takes to decide what part of which lineage is useful for her. And then she passes that down through to her students, which I think is the kind of thing that only a few people really qualified to do. Because when everyone gets in there and starts doing that, then we've lost the lineage and the tradition altogether. So I'm not generally a fan of like, the way that modern vinyasa yoga has adapted to becoming something that doesn't have any foothold. Yeah, but she's a unique example of someone who can teach a Vinyasa class that feels like it's in the stream. She's also just fun and funny. And like a general educational experience, right? She's someone who knows a lot about anatomy and physiology and offers, and she offers a lot of trainings that aren't necessarily teacher trainings were like workshops, people who were just kind of like the geek out about things. So there's a little bit of me that like just the geeking out part. academic inquiry. So she's, she's for students who are a little type A and into the academic aspect of their practice. She's kind of a fun person to spend some time with, cuz she knows, she knows at all. That's cool. And she loved me, you know, in the direction that I went from there. Nice. And you mentioned Maddie is rowdy and Chuck Miller. Were you practicing the original YogaWorks in Santa Monica when they had that studio? I practiced and taught at the original Yoga works in Santa Monica, but not while they had their Mysore program. My Yeah, I mean, I entered the Ashtanga world kind of through the back door, which I feel great about. Mati I spent several years up right up until her passing, spending some, you know, intense intensive periods of time with her at least every year, if not more than once a year. Or, you know, she'd come for weeks at a time. But it was in the period between 2011 Up until she passed and what was that like? 2000 22,018. Right? If my memory serves, so a good chunk of time with her. And that period where she was it's very interesting. She meant she was similar as Annie. She was teaching integrative yoga, she had kind of she was not adhering to like what you would see now in Mysore. But she's still teaching Ashtanga. She was just teaching Ashtanga that was infused with felt like she was spending time in Pune. So it had kind of it was not the Mysore style education that came later for me like being what it was like to be really immersed in Mysore room, because it was mostly let. So I spent a lot of time with Mati, but it's a different version of Mati than the people that were with her. You know, I don't even know how old I would have been when she was doing like her 4pm classes for years on Montana. It's probably a teenager does miss out on that. Yeah. So yeah, it was just a second phase of her teaching, which is, which is unique. It's unique, like I have such a close bond and relationship with her in the second half of her life, but she was a different teacher then. Then when she was, you know, working on Mysore program full time. And I've spent some time with Dina Kingsburg says, still kind of trying to find those teachers for me those old school teachers that have you know, they're within Ashtanga lineage but you know, I'm pretty religious person. And if you're pretty far from any dogma moment, I sniff it out. So it's kind of new. I look. It's great. I love it. I mean, the irony of that in the end, The more senior and you know older not to use my senior but more senior teachers you kind of find the less dogmatic they tend to be because they don't feel via don't feel the need to defend something that doesn't need defend it. Good point do you made I love the way that you made the analogy like when you sniff out dogma? Can you think of ways that that's helped you in your yoga practice? And maybe even possibly a way where it might have detracted in some ways? Does that make sense? Like sometimes I, I'm extreme, I'm like that too. Like, I have like a cold tachometer that like soon as I get this feeling on my other way. And then but sometimes that keeps me so skeptical that I wonder if that if I'm the scowl on something by my skepticism. What have you noticed with that experience in yoga product? Yeah, I mean, that's a great point. I mean, cynicism is a defense mechanism. A lot of the times and I'd probably it is very possible that my aversion to dogma, perhaps comes from not understanding necessarily the tradition, the way that I would, if that had been like entry point one. However, I really feel that I'd benefit from an astronaut's view of the larger project that we're participating in, and dedicating our time to as practitioners and life to as teachers. Because I, I, I don't see these distinctions. And I don't like very fortunate for that. The radar has provided me a very good sense of when you know what you see it, like one of the Supreme Court Justice Potter, you know, that was sustainless quote, about the obscenity act of like, when you know it, you see it, because it's an intangible thing. So when you when you when you, when you when you see or experience something real, you know it, and when you see or experience something that is has veered off in some way. You know, it and I don't think that that necessarily lines up with doing things exactly according to the way that any one particular lineage or tradition. That's good, you know, yeah, just that you do. I, in my, I mean, in my practice, I've benefited immensely because I feel such a strong, intuitive sense of what I'm, what I'm doing, over how I'm doing it. And I feel as though I offer my students the