Kassandra Reinhardt - Mastering the Art of Teaching Yoga Online: Tips and Strategies

Kassandra Reinhardt is a renowned yoga instructor and the founder of Yoga with Kassandra. With over 2.3 million subscribers on YouTube, Kassandra has built a successful online yoga community and is known for her accessible and inclusive approach to yoga.

Visit Kassandra on her website: https://www.yogawithkassandra.com/
Follow her on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yogawithkassandra
Follow her on IG: https://www.instagram.com/yoga_with_kassandra/

Key Takeaways:

• Teaching yoga online requires more than just yoga skills; it involves learning videography, editing, graphic design, marketing, and more.
• Finding your niche and focusing on a specific style or target audience can help establish your online presence and attract a dedicated following.
• The online yoga community is generally positive and supportive, with fewer negative comments and criticism compared to other online platforms.
• Starting small and gradually adding elements like a website, mailing list, and social media platforms can help you grow your online presence over time.

Thanks for listening to this episode. Check out: 👇
Free Grow Your Yoga Live Webinar - Every Thursday at 12pm EST
➡️ Click here to receive link

New Student FREE Livestream Yoga Special ~ Try 2 Weeks of Free Unlimited Livestream Yoga Classes  at Native Yoga Center. info.nativeyogacenter.com/livestream Sign into the classes you would like to take and you will receive an email 30 minutes prior to join on Zoom. The class is recorded and uploaded to nativeyogaonline.com  ➡️  Click Here to Join.

Practice to a New Yoga Class every day with our nativeyogaonline.com course called Today's Community Class with code FIRSTMONTHFREE.

Native Yoga Teacher Training 2024- In Studio and Livestream - for info delivered to your email click this link here: ➡️ https://info.nativeyogacenter.com/native-yoga-teacher-training-2023/

Subscribe to Native Yoga Center and view this podcast on Youtube.

Thank you Bryce Allyn for the show tunes. Check out Bryce's website: bryceallynband.comand sign up on his newsletter to stay in touch. Listen here to his original music from his bands Boxelder, B-Liminal and Bryce Allyn Band on Spotify.

Please email special requests and feedback to info@nativeyogacenter.com

Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. I'm so happy that you are here now. And especially because today I have a special guest, Kassandra Reinhardt. She doesn't need an introduction, you probably already know Yoga with Kassandra. She is on YouTube. And you'll find her at her handle @yogawithKassandra. Definitely go check her out on Instagram, her handle there is at @yoga_with_Kassandra. And then from there, there's links but I'll put it in the description below for her website, which is www.yogawithkassandra.com. And I'm just so happy to have this opportunity. To be honest, because I really love creating content, I'm thoroughly enjoying this podcasting process. So much like when I started doing this, I, I didn't realize I knew I wanted to do it, I didn't realize how much I was going to enjoy it. So when I found Kassandra on YouTube, and I saw how well she does and how much she's grown and how, how many people she's interacting with, in the digital platform, digital space, online space, I just thought well, it can't hurt to reach out to her and just just ask. Right?!? It can't hurt to ask. It really just can't hurt to ask. I mean, if anything, there'll be flattered that we asked, you know, the my, my next guest, hopefully they'll you know, and even if they don't respond, it's okay, I won't even I don't really need to take it personal. Right? If she doesn't respond to me. It's okay. I'm just gonna try it. Well, she did respond. And she's so nice. And I'm so thankful. Kassandra, thank you, I really appreciate you just taking time out of your schedule to help inspire myself and all of you listening if you're a yoga teacher and or if you're just a yoga enthusiast or yoga practitioner, and even if you have no desire whatsoever to create and teach through the online platform, just to hear the process and to hear some of the behind the scenes that go on. I found this fascinating. So let's start. I am so thrilled to have Kassandra Reinhart join me today on the podcast. Kassandra, thank you so much. How are you feeling today? Thank you for inviting me. I'm feeling really good. Yeah, it's a great day so far. Wonderful. Are you in Canada? I am I'm just outside of Ottawa, Canada. On the East Coast of Canada. It's December right now what is the temp up there? I'm down in Florida. So I know we're in a different climate situation what what is it feeling like there? The weather is mild, but we just woke up to a ton of snow this morning. So it's our first big snowfall of the season. So good, like a good five centimeters of snow. So it's really really beautiful outside right now. Oh, it's amazing up there. That is it is beautiful to see the snow like that we nothing really happens here in Florida. The only thing we really noticed is like like a little change in the temperature of the wind. But all the trees are green. And it only snowed once when I was a kid and like 1978 I think we got like a little tiny bit of snow but it melted as soon as it hit the ground. So nothing like what you get to experience. Know when when it's on in the winter. Where do you practice regularly? Do you practice at home? Or do you visit a studio nearby you mostly at home? Especially because like during the pandemic? We purchased this house that I'm in right now and it's outside of the city. So there are I mean, there are probably some studios I haven't tried them yet that are closer to here, but I'm kind of further away from everything like I'm pretty rural. You know, we're out in the country. So I tend to just practice that Home, like when we moved part of the requirements that I wanted to my home, I wanted to be able to film my yoga classes, you know, in home rather than doing what I used to do, which is rent studio spaces or get Airbnb these are, you know, I've done a ton of stuff over the years to try to get my recording situation. So I really wanted to find a space that I could practice in and film in and just have it all be central. So for the most part, I just practice right in this room that I'm in just at the back is like where my studio space and yoga mat and all that is laid out, that's cool. Looks like you have natural light, like the fairly bright. So that probably helps a lot. It's it's hard. Because I mean, if you ever have recorded or done online video, I have a big window behind me. So when you're backlit, you need a lot of like fake lights to kind of counterbalance that. So it took me a while to kind of get the lighting sorted out. But otherwise, just for my own personal practice, it's amazing because it's full of natural light, and it's beautiful. But whenever there's a camera involved, then you really have to, you know, get your technical hat on and try to work around it and make it look the best that it can. Yes, I mean, that's why I'm so excited to have this opportunity to speak with you. Because I've only started in the last, like since the pandemic started creating online content. And I'm learning so much. And by going onto YouTube myself and starting to upload videos, I found you, of course, because you're huge on YouTube. And so I have so many technical questions. But before we even go there, I'm curious. What was your introduction into yoga? How did you first what was your first yoga class and or how were you introduced to yoga? I don't remember my, like, I'm not, I don't remember who the teacher was in my first one, I started very randomly, I didn't know anything about yoga, I really just signed up to a drop in class with a friend because it was recommended, I came from the background of dance having done a lot of ballet growing up. And this was just recommended as something that could help make me a better dancer, almost like cross training for athletes, you know, it'll improve your flexibility help your balance make you stronger overall. So I had no context around the historical significance of yoga and the philosophy, the philosophy of yoga and the ethics that went along with it. I just truly did not know anything about it. So I think I was about 18 years old when I took my first yoga practice. And I just kind of did a few dropping classes every now and then very, not super committed to it right away. It's not like I did it once and fell in love and was blown away. Like that didn't really happen. It was kind of a slow and steady progression. It wasn't until I found like a really good teacher that I connected with. And, you know, as I'm sure you know, there are so many different expressions of yoga through different styles. So once I found what clicked with me, then I started to really understand like, oh, there's a lot of richness here much more than just, you know, the workout I thought I was getting because that's how it used to be promoted and advertised a lot, especially back in those days. Yes. So it was it was slow and steady. But I'm you know, 33 now and I haven't looked back and now it's what I do. So somehow I ended up kind of dedicating my life to it in a certain way. That is cool. How so if you the 1000 roundabout when you're 18? When did you embark on your first try teaching online? Or actually let me back up a little bit. Have you was your first foray into teaching yoga through the online platforms? Or were did you take up teaching in a studio or at a gym or something close by to you. I started in person, but it was very quick for me to also add online. So I probably I guess I started yoga in 2008. And I started teaching in 2013. So I did like my teacher training in 2012. So maybe four years ish or so after about a year long training. And I started teaching right away. I knew as soon as I started my teacher training that this is what I felt super motivated to do. Of course, I never it was never something I wanted to do full time I never really had that ambition of like being a full time yoga instructor, especially in the format that I was seeing it where it's like, you're an in studio teacher, which means you work at a lot of studios and you have to teach like 15 yoga classes a week in order to make ends meet. I never wanted that it was so the idea of being a full time yoga teacher was not something I was interested in. However I really did want to teach so as soon as I got my certificate I started applying to all the places that I could and I began offering classes mostly at gyms that's usually I find here anyway, that's like usually the easiest point of entry because with established studios, they want established teachers, right? They want people who have experience, I've done it for a while. So I started doing gym and community centers like places like that just a few times a week. And because I did want to get into studios and was having a hard time, that's when I had the idea. What if I put some classes up on YouTube, I can bulk up my resume, I can give hiring managers an idea of what my style is like, because the landscape this was, yeah, 2014 April 2014, is when I put out my first YouTube video, YouTube was a totally different landscape. You know, online yoga looked very different back then, almost 10 years ago than it does today. So I was very naive about it. I just thought I'll put a couple videos up, I can put that on my resume. And maybe that'll help me get the studio jobs that I've been wanting to get. So I started in person, but very quickly added online as well. Nice. Did you have a career that you were working alongside with that this time? Yes. So while I was doing my teacher training, I believe I was still doing last year of universities. So I did my undergraduate at Ottawa, you in psychology and linguistics. And then around that same time, I also got a full time job with the City of Ottawa, like the municipal government. So I just worked for the municipal government truly like a phenomenal job. When you're like 2324 years old, you know, all of a sudden, you have like pension and benefits and more money than I had ever seen at 23 years old, you know, fresh out of school. Yeah. And I really enjoyed it. So I liked that there was flexibility. It's cool. My coworkers, my boss, everyone was super supportive about me trying to do the online yoga thing. They thought it was really cool. So for a long time, as I was building yogurt with Cassandra, I was also holding down a full time government job and just doing more full time hours behind the scenes to try to get this up and running. So it was a tough like three to four years. And then I quit, quit my government job and just went to doing this full time. That's amazing. I mean, it's super inspirational. Because as a newbie, I think can you tell me when YouTube first opened up shop? When was YouTube? like YouTube? In general? Yeah. Was it 2009 or 2000? Something like that? Yeah, it's before 2010. I think like I created a channel, but then I just felt so overwhelmed with the idea. And I just left it. And I've only more recently started to like, publish these podcasts on there and try to create content, but I'm just amazed at the platform. I really enjoy it. Did you? Can you explain a little bit about what when you say it's changed a lot and a lot last 10 years? I guess one question I have is that I noticed that they do a relatively good job of like, most of the comments that I get are all really nice and friendly. Yeah, occasionally I get one that's like a little like, oh, what's going on there? And, um, have they improved their ability to filter the really mean and nasty stuff? What has anything evolved over the years for you on that? You know, I don't know if it's YouTube, that's filtering out. hateful or harsh comments. Yeah, I think there's something about just producing yoga content online that draws in pretty positive people. So the nature of the content that we produce, doesn't tend to attract a whole lot of criticism or haters or super mean, you know, feedback. I can say, though, that I got the most amount of negativity and hates and really harsh criticism from people. When my channel was quite small. I felt like when your channel was smaller, people think you're a lot more attainable, and like they can really communicate directly to you. And I would get just people who would really go out of their way to talk trash, you know, and to offer like, really hurtful negative feedback, and you think it'd be the opposite, because now I have a huge YouTube channel. It's like 2.3 million subscribers. So lots of use lots of comments. So you would think that it would only open me up to more criticism, but I've really found I don't know the Yoga people are just really nice. They're just really nice. So overwhelmingly, the comments are positive. And even if I look at other people's yoga YouTube channels, the comments are pretty positive. You know, even if somebody didn't like, the tone of your voice or your sequence. They might say something, but I find even the criticism will be pretty constructive. And it won't be super a personal mean attack. I think people are pretty nice. So I think we're lucky just in the nature of the work that we do. It attracts people who tend to just be maybe a little bit more friendly. Mm hmm. Good point. I think you're right. What was your learning process? At the outset of your channel? I mean, I'm guessing you, when you first