space to develop that for themselves. So that I'm teaching them rather than just instructing them. Yes. And I'm not even convinced that yoga can be taught. And well, that's a good plan. Can yoga actually even be taught? will try to teach people like, on the same level of like, how do I teach happiness? Yeah, right. Like, you're either happy or not, but how do you teach someone to be happy? So you feel yoga has that sort of instinctual element that? Okay, I have a question for you, then if imagine you're on a deserted island. And you like one thing, when I started doing some Buddhist style meditation courses and trainings and retreats and stuff, there was this concept that Buddha taught that anybody can achieve awakening. And that you know, it's something that any human or you know, anyone has the option to do. And I loved that idea that potentially your eye or somebody, someone can sit under a tree or something along that lines and, and have an awakening experience, regardless of our background, our history, our all these different things. We could go down classifications, but then when I think of something like say, if I was on a deserted island, and someone's and I had this idea, I want to learn Spanish or a foreign language. I wouldn't really be able to learn it unless I actually came in contact with someone that did know that language Like, I don't know that I'd be able to pull a foreign language out of thin air. Maybe someone argue with me like some super high Rishi person would be like, No, you actually can't do that. But do so I guess what I'm trying to get at is do you think a teacher is necessary for yoga? Or do you think it's more important or to get more legitimate or authentic that we just really have to seek within to figure it out? Or good question. I do think a teacher is necessary. Right. And I've been a little bit teacher lift myself for some time now. So I do you think the teacher is necessary? Yeah. I feel, I guess the way that I think about that is strange, I guess I think about it in a strange way. I was a political consultant for about 10 years before I started teaching full time. So I still kind of think about things in terms of like persuasion. And I kind of pause you, you're a political consultant. Is that what you said? Yes. Can you describe the media consultant? Do you define what a political consultant does? Yeah. Well, I worked in Washington, DC and La time, and I will I provided the strategic framework for issues, campaigns, advertising, messaging, and then it was also causes that weren't a political nonprofit. Gotcha. Like the Gates Foundation, the United Nations. You know, when if campaigns like, the United Nations had Nothing But Nets, campaigns and anti Malaria campaign, things like that providing like messaging strategic framework. Thank you. I was a writer of copywriters, stuff like that. A speech writer in general, strategic Media Communications. Consultant operative work. Wow. Straight Yeah, you didn't have to, like a serious job project. A little bit what I mean, when I'm like, I did not choose this this token. These are two seemingly different paths. But all right, I don't want to interrupt you. But I just wanted to make sure I was on the right page. Yeah. Well, I mean, they are very different paths in a lot of ways. But some, the same compulsion that I had. Not not, I'm not naive enough to think that working in politics is pure, but the same compulsion that I had to help and participate and engage and progress and do something. If they, to me feel like it feels like a theme urge within me, in a lot of ways, somewhat of a fire to, you know, elevate the vibration. Yes, yes. And in the within that you found an individual level now, which in a way is, you know, less prestigious, socially, but a lot more impactful to me. And to them, I think, in the long run, working with one person at a time, helping one person at a time, letting them help me the collective healing that goes on how we're all moving down this path together and pass it is, you know, this is our path that isn't on everyone's path, but they don't seem that different to me in terms of just getting to know myself, and were the things that have always driven me. But they are very different. And I get a lot of funny looks when I say that. That's what I used to do. Yeah, but yeah. That was a tangent. I was answering your question, which is, which is fine. I'm coming up, you're interested. We can talk more about that. But I'll bring in your question about needing a teacher and the desert island, I suppose. I just feel as though when I look at my practice, the Ashtanga lineage. And my role as a teacher I see most of what we're doing to just be tech like tactical. I see the hoses and the sequence to be backticks in the project of Ashtanga Yoga to be the strategy and you need teachers for those things, right? You need lineage for those things. That's kind of like the that's the that's the container that those things provide. But the you know the objective Ahmadi leads to the the goal is ultimately you know, ego death and non dual like those things when you're when you're really when you've taken the framework and the content Mirror, which is really just this gigantic experiment and observing the nature of that all things are always changing. When you you need a teacher for that, yeah. When you've superseded those things, that's where I don't know that you can be taught, like, I don't know that you can be taught anything past the, the, you know, the tactical and strategic framework, but those things require