started doing this, it sounds like you just had like a good idea, like, Hey, let me do this. And it can only help. And then the process of to where you are now, with having a large following, and being able to generate revenue from the teaching that you do online, was, was there a point in that process where it just seemed like a lot of work, and maybe you wanted to give up but then there was a breakthrough moment, or is it just feel like a steady, gradual kind of evolution. It was gradual in the sense that I never had like an overnight success, where, you know, I go from having no subscribers to all of a sudden my channel blows up, and someone famous gives me a shout out or something like that, like I've never had that it was always a fairly consistent, gradual growth over the past nine and a half years. But I certainly have had about a bazillion moments where I wanted to quit, especially in those first few years, because I don't know, I mean, there's just so many skills that you have to learn, you go into it thinking, I like yoga, I like teaching yoga, that's what I want to do. But then when it comes to teaching yoga, online, teaching yoga is just one of the 20 skills that you need. In order to make that happen. It's such a small piece of the puzzle, even though it's what you want to mainly focus on and what you are already knowledgeable in and skilled in. It's like, not that I was wasting time, because I'm glad I learned all these skills, but it's like, it's really hard to be confronted with the fact that I now have to learn how to record like videography, I have to figure that out, I have to figure out sound, I have to figure out editing, I then have to figure out like graphic design and how to market my videos, I have to build a mailing list, I have to create a website for myself, I have to figure out how to process payments. A huge hurdle for me was figuring out taxes like how to charge charge sales taxes for people in my country versus outside of the country, navigating currencies, the laws were changing, they still are changing all the time, when it comes to e commerce and digital products. That was a huge hurdle. And especially back then I would reach out to lawyers and accountants who had never really dealt with online entrepreneurship. And they also really didn't know how to help me. So that was really difficult. Because at the end of the day, I was like, I just want to teach yoga online, if I can make money from a great, you know, like, if I, if I can get paid for my time, that's amazing. But it's really, really, really challenging and tricky to get started. Plus, you know, just the customer service in terms of all the emails that you're getting the messages and the comments and all that kind of stuff. Plus, I was working a full time job and you know, trying to live a life. So yeah, it was more that that was really hard. The teaching yoga online part always felt easy, intuitive, enjoyable, even when I only had like 10 subscribers, even if no one would follow me, I think I would still be doing it. Because I really liked that part. It's really fun for me. But the rest of it. The actual entrepreneurship ship, part of it is very, was very challenging. Now Now I'm good. You know, I know what I'm doing now, almost 10 years into it. But that was a very difficult process. Oh, my gosh, I love hearing all that. Thank you for sharing all that. Did do Do you have a team? Yeah. Like yes, ish. I like to do everything, mostly myself. Like I like to fill myself and edit myself and build my own website and all that kind of stuff. So I really waited a long time before bringing people on. And I would get all these like business people who are like, the goal of business is to scale scale, scale scale, and you have to hire people, outsource and I was like, I just don't want to do that. Like I don't like the idea of having a lot of people doing lots of tasks. So the way I've been set up now for a few years, I have two staff members. So Amy was like my operations manager. She's been with me for like probably like five years now. Yeah, five or six years, and she maybe does like anywhere from 20 to 35 hours a week. And then I hired someone else. When Amy went on maternity leave, I hired someone else. Her name is Laura. And she does about five hours a week of like other kinds of tasks for me. So I like to do the bulk of like the content creation and that kind of process but something I really knew right away I had to outsource was the emails like the customer service requests, especially because like once you start having online products, mobile apps even just like a wider audience of people reaching out to you that became very overwhelming very fast. So that's something that I definitely never want to take back on for myself. That was really hard. But other than that, I keep it really small. If I have like a big project, like a big video shoot that I want to do I have a videographer Sometimes I work with his name is Ivan cook. So maybe like 20% of my videos he'll have filmed but I still edit them all myself. And the rest I just filmed and edited myself. I just prefer it that way. And nails and yeah, else. That's so cool. Cassandra, I know, it's, it is, um, I think this was kind of scared me at first with YouTube is I just felt like there's so many pieces that how in the world am I going to begin this and, and it wasn't until I started to study a little bit and, and do a little bit of training just to figure out some of the SEO part and, and even, like, got Canva. So I could make a thumbnail and just like little little by little started going oh my gosh, like that one little thing made a big difference like that. Yeah, it's like a like, so it is overwhelming. I'm so excited to hear that you do the majority of the work yourself. That's really impressive. Because sometimes when I see like at the level that you're working out with that I just think wow, like either 10 or 15. People like buzzing around her the whole time. And people are like, I know a lot of the other, like a few of the other big teachers on YouTube. And I think I'm more the anomaly with the way that I run it. Like, I just, I know that at the end of the day, what I don't want to do is really spend a lot of time managing people like that's not the work that I like to do. And it's like my goal has always been to get as big as possible by staying as small and manageable as possible. I feel very responsible for the people that I bring on, like, these are like, these are my employees, like I want to be able to take care of, you know, serve them properly, you know, and give them like good salary and stuff like that, and really be able to, like take care of them. And if you have too many people, I know that you end up now being a manager of people, and I don't want to do that. So I try to I have people that can still hopefully stay with me for a very long time, we all have our roles and our tasks that we do, I certainly wouldn't be able to do it without them like now it would be truly impossible for me to purely be a one woman show that's just not realistic. Not possible. But at the same time, you know, could I be bigger and more successful if I had more people probably, but it's not what I want. Like, I'm really happy with this setup that I have a lot of other of the big YouTubers have a different CEO, you know, like it's not them who are CEO, there's someone else co head of the company, they have lots of different kinds of staff. Maybe even shareholders, you know, like, like, I don't think anyone's public, but it's like they have people, staff teams, and it works really well for them. I just knew that's not what I want for myself, that's not the kind of life I'm trying to trying to build, it just seems a little too daunting to me like a string, I hear you, it's really cool to hear that you have gotten clear about how you want to manage and contain it and that you're kind of holding true to that. Because you're right. I mean, there's always that I have the same thing where people are, we have we have a yoga studio, my wife and I and people are often encouraging us like open another location and branch out and and I've taken a similar type of approach of like, I just really want to do one really well. And I don't want to be pulled in too many different directions and then put have like three not really well running spaces. But when and just kind of do one well so I really do appreciate hearing that from you that you've you kind of have that as a focus, but I also see that you would need some some help like you're saying, like you know when you get like 1000 piece puzzle, like my strategy personally is I like I build the border first. Like I'll get straight pieces. And I know you said that with like doing this online teaching like if there's if for those of you listening if you are curious about how to or want to what type of advice Cassandra would you give like that the me and anyone else listening who is like they we just open the puzzle up and there's a bunch of pieces in front. What do you think we should do first? Honestly, I always give the advice if people are new to teaching online and they want to give it a go. Don't spend money on equipment right away, use what you have, give yourself six months and see if you actually even like it and then maybe consider investing because it just might not before you some people thrive as teachers when they actually have the energy of the students in front of them. It's very different when you're teaching to a camera you know and there you don't get that immediate feedback from people sharing the space with you, I love it, I enjoy. I'm, I feel like it works well for my personality, I like being on camera, I'm okay with it, I think I'm able to offer a fairly authentic experience as if people were really in the room with me. But for some people, like I've had a friend tell me it felt really soulless to her. And she really, really didn't like it. And that's great, you know. So it's like, I'm so glad that she didn't go and spend a ton of money on a nice camera and microphone and spending all this time trying to like learn all of these skills, like, don't put so much pressure on yourself to have everything perfectly established from the get go. I think there's mentality that gets thrown away, or like, preparation is great, but don't get too caught up in it, it's okay to learn as you go. And for your first few videos to not be that good, you know, to not have a great yoga class to not have a great thumbnail to not have a great title, to not have everything optimized and perfect and ready to go with a website and a mailing list and promotional offers and affiliate links and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, everything else that you see other people, don't worry about it, like don't worry about it, you'll build on it as you go. You know, if you're really trying to compare yourself, go look at that person's first video. That's what you're really meant to be comparing it to right like not their finished product, took years and years to refine and acquire. So I think really simplifying it as much as possible. You want to see if you can teach online, great. Grab your phone, set up your space filament, do minimal editing, upload it, you can do a quick little thumbnail on Canva. Share it with your friends and family. And notice what kind of feedback you get. And if you felt like that was time well spent for you. And did you enjoy the talent of this? And then every month, you can kind of add another element like okay, what would be really nice for me to have, I probably should have a website, you know, I probably should have another kind of social media platform that people can reach out to me, Instagram or Facebook or something like that. I probably should have a mailing list. You can layer those in over time. You don't have to be like, I don't like the approach of waiting until you know everything to begin something. I like to just begin something and see what the next natural step will be. I'm not saying that My way is the best way. It's literally just the only way that I know how to do it. I get too bored of planning. I'd rather just start figuring out figure it out as I go. That's so cool. Thank you Cassandra's super motivational, because I love that gives me tons of motivation to keep going. Oh, good. Yeah, definitely keep going. I mean, I feel like for the first year, I had, like 100 subscribers, you know, and like no one following me. So yes, yes. Cool. Good to know. What about this, like, talk about like, you really got a niche down, you gotta get your niche. And you gotta like really hammering on your niche, because like, maybe yoga is like, like, if I think about yoga, I go, Well, that's a niche, right? Because if I was going to, I could think about like mechanics and musicians and AR, and there's like a billion things in the world that we could try to teach online. So obviously, if I go for yoga, that's a pretty niche subject. But then you get into yoga and you start looking at the vision of like, yoga for back pain, yoga for neck pain, yin yoga, there's like so many little niches within yoga. What are your thoughts there? Like? Just obviously, you gave great advice, like just get started. But have you played with that and toyed with that? And do you experiment constantly with that? Or what? And if you had to describe your niche, what do you think your niche is? I do think it is important, especially when you're first starting off, it can help to establish you and to grow your channel. A mistake I did early on was to try to be everything for everyone. So to try to offer all styles of yoga, vinyasa power, Hatha Yin, restorative. And at the end of the day, I had to be like, Well, I'm not actually an expert in all of these styles. And they're not actually what I personally enjoy the most. Like, I know that what I enjoy, and what I'm good at is vinyasa, and Yin. So already that was a good opportunity for me to narrow down a little bit and to get a little bit more specific on what I wanted to be focusing my effort and energy on like, especially with yin yoga was a helpful one for me to focus on because there wasn't a lot of yin yoga offered online, especially at the time. So that really did help to establish me a little more. And there really is an advantage of focusing even when you think it's like such a small population and you think there just really aren't a lot of people who are going to look for that video. When you open it up to the entire world online. There are a lot more people than you think, you know, so if you can get really focused. If you primarily want to work with athletes, you know, that's a great thing to focus on. Or if you're doing postnatal, or prenatal, that's another great one. I find as I've gotten kind of more popular and my channel has grown, I've been able to branch out maybe a little bit more. But in the beginning, it was really helpful for me to really just focus, vinyasa, and yin yoga, this is what I like. In the beginning, especially I was doing a lot of intermediate specific vinyasa practices, because I found that that's what I preferred, like those were the level of students that I prefer to teach. And it was more compatible with my level as a student as well. And I found that online, there was a lot of beginner focus stuff, but not something after. And I know that right now, a huge gap offered online is actually advanced yoga classes. Like there's a huge need for really advanced yoga classes. Even though