teachers, and they require teachers who have some sense of what comes after that, even if they've never, you know, Lamoni, just some idea of where we're headed, and why we're headed in that direction. And that's why I think these things are just not interchangeable. But you know, Ashtanga is one method. It's a good method. It's not the only method. Yoga is one method. It's a good method. It's not the only method. So I guess I don't see any of this as the answer. Good answer. Yeah, I think that was a really good answer. I like the way they kind of pointed out the tactic and the strategy. Yeah, that can be taught. Definitely someone can help you with that. But the deeper inner workings, that makes sense, do the framework has to be taught Absolutely. Yeah. And pass down, you know, that's, then it's a semantical distinction, right? Like, the role of the teacher like, well, it's just, I'm just a conduit. I'm a conduit of AI, it runs through me, and there's something unique in my experience that I have to offer, when I pass it on it, my job is to take something that I got from someone, and then find another way to get it to someone else. Yes. Maybe that's teaching. But maybe it's just sharing like that. Filtering? I don't know, do you think we could change the terminology yoga teacher training to like a yoga sharing training? Would that be a good way? Like, if we were to try to look for a different? I keep thinking about this all the time. We, I personally, my wife and I, we have a studio, we do yoga teacher trainings, and I know there's like so much to talk about just that whole idea and concept. But and then when I think well, what if we change it to say, a yoga sharing training, I just don't know that anybody would show up. So I get caught in this little, like quandary of like, I've got to call it that, because that's what everybody's been trained to look for. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's like the the buzzword that what I really want to invest my time in something that's like a yoga sharing program, or a yoga, you know, what I mean? Like, how you keep the doors open? I'm sure there's, there's definitely there's that that's gonna come, you know, no, no shade. That's how that is the that is the structure is it's a it's a, it's a bit of a flaw in, in the setup. Yeah. And that's not, you know, that's, that's no one studios responsibility to solve. Yeah, unless you have some angel donor. Pay your bills, you know, that I don't know, it's, I could talk through what I think some sort of ideal would be, but it's not. We don't live in an ideal world. And also, it's so I don't I don't know, I don't know, like Judith last or someone who has just for years been really advocating for, like a very formalized educational system, akin to bachelor's, master's, PhD. Yeah. Yes. teaching classes, bachelor, you need that much education. When you're dealing with therapeutics, things like that. Those are specializations. I understand that instinct. But something about that is also very sanitary. I mean, this is not dental hygenist work. In order, it's something also about the way that if you look, I don't you know, you could share with me if you want teachers that have really embodied whatever it is about them that spoke to you that I don't feel like most of these people, like, went to a career fair and decided like, this is what I want to do and then paint by numbers. I'm going to do this I'm going to set up my I'm going to get myself my name out there. I'm gonna watch you know, now I don't this is not a criticism of the people who invest money in a training for a trade and then have to try to turn that into something that's the world that we live in. That's how any other trading training system would work. You do it for a job. But there's something about that that eliminates that whatever it is that like the people who T It's, it's because it's their dharma. You know, it's because their practice became something that they, like they just had to or had some unique ability to disseminate. Yeah, that's a good point. So I don't I don't know. But that doesn't leave. That doesn't leave anyone with any answers. I agree. And I think, I don't know, I think a certain level of maturity that comes with wisdom is that we kind of understand that there won't be an answer. I tried to get per needed to solve an answer. I knew there's no way we're gonna get to the answer. But I do like trying, you know, and even though I kind of know, I know, we're not going to get there. Or maybe we will maybe, maybe, maybe we will, maybe we will. You know, when I first came across, the stronger and I had been, I had taken yoga teacher training with Bikram in La Cienega Boulevard, oh, my gosh, back in 2001. And that was like, torture chamber. And so then I took an easier path and went to Mysore. Just joking, that was an easier and when I got to Mysore, I saw this system of where there was no teacher training, and it was like you just came and you practiced, and eventually, if you seemed worthy, you'd be authorized or you know, certified. But then, and I thought, Oh, that looks like a very great way to do it. But then I started hearing other people are like, Yeah, but man, I've been going to India for like 15 years, and I keep doing everything I'm supposed to do. But they just don't like me. And so they just won't let me they won't give me that piece. And I thought, well, that doesn't sound so great either. You know what I mean? So I like I see. I will seek if somehow those two things could be merged together. And I do think they are merged