most people who practice yoga are not advanced, there are enough people who are looking for those kinds of classes that are really going to challenge them, that that would be today. Like, if I had to start over like that would be a great niche, you know, to branch off into even something like chair yoga, limited mobility, yoga, like they can all be really great. It just it has to be authentic to you. So you're asking yourself, what am I really good at? Like, what am I really good at teaching? What do I care about the most? And then what are people looking from? Or looking for from me? So like, what's the middle point between those three questions? Great. When 2020 came around, you've already established yourself with the ability to be in your home and not be on public and generate revenue. You were like, legs ahead. Right here. Yeah. Very lucky. Yeah. Very grateful. But there's no notice in that. What were some of the thoughts you had, or realizations? Or what? What trance? I mean, I never want to I mean, I guess it's important to speak about positive things that have happened. I know a lot of people struggled and had a very challenging time, lost their jobs, lost loved ones, with the pandemic, it was difficult. So not to just highlight your successes during that and not take a look at the fact that it was a challenging time for everybody. But what did you notice in relation to the amount of people that maybe were reluctant to utilize resources, such as video and teaching online? And then there's been a huge wave, obviously, of people that now are open to it, what was your observation in that experience? It's funny, because it's like, I started in 2014. And I spent, you know, those next six years, just like screaming from the rooftops to all the yoga teachers, I know, like, get online, like, it's great. Like, there's potential here, you might love it. Like there's endless opportunity and possibility. And there was a huge stigma with teaching yoga online. Like I got a lot of flack early on online yoga teacher of like, it's not real yoga, it's not authentic. It's not blah, blah, blah, right? Because it's different from how we were presented with yoga in our traditional studio settings. And thankfully, I didn't listen to that. And I just kept going, because I was like, No, I feel very much in my purpose. With this, I'm able to bring yoga to people who don't have the luxury of having a yoga studio down the road, who don't have the luxury of being able to afford a $20 yoga class plus a babysitter plus transit, you know what I mean? I was like, I'm actually bringing yoga to a lot of different people that I otherwise would, they would otherwise maybe never have the opportunity to practice. So I always felt very confident in my purpose and very ethical, I loved, always loved that people can practice with me every day for the rest of their lives if they want. They never have to give me a single dollar. And yet, I'll be able to make a really great living for myself. Like I love that, you know, that felt so good. But I got a lot of flack for it. And then 2020 comes and now they're all scrambling right to get online and to get their ducks in a row. And now they're DMing me how do I do this? You know, and I'm like, I've been trying to gain yours. So I felt bad because it was really hard to see so many people struggle like so many people in the wellness, fitness, yoga, any kind of that industry, like that was such a hard adjustment, you know, and it's a time in the world where people kind of need their wellness practices more than ever, and the people who are best skilled at offering them all of a sudden couldn't and didn't know how. So it was hard. And there was a part of me that was like, Oh, well now you like it right now. It's fine. years ago, you were judging me now. It's cool now it's fine. Bye Yeah, whatever, I brushed it off, you know, be the bigger person, I'm glad we're all on the same page now, and that it's a lot more acceptable to be an online yoga teacher. And the advantage, I guess, in terms of the pandemic, when it comes to being an online teacher in this realm is that not only are there now more teachers offering classes online, but the general interest of the population grew a ton. So now there are way more people who are open to doing online yoga classes online fitness online meditation than ever before. So I don't want people to get discouraged and feel like it's too crowded, you know, and like, it's too late. Like, even though yes, there are definitely more teachers offering it than when I first started. There are also 100 times more students and more people available and searching. So it's really, really never too late at all. Like, there's still time if you have the desire and the calling. That's good to hear. Because you're because you're right, sometimes somebody gave me this statistic of the amount of hours that are uploaded either per minute or per hour. It's yeah, it's like staggering. How much content is floating around in the cloud right now. And so you go, yeah, oh, my God, just this little tiny drop in this huge ocean. How and why. And I mean, it's just, you know, just seems so overwhelming, like saying at the bottom of, you know, the mountains and go on, I'm gonna go all the way to the top, like, wow. But I love how you're pointing out like, it's just one step in front of the other, don't ya don't over don't and first see if even like it, I did see an article that you wrote, where you kind of mapped out some of these strategies, which I thought was really important. And I almost wished I'd read your article before I began. And, but um, that's really cool. And I'll put a link to that in the notes. You can check it out. Yeah, please tell me, it's simple. It's fairly simple. But simple doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Like, if it's easy, everyone would be doing it right, everyone would have the exact same level of success. And this applies to any field that you're in, in any endeavor, even though the steps can be simple, it still is going to take a lot of persistence, and a lot of grits, you know, it's just going to take so much time, and it might not always be linear. That's where like a lot of the challenge comes from is just being able to persevere even when you're not getting the results you were hoping for, you know, you're acting as if I spent the first three years acting as if I had a big audience. And I really didn't, you know, but I was just hoping that one day would happen. Do you think that's important, though, like, when you hear about the digital avatar, like, I remember reading that you had written a little bit about that. But um, or then this idea that when you teach, instead of thinking, I'm teaching to a million people, if I think about Majan, I'm teaching to my mom or my dad. And when I'm talking to the camera, I'm just talking to my mom or my dad, or if I'm thinking about someone in a specific age group, or gender or something of that nature. Have you explored that? And have you noticed any sort of difference in there and the response that people give you in relation to how they relate with you? I think I always, so because I started in studios, I kind of tried to just mimic the way that I showed up in studios, I wanted it to be the same as the way I showed up in my online yoga classes. So even though I'm talking to a camera, I was really imagining that I was in the studio space, and I was greeting my regulars, you know, I was greeting the people that I normally teach once a week. So really kind of envisioning that and like creating that space for myself in my head of like, it's not a camera, it's a student, and they're looking for my guidance, and they want to know how to be able to do this safely and effectively, you know, so it definitely took time, you end up talking a lot more than you would in like talking as you're doing the poses a lot more than if you were teaching like an in person studio class. So there were quite a few adjustments in that way where it felt a little bit more awkward. And I really had to adapt my teaching style. Because usually in a studio, I wouldn't be doing all the poses with the students, I'd be stopping and looking at them and answering questions and walking around the room, you know, being a lot more hands on and, you know, actually teaching to the people that are in front of me. But of course with the camera, it's a little bit harder because I have to be able to anticipate their needs without seeing them. So when I'm in a pose, I have to remember what does a beginner someone who's never On this before, what are the common mistakes in this pose? What are they probably doing at home? You know, even though I can't see them, you just have to be able to anticipate it a little bit more. And I think that just comes with experience, especially experience of teaching in person to real people, it will help you a lot. As an online teacher. That's great advice. In your personal practice, what have you been inspired by lately, I had a chance to go take a workshop this weekend, and I found you just to be a student, and be with a teacher and oh, I just came out going, oh, man, I love yoga, I can't wait to get back in the room or just back online and teach. What is something that you've recently sought for inspiration yourself. I mean, I do try to do other classes, you know, every now and then whether it's just like a regular drop in class that I'm doing like, a few weeks ago, I did a drop in online Kundalini yoga class, you know, and I don't really practice Kundalini yoga. I've done it only a few times. But I was like, I don't know, I just, I wanted to do something completely different than what I normally do just to really like shake things up and get out of my regular pattern of behavior. Because sometimes, having taught for so long, I annoy myself a little bit, because I feel like I'm repeating the same cues, you know, and I'm like, Okay, girl, like, it's time to refresh or something. And no one has ever told me that, like, I've never gotten negative feedback from students. But for me, sometimes I'm like, I'm bored of myself, I need something new. So I do try to just stay on top of just doing classes with other teachers, not staying. Like there's something really beautiful about studying with one teacher for an extended period of time. Like I study a lot with a teacher that I love and admire siana Sherman, who did like a 300 hour teacher training with her I do a lot of stuff with her. Yeah. Wonderful. I get her emails. I like her stuff. That's cool. Oh, yeah, she's amazing. She's wonderful. She's the best. So I love to study with her. But then I'll also make myself try someone totally new that I've never tried before. Yes, you know, with no preconceived notions, even just with online, just click a random video, give it a try and see how it goes. Just to make sure that you're not stuck in your habits and stuck in your regular patterns. Even exploring, like different kinds of modalities, like, I know, for me, in my personal practice, I'm kind of a creature of habit, like, I tend to like the same stuff every day, you know, I'll always do a child's pose, I'll always do a low lunge. Like, I'm pretty predictable, and what feels good for my body and what my body needs. But I want to make sure that when I'm teaching, I'm keeping it as fresh and innovative and up to date on information, you know, and education and knowledge as possible. So I do try to push myself a little bit in that arena. Nice. I noticed that you just said, I went and took a drop in online class, differentiating perhaps between watching a YouTube video but then signing up for I'm guessing a live stream class where there was Yes, exactly. And I have a friend when I told him that I was trying to get my I was excited, I'm gonna, I'm gonna really work on my YouTube channel. He was like, and part of my ideas that I originally thought myself, I don't want to do YouTube, I'm going to start a like a paid platform. And so I started uploading videos onto that. And then I found well, how in the world am I gonna get people to actually want to go on that platform? And so I told my friend, I was gonna start going on YouTube. He's like, man, he's like, no one's ever gonna go to your paid platform, because you're giving everything for free over there. So why would they even come over? And do that? So two questions a are one. Is that true or false? And two, why did you choose to pay for a drop in for that particular class that you took versus two? So yeah, there are, like I would say, maybe like, two schools of thought on it. I'm of the mentality. I offer everything online pretty much for free. If I put something behind a paywall, that's not on YouTube. It's either because it's just my mobile app. So for example, my mobile app has all of the content that's on YouTube, but it has separate perks where people can watch without advertising. They can download the video for offline use, they can use the Scheduling Calendar, I bring in guest teachers, so there's exclusive content that they can't find on YouTube. So like that's one way to do it. That's cool. Or I'll do like an exclusive series that isn't available on YouTube. But there are other people like someone else who's on YouTube, Sarah Beth yoga that I know quite well, her model is different. So for YouTube for her, she doesn't offer anything above 20 minutes, I think like, so all of her YouTube classes are shorter format. And if you want long format classes, that's what she keeps behind the paywall, like, through a horn mobile app, so that for her that works, and some people choose to do it that way, you know, where they'll have like only a few things on YouTube, but then the bulk of the content, the specialized content will be behind some kind of paywall. Another, like, I don't do live stream classes, it's something that I would love to do in the future. But I am out in the middle of nowhere, and we don't have the internet connection for it yet. So maybe one day, I'll be able to start offering that but you know, the, the other way that it can work for people, for example, the drop in that I attended, and maybe could work for you, as well as as a yoga studio, they offer the class in person, and then they also livestream at the same time. Yes. So even though I can't attend the class, because it's too far away, I was able to just drop in, and I'd rather do it at home anyway, then actually go to the studio. So that's that's how it works for other people. And that can be a really, really great alternative as well, because you're able to make the fee lower than what a drop in rate would be in person, right? Because it's virtual. But then you're still able now you're not capped, you don't have a cap size, based on the size of your studio, you can actually welcome a large amount of people. And I was surprised I had never done their lives to livestream classes. And there was like at least 10 of us doing it online plus their regular 12 or so in studio. So I think it's a good a good avenue requiring not too complicated setup for studios, but it seems to be a nice avenue for people to explore. That's cool. And we do do that. And as some of the reason that people do like to do the live stream versus recorded classes that they feel like it holds them accountable a little bit more like the fact that actually starts at a specific time. And yes, exactly. Yeah, that's cool. And I last night, because I was in the car put on a podcast, and there's an there's an interview that just