together. Because I feel like like what you're doing, you're teaching from your heart, you're teaching what you've learned, and you're just teaching and you're not really worrying about, oh, I've got this piece of paper and this accreditation at this point, you're just like, let me just get involved with these folks and help them out as best I can. Any thoughts around those ideas? Well, I think at two to two thoughts, I'll work in reverse order. I think any, any wisdom tradition of any kind, within yoga, or any faith based tradition. It sits on a layer of ignorance. The wisdom is there. But nothing is pure, that there is so much wisdom to a system that invites people to just come and to come enough that they then are qualified. Yeah. But as you point out, there's there's ignorance to that there's so much wisdom to a six day a week consistent, Ashtanga practice. There's also quite a bit of ignorance to that. And I think both are okay. I think both are okay. I think it's okay to be okay. With. Yeah, that the blind spots too. It's, it's good to acknowledge them. I think you're you get in trouble. I mean, that's when the dogma comes up. Right, like a dog dog was an autoimmune disease. It's just killing the thing it's trying to defend. Just killing what it's trying to protect. I heard that before. Well, I have no immunity. So maybe I just thought it that. It's true that if you do you do have autumn? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, I have a bunch of. So I'm always kind of fascinated by that idea. Oh, so glad you mentioned the body of my body is killing myself trying to not killing myself that really hyperbolic my body is in attempt to try to protect itself, it's creating all sorts of aggravations. And that that is how I see dogma in any system is, tensions are in the right place, but it is killing the thing it's trying to protect, or suffocating it or something, you know, or not allowing it to flourish in its fullest. Maybe you're not killing it. But so yeah, so I guess I feel like there's there is, there is no right way. Which, you know, reverse that to your original jumping off point about trying to get answers. Where, you know, there are no answers. I have this theory that practitioners can be broad or we can speak specifically to the Shang like Ashtanga practitioners, which I do think is different when we're talking about the modern yoga world. There's a very big difference between an Ashtanga practitioner and a very devoted practitioner of another kind because there's this really heavy burden on the student this when this is your practice, because the word practice really does mean a different thing within the Ashtanga tradition, as it does in the other yoga lineages. And I am convinced that anyone who start and continues down that path is not actually looking for answers. They are 100% comfortable with questions for the sake of questions. Because you couldn't be someone who needs an answer, you wouldn't keep coming. Oh, that's a great point. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. That's a really good point. And yeah, if you're in it, it makes perfect sense. It's like, yeah, if you walked out and you saw a bunch of people in a field, digging holes, and then they went home, and they came back, and the next day, they're digging the same hole again. And then the next day, there's like a few more people and then digging that dig and dig and walk by and they would say, what are they doing? They must be looking for something. What's under there, they're looking for something clearly, and they start asking him, the people digging the holes every day, you know the answer on their terms, because you know, you keep digging long enough, you're gonna hit your spring a while you're gonna strike gold, you're gonna find oil, things are gonna happen. And then you can answer this. Well, this is why I'm doing this is why I'm doing this. Those people who don't under the oh, there's a reason there's a reason they're digging, they're digging because of XY and Z. But the people who keep digging on some fundamental level, they know the only reason they're digging is just to get a little deeper. Because once they've struck gold, they don't stop. You just keep digging, you're gonna hit a root. And then you're gonna, you know, fight like it just it's but but it's but it's so hard to explain that to people who don't have that same need for no answer for no. You know, that whatever that person's the pursuit of that practice that absorption and the infinite, like, what are you doing? What are you taking for, like, you're digging to get deeper? That's the answer. But it's not satisfying. So we put it in the terms of the world and productivity, you know, things happening with meditation practices, like you better sleep, you know, clarity of thoughts, like we were trying to put, we're trying to design the reasons that people do these practices. When people who do these practices on some level they know, they just do them to do them. There's something there. It's just not an answer. Oh, my gosh, Meredith, that is so cool. I have never had that visual painted for me like that. And I think like, even if we just got off to the conversation right now, I got enough to like, just dig in my own like thinking. Yeah, right. That is so great. Because like when I when I think about this jungle room, and you see people, we just keep going in there over and over and over and doing it and doing it. And you're right, like, what, what are we doing, but I do think that personally, I definitely am extremely drawn to. I'm going to dig because I'm going to find something. So wait, let me just make sure I have this right. So are you thinking that I'm just riffing. So this is good. I said, Good. Clean the metaphor. All right. All right. Cool. It's positive that if you were if we Okay, so two different ways we could dig one, I can dig just simply to dig or two, I can dig because I'm digging for something. And so I did I get that you're thinking that we have to be digging for a reason, or else we just won't dig. So then I wonder what digging without? I think there's I think the reason is because every time you dig, you go deeper. Yeah, it's the deeper the depth, deeper. What are you? Why are you digging to go deeper, go deeper, not necessarily looking for gold for a root for Samadhi for non dualism, but you'll hit those things you'll get there. But you know, those are fleeting, even Samadhi is not a permanent state. One day you go back the next day. Yeah. Thinking about doing the laundry. She didn't stop going. You didn't stop going. You know, try to try to narrow the the target so that you pass through it more often and stay for longer. I know where I'm gonna end up when I keep digging. China I don't know that you were a kid. I still think that if I was such a nice that was an 80s thing. Like you're just you if you dig down you're gonna get to China. Like it was gonna say that and then I was like, that's weird. No, no, no, what I'm talking exactly what I was just thinking when I was saying I was like which is a really that's a really interesting point, right? Because I mean, we are going to, we are going to, oh gosh, this is gonna push buttons but I mean if we that's a whole nother subject that the world's superpowers we're all going to either a collide or be coalesce some way or both will be combo of collision and cold coalescing. But that might take us more down. I don't think that's political. Another question since you mentioned that you're a political correspondent. How can how can it okay, you're a yoga teacher and so you know how heated everything is. And so, let's not like let anybody know what our politics are. No one has to know what we think about any of that. But how as a teacher, do you approach keepings equanimity? In the yoga Shahla when politics comes up being a political correspondent thinking you had to have dug in deep, I can't even say digging in deep anymore, because we're gonna keep going to that analogy, but weird my. I love it. I love that was awesome. What? How do you married to a man who doesn't understand any of this? So he's always like, What do you mean? was saying things like were you running to? I saw that funny joke. Like, the only reason I would run is like, who's chasing me like, wow, yeah. Well, what do you want? What do you say that to my students all the time, whenever they're like, tripped up at they want to pose too much. Or whenever fear or aversion comes into the asana practice, I say nothing to run to nothing to run from. Like, that's what I tell them. Anyway, Politics does not come up in our shot. It doesn't. It's an interesting question, for sure. I'm trying to think just academically about how I would handle it. It hasn't very much for me. Or might what might be true is I might be very ignorant to that it has and because most of the people in Los Angeles and most of the people in a yoga community are assumed to have alignment that maybe it does come up and it's like explaining water to a fish. Maybe I'm not aware when it maybe I'm not aware of what it would feel like to someone who might not be of the same persuasion. Because to me, I'm like my answers like it never happened. But maybe it has and maybe maybe it hasn't maybe it hasn't been good answer. That's cool. Acknowledged. That's cool. I feel like it's a little bit more right now with global politics that seemed a little bit stickier. Just because we are, we are a truly diverse challah. In all of the ways like, that's not. Yeah, I love to hear in every way you can imagine the word diversity being defined, we fit that bill. So there might be a little bit more tension. I feel like right around that, but it hasn't come up. And I don't know of anyone who has felt like they are not. Welcome. Cool. As a result. You didn't go there? We're not We're not activists. Yeah. Yeah. Smart. mean, I don't even know promising. And I have the same thing in politics. That's awesome. Which is, which I kind of like, right, like we're very in addition to, you know, being colleagues, we're very close friends. We talk every day we talk about okay, like everything, but we don't talk politics. So I'm not I can't even be certain that we agree. I like that. That's really cool. Yeah, it's a safe space. It's like, look, let's just focus on what we're here for currently. You know what I'm finding interesting, because for those of you listening, if you haven't listened to the, it's like, maybe, I don't know, like eight or so episodes back, Bernie de Varshney. And so that's, Meredith, you teach at the same studio. So that's how I got a chance to meet you. Because I asked her if she could recommend somebody. And she said, Well, actually, I can. America is amazing. You got to talk to her. So um, but it's really cool to hear two sides of the story from the same place. Um, enjoy. I think that's a neat and I think, Nick, when, like you said, sometimes programs operate better if there's like, one cook in the kitchen. And you it sounds like you both had been able to have two cooks in the kitchen. What else? What else are you observing in your studio? What works with totally different background? Styles to like, yeah, pretty remarkable how well it works. That's cool. The common thread being of children, it sounds like I know, there's probably a lot of common threads, but you both are attempting to raise your children, young children and be yoga teachers at the same time, which is a challenge. Parenting and working, I think any job full time or just working period, as a parent is challenging. So let me take you down that track. What as a parent, what what are you noticing these days raising children? What are some of the things you've bumped up against? In terms of challenge and or joy? Or both? What is it there's a book a parenting book? Maybe five or 10 years old now? I think that the title was all joy and no fun. That was the title. Oh joy. Listen for that. That's good. It's a lot of joy. Oh, joy. That's great. It's a, it's a pretty good way to talk about parenting because it's debates are joyful, but it's not fun. I have no relationship with fun on my life right now. Children How old? Two, four and seven. Holy Moses. Yeah. Two forms. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So they're each about two years apart. My oldest two are about a little over two years apart. So I had three children within four years. And it was straddled the pandemic. It was wild. Which the pandemic went on for a long time in LA. Yes, yes. I'm really, very, I think when we're very close family, because of it, like very tight knit the five of us. That's yeah, yep. Amazing. So yeah, so what, I'll throw one at you, and then that you come back with something I, my son is 17. My daughter is 10. And my wife yesterday, flew up to take care of her mom who had an injury recently. So she's helping out for weeks. So this is my first official week alone with the kids now granted my son's 17 And my daughter's 10. So that's, there's a amazing dynamic that keeps progressing here has you know, but I would say it's a little easier for me than if you if you're, if you left the three of them with your husband. Today. like it'd be, it's a different story. We have a two year old 217 year old but and so I, my wife did a great job of like, getting all of the food for each day for each lunch packed up neat and nice. And she made up a list of like, okay, on Monday, this is happening and make sure she remembers this. And on Tuesday, he has that make sure you got this and she got a bunch of meals ready, like so. She set me up for major success. Right? So yesterday was my like, official first day and my daughter last night was definitely, you know, crying and emotional and really missing mom. And so there's a little bit like, I really appreciate that because I think Mom, mom is mom, like how can you can't I'm not saying I compete to be on equal level with mom. So she was crying, saying, Dad, I'm so sorry that I'm crying and I'm making you feel bad because I'm saying I miss mom. And it's because I kept saying like, Well, I'm here. I'm here for you. I'm here for you. And and so, uh huh. Oh my gosh, you know, joyful because I love him so much. But, and I wouldn't say it was like, super challenging, but I definitely you know, it pulls the heart in such a way that it's just, it's just amazing. You know, it's challenging and amazing at the same time. I don't know if that got your wheels to spin any direction. Like you get you going on something amazing. I mean, I feel beholden to my children in the way that I never have or would have expected or wanted to be beholden to anything in my life. And I feel like that is a great gift. And also something I'm sometimes very resentful of. Because even when the world allows me to take space, I don't want to and don't know how to and as someone who's done a very good job of trying to, you know, be both within the world, the of the world and not in the world and of the world. And sort of like not, you know, I've never get back to our bullshit sniffing out thing. Like, I've always kind of been a little bit of a freedom fighter wanting to kind of like, No, you know, no one I'm coming, no one I'm going maintain that. Fluidity for my own experience and things like I've lost that entirely. With my children. I don't have any. I don't have any sense of separate self around them. But I think that's a season, right? My kids are very young, and getting less young. And I think that it'll be actually a rough transition. It's just been so intense for so long. It's just the kind of it is kind of the season that I'm in and I just have my children later, like so many, you know, millennials have done and that's great. I don't I certainly don't like encourage people to have children younger because I don't think that anyone knows how just how hard it isn't how much life experience maturity you need. But there is something that I think is somewhat unique to people in my little slice of volume. This is when my children are done being young and needing me. I am like, on middle lane. Like, there's not sort of like No, like everyone's looking towards retirement at that point, like the idea of like, starting a larger project, which I've always kind of, like I was upgrading projects and, and things going on that I'm like, I don't know, Are these real things? Are these tinkering things? Because what, when they truly don't need me around the clock like they do? Like, I don't know, I'm kind of tired. I want to relax a little bit. Yes, but you know, I don't know, I really I would teach more, I would teach a lot more. That's what I will do I have to do, we're adding to that, you know, not yet announced but we're adding we're gonna pilot an afternoon Mysore program was trying to add some things to offer our community more opportunities to practice because now my kids are at the age where I can bring them with me, give them little Sesame Street and we run like didar Charlotte is very family friendly. So if we need to bring our kids we want our kids this the only way it works. So we really have like a community center vibe and that way. So things are starting to like free up and that's good. That's good for everyone involved. I feel like parent I feel like parenting. In these times. I think in your your opening you just asked for like, you know, a unique challenge. I am constantly feeling the I took I want to say this all the time and no one. I don't know if anyone else feels this way or if anyone makes this connection. But this video, the pressure to be present with your children is is is under assault every 30 seconds, because I am on 25 group text chains. I have a text chain. I have text chains that are like preschool moms, then three different groups of text chains within the preschool moms. And then I got another one started today. That's for one kid. In addition to work stuff, family stuff, all the friends from down the street to childhood. And then the only one that can't seem to keep up with us. I swear I'm the only person if I after this, I will send you a screengrab of my phone. I think I have like, my husband was the type of person who's like, he's very project manager type, like he can handle 1000 things that come to him in a day. No big deal. And I'm like, I just want to sit around like think all day. I'm like a big picture. Big picture, visionary type. I'm not very good at implementing things. But I feel like I'm under assault all day long. With the with the expectation of staying in contact with people. And I find it to be impossible. And I get flack from all of my friends. They sometimes play games where they will text and then they will set bets on how long it will take for me to text them back. Oh my god, like I like I get punked by them all the time. They're like play like I'm so bad. So I don't know how people are staying on top of it and also trying to be present with their children. So that seems to me like a unique. It's not, maybe it's not a problem for everyone. But I actually I conjecture that it is and they just don't feel it. As much as I feel something about it. I feel so oppressive to me. And I don't feel like it's real connection. But I'm a little bit of a social introvert. Like I have lots of friends and I like seeing my friends. But I get very overwhelmed very easily. So not that surprising for someone who likes to go to a quiet room for most of my day with my phone out of the way. And I just find it to be like a really unique challenge today in parenting where there's no there's no space for solitude, or there's no time when you feel like you aren't needed by someone else. Or in another place. It's it's probably an age old problem. It just seems to be on steroids. And I can't Yeah, I can't I feel like I'm constantly falling out of the loop. And that doesn't feel great. You know, I don't feel like I like to be like a reliable, dependable person that knows what's going on in everyone's life. But I don't know. That's really the biggest challenge for me is not it's not even like a larger criticism of media like I don't have, you know, I let my kids watch little TV like I don't have a problem with technology in general. It's something about the way III that we're all communicating in these really fractured ways that has left me falling further and further and further and further behind the curve. But, you know, I guess when it's all over, I'd still rather just hang out with my kids when I can. Yes. But if my parents listened to this, they call me back. For voicemail, they're just coming in on this. Why are you doing a podcast with this guy? You don't even know. And you haven't answered your voicemails yet. But see, this is the conversation. No, I'm just having fun. With five people. I met you today. And I would still rather to, you know, that's particularly hard for me parenting, I really appreciate you being extremely, very honest about that, and taking the time to lay that out, because I definitely feel that too. And I know, those of you listening are feeling that as well. I'm sorry. I mean, it's moving at a speed that is. I mean, I'm I'm 50. So, you know, I grew up in a totally different technological realm. And it's crazy to me how different it is now. I'm trying to embrace it. But at the same time, I hear you Maranatha here, it's It's wild. I mean, personally, at the end of the day, I mean, I'll get so tired that the thought of like, I think I just want to like do something with my kids. But I'm so exhausted, I just want to I have to just lay down, like I just have to lay down and so I'm with you. I know it's challenging. It's a big one. It's a real big one. But I guess you I know, you know this, and I'm not saying I'm out of the woods yet. But I guess I was gonna say it gets easier. But I'd be lying to you. It doesn't really get easier. My son. I mean, he's driving and oh, my gosh, it's a whole nother level of like, so, but it does get easier. I do think so it's just a different type of problem. It's just the challenges and the problems are just there. They're just different and unique. And that's, that's that is that is the that is the devotional element of the practice, right? Is that it to the nature of change? It's always changing. Like, yeah, it's, it's, uh, you know, that, like, change doesn't always mean progress. It's gonna get harder, it's gonna get easier. It's gonna get harder and easier. I yeah, I've mostly just opted out of staying in contact with a lot of people, to be honest. Thank you. Yeah. And I feel like I talked to my own my mother who raised us and then we were very small, like a small mountain town in Colorado. And that I'm sure had its own isolation and challenges, but I like to have this very, like a fantasy fair fantasy about. Oh, tell me again about how you'd be snowed in for months. Oh, gosh, right. Oh, gosh, no, just just take me to that place. Just take me there. My story on PTS. I mean, I'm one of those people that your point. Truly, I mean, she's more a little bit more social than me and doesn't you know, but she Oh, I'm sure I'm sure was like the worst. But for babies in blizzards. And I'm like, Oh, my God told me. Oh, yeah. Yes, I am. My life is good. I have far fewer challenges. Than then pretty much anyone in any point in history. So fine, I hear ya. And I get to do you know, I get to do this. I get to do this, which is not nothing. Oh, my gosh. So on that note, Meredith, I know, we're getting really close to our hour. So I'm just gonna throw one more thing at you. Just because I thought it was so great. I went on your Instagram today, which everybody listening. It's Meredith underscore Fogg underscore Libras. And I'll have that in the link. So it'd be easy. You can click on it. And two things that I love one, you're teaching a workshop called a knee Yama workshop, but you spelled Ni k n e dash Yama, and I like, love it. That's creative as heck. So classic, a workshop about the knees. But then the other little meme that you have, there's two little cartoon characters and one says to the other, what's your dream job? And the other one says, Why would I dream of labor? And they both stare at each other? And then the person starts walking away and the one says, Where are you going? And the other one says, to rethink my life. And I just cracked up because like, yeah, when you're overworked, you're like, my dream job. What pardon me is gonna be dreaming about working my butt off every day. So if you look underneath that one with my my coffee, my caption, I gotta read. I think it says No one to no one in particular posting with no one specific person in mind at Libras yeah so very passive aggressive side of my workaholic husband haha there's more to the story more. Oh yeah there's so much there's so many layers I wouldn't I did not pick that up I when I read the caption below I was like I don't get it that's what she's talking about but I didn't click like I didn't click on his his profile so now the thinking on my husband every time he goes you know no one understands anything. You're like us you're very funny but no but it's not but no one understand that's not what Instagram is for. I was like do it for me. Like as we started out like I have a you know, it's a personality traits flash maybe defense mechanism? I don't know. But I am definitely peddling humor. Like that's how I engage with the world is how I engage with people. How I handle anxiety, social anxiety, anything is just like being witty, funny, kind of silver tongue. So that's like, that's just how I process everything I have to have like, a little bit of tongue in cheek. Well, then my attitude. My My last question for you though is how do you get your friends back that punk you with the bets about how long it takes? There's gotta be a good comeback. There's got to be something you could do to comedically respond to the bets. How long is it gonna take? It's gonna take her two days, I'll give up that 20 bucks. It's gonna take her two days. There's got to be something I'll try to think of it when I know when I know they're doing it. I text back immediately. And they know they know that I'm messing with them because exclamation mark at the end are like two two exclamation. Kids. Exclamation marks. So yeah. This is great into the mind of there's there's a lot here. I might have to do a follow up a follow up podcast with you. There's I barely scratched the surface. But But thank you, Meredith, so much for taking time out of your busy day. I know you got away from the city or the country now. And so hopefully you have a awesome moon day tomorrow. No, it's great. I'm heading up to Santa Barbara to practice with Steve dwelley. He's a good teacher up there. Old school teacher. So great day and adult conversation. This has been a fascinating talk to you. Well, thank you, Meredith. I have family out there. So next time I come out, I really want to visit your studio. So I really look forward to it. And once again, thank you so much, and I will be in touch. You should absolutely come we have the best thing going there and it's all organic. We don't we don't really market or promote or anything and we wind up just it has just worked and that is the price credit for eight. You know, I've been with her for the past three years or so. But Shahla is a very uniquely, it runs on integrity. It really does hurt her contribution to the community is incredible. And I'm just it has changed my life to get to be, you know, there and doing the thing, but I can't seem to quit teaching yoga. Yeah, we would love to have you. Thank you so much, Meredith. All right. I'm gonna make a call to do it. All right. Have a great have a great practice tomorrow. Thanks. Bye bye. Native yoga taught cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com. And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time