came out on. I believe it's a podcast called the daily and I think a New York Times journalist just interviewed Elon Musk. It's fascinating. Whether whether people like Elon or not, like wow, his the way his mind thinks. And he was talking about AI. And he definitely made me go home. And whenever I listen to him speak about AI go, Oh, my goodness, I am in I think AI is incredible. So I'm not like anti AI. What is your thoughts with like, you've watched this kind of steady progression with internet technology grow and expand, and you're familiar with all these algorithms and that type of thing? Do you have any? What do you think? Like? Maybe not to predict the future? But like more on the level of like, are you okay with it? Does it make you nervous? What do you think about it all. Um, it's hard for me to accurately imagine what role AI will take when it comes to the online yoga space or fitness or wellness in general, I know it is going to happen. And it'll probably be easier than ever to just have like, some kind of Avatar as your instructor and they'll be able to pull all of my cues, you know, like AI will be able to learn from my classes, how to be a good yoga teacher, and it'll be able to create a sequence and it'll be able to generate some kind of Avatar as a teacher to lead that class, it will happen, for sure. Will people like it? I don't know, I'm not really, I don't feel particularly bothered or concerned. At this point. When it comes to teaching yoga online in this way. It might just be because I have a limited imagination. And I'm not thinking of all the ways that AI could play a role in this space just yet. But I don't think people are ready to do away with people like at all. So I think we're still good for a while. Yeah, and if there is a I, I think if anything, AI might just make it easier to streamline the process of filming, editing, uploading, you know, optimizing your videos and getting the content out to users like I'm sure that will help quite a bit. But in terms of actually replacing the teacher, I'm sure it will happen. I'm sure it will be an option. I don't know that it will be the desire. That's that's so interesting option. then that people will actually want I think, I think you're right. Let's see, I hope you know, what do you think? Ah, I hope you're right. And I will, I'm really glad to ask you because I hadn't conceptualized that idea of, like you said it being able to learn from all of the audio and video that you've already put out to be able to synthesize all of that. And I guess, um, you're right, I hadn't even thought about a CGI created human that looks just like me. And you right now, like they having this conversation, it'll look totally like us create a conversation off of this conversation. And so I guess, yeah, I haven't really thought about that part of it yet. You know, I, I mean, another another thought that he that he kind of opened my mind with a little bit as he was talking about SpaceX and launching all these rockets out into space. And he said that he doesn't think we should be a single planet species. And that we need to be on as many multiple planets as possible. I was like, Whoa, like this is. I mean, that's just like, wild to me. So so I don't know I get but ultimately, it kind of made me feel like, wow, we're living in such an incredible time. Like, we're living in such an amazing time right now. Like what's happening and the speed with which things are evolving and shifting. But I guess that's where I find yoga to be. I'm so glad I have yoga, because this morning, when I got really stressed out. I just had that thing of like, okay, what's, what's my heart doing right now? Like, let me try to come back down into my body. A little bit, can you can you talk a little bit about some different practices that you employ just in your own stress management? Yeah, I mean, I do try to do a little bit of yoga every single day, even if that's just like 10 to 20 minutes of mindful movement on my mat. Something that helps a lot for me is just going for a walk every day. Like I find that to be the best anxiety busting tool at my disposal. Something about being outside, regardless of the weather, helps me to like process thoughts, I usually get my best ideas when I'm walking anyway. So that's super like a non negotiable for me. I always journal a little bit before bed as well, like that's a really good practice. If I didn't do my, I mean, sometimes even if I did, but I do like to do like a few yoga poses in bed just to help me go to sleep at night. That's been really helpful. I have been someone who's suffered with insomnia quite a bit. It's been a while since I've had a long time since I've had a flare up. But yoga in bed is super, super, super helpful. Gotcha. Nice. What is your I know, I'm very grateful for the time that I have with you. And I want to stay on on schedule for you. But I'm curious. When you did mention app, how important is it to do the app? Would you recommend it? In what way? Like if you were to get your own app? Yeah. Like you have your own app, how benefit vert, like the amount of work that you'd have to put in maybe it's not that much work, once you have it set up. And you're always it wouldn't be the first thing I do. Like, it would not be the first thing I do, I think an app is a nice thing to have down the line when you already have a well established. customer base, you know, like a community, like if you already have a community of people, then you can introduce the app. Otherwise, I think it's a really high cost upfront, and you know, high monthly cost, and you might not be getting the benefit. I find that like if you're starting off, and you're on YouTube, like I think the easiest thing that you can do is to put together some kind of just one paid program like an actual course, that's an easier thing, I think, to market and to sell and to offer. It's also easier, because you can just ask your community like what do you need? What's important to you? Like, what are you wanting to learn about, you know, and just package that up into like a paid program can be really helpful, I would focus on that just because it's something you can do yourself, you don't really have to implicate other third party people. You don't have high costs. I love my app. My app is amazing. Like now it is definitely like a huge pillar of my business just as much as YouTube is. But it's something that I've only had for, I don't know, maybe four years or so. So I already had like a decent amount of YouTube subscribers and people on my mailing list, like already had a community so the app I knew would be a good way forward. I also wanted my app to be something that wasn't going to feel like another huge thing on my to do list. I didn't want to over stretch and overreach myself. Like some people when they do an app, they're like, every week, I'll give you an exclusive video. And we'll do a live q&a. And we'll have a book club, and we'll have guest teachers, and we'll have live classes and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, Ooh, I'd rather my app not cost very much. Like, it's 1399 a month. Yeah, pretty cheap, you know, in general, but at least that way, all like, you're just gonna get the YouTube stuff. Every now and again, like once a month, I have like a bonus exclusive piece of content. But the bulk benefit of the app is just there are no ads, you can create your own playlists, you can download them for offline use, you know, like there's more flexibility in how you consume my content. And then you get a few bonuses, you know, but I'm not overwhelming myself by creating a super high monthly price, and having to create a bunch more content because I knew that wouldn't be sustainable. When you start an app. It's like, it's hard to stop it. Like, if you're gonna go down the route of the app, like you're kind of committing yourself in the long haul, you know, so you got to really be sure. Great advice. I saw that you I don't know how long ago you released them, but that you have like, positive affirmation cards that you've created. Can you Yeah, a bit about what the motivation behind that? In creating that was? Yeah, totally. I was. So I guess it's been over a year now that I released this book called The Year of yoga, and the publishers had approached me and they said they wanted me to collaborate on a book. And I was like, you know, I've already written a book like at first I wasn't really sure because it's so much work like it's an it's so much work to create a book and to write it and books are not huge moneymakers. Okay, so you in terms of like the value of your time, you always lose money pretty much when you're writing a book. So it really has to be like a passion project, something you're super pumped on. So at first I was like, I don't know, if I'm ready to commit, like a whole year of my life to writing this book, I'm not sure. But then I looked at their website, the publishers called Insight Editions, and I saw, they also make journals. And they also make tarot cards and affirmation cards and candles. And I was like, well, like, I'll write your book, if you let me make my own cards, like, because I was like, that's cool. Like, that's something I would love to do so so, so much. So I was like, if I can do my own affirmation cards, because I use affirmations all the time in my classes, something that I'm very much known for. So I was like, if I could have my own deck, my own journal, my own little gift set, I was like, All right, whatever you want, like, let's do this, and they were super on board. And then I was like, Well, I want to write a book. That's more than just a regular yoga book. So I was like, I've already done that before. And I'm proud of my previous book. But it's so much work. And I was like, what is going to set it apart from the billions of other yoga books that are already out there. So because I'm a YouTube yoga instructor, every sequence inside the book, I was like, I'm going to film that sequence, we're going to add a QR code to the page. So when people scan the book, they get taken to the online video version of that class. So you can either follow along with the book, or with the actual video, so I doubled my workload, but that's okay. That's how it kind of came about. That's brilliant. Yeah, I was really happy with it. It was fine. Like, obviously, then it meant I had to create, like, 12 yoga classes and you know, a bunch more work and all that, but like, it's not that brilliant. Like, yeah, a lot more work than Yeah, that's really cool. Cassandra. I mean, you got you got your background in. You said psychology. That's what you with university study. But you're such an entrepreneur, like, where does that come from? Were your parents entrepreneurial? Did you just have that bubbling inside ever since you were a kid? Like, Where's that coming from? I mean, definitely not from a childhood thing. Like I surprised myself. By being like crafty in this space. It's definitely not something I thought I would have ever ended up in. Although I don't know why because my family is very entrepreneurial, but I had never imagined that for myself. I I don't know why I just imagined I would always have a more kind of traditional kind of career path. And I'm glad I don't because I'm I think I'm quite well suited to the more entrepreneurial lifestyle. I like to be very creative with it. But yeah, I kind of just, I don't know, I just ended up here and I rolled with it. And so when I get an idea, I try my best to make sure that it's really cool. And I personally really enjoy your channel and your videos. I think you do an amazing job. And so when I wrote to you to do a podcast with me, I don't want to say I was nervous, but I thought oh man, she's she's got so much going on. I just wouldn't even expect that you would write me back. I mean, but I can't hurt to try. So the fact that that's the spirit, honestly write me back about it, and that you are so down to earth and relatable and willing to share and willing to join me here really does speak volumes about where your heart is coming from. And so it's very refreshing. And I truly appreciate it. Is there anything you'd like to share with all of us? Who may and our listeners, before we close? Do you have any like, I mean, not that you have to drop some grand, you know, tidbit of wisdom, because I feel like I really wanted to ask you a lot about the actual ins and outs of what it how you do what you do. So I really appreciate you being willing to share all that and being open about all that. Sometimes people are, you know, a little nervous about sharing how they make a living, right? Because it's like, I don't want to, I don't want to create more competition for myself. So let me hold back. This is also something I thought was really fascinating about Elon was that all of his patents for his space program, he isn't patenting them, he's like, putting it out there. Like, if you can use this technology and come up with something better than I have, please do, because I want some competition so that I will then be better, which I find, you know, is really, I don't know, if we take that approach, the fact that you mentioned to that the beauty of offering something for free, so that may be somebody in some corner somewhere that might not have access to a lot of resource, but they do have a phone. And that's what's fascinating is that even in places where you think, how are they able to afford a phone and a plan where a lot of the other infrastructure for survive for living is so minimal, but it does seem like a lot of this technology is at every single spot on earth now, so I could be wrong, I could be wrong, but it seems that way. So um, I think like you said, making an accessible where somebody can now have someone coach them through a child's pose, or again, yoga pose after a stressful day is like very giving. So I feel like that's in your nature already. But I think that's cool. I do appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, thank you, I really appreciate the kind words, I tried to I tried to get to like, answer all the emails that come my way, it does get hard, you know, like, that is the downside kind of a when you grow, I do feel bad. Like when I first started, I took such pride in answering every comment myself and answering every email myself. And now I'm not really able to do that. But whenever I can, I do try to, like make a point to say yes to people, you know, because I remember, like, I remember, six, seven years ago, like I was you I was the person who was you know, smaller, and I was reaching out kind of cold calling, you know, cold emailing a bunch of people just to try to like, have some kind of interview and have some kind of connection and have some kind of contact. And most of the time, it didn't really work. But sometimes it did. And those little wins, like really do add up. And that's like, that's really where the grit comes into play. You know, like, if you're gonna it doesn't even matter, like what it is that you're trying to build. But you have to be willing to try to build it, you know, and to not have it worked out really well. But then you try again and you try again. And you try again and you try again. And you try something that other people aren't trying you know, until you find what works for you. I don't know if I have like some kind of like giant thing of wisdom, but kind of what you were talking about about the the Patton's a guiding principle for me has always been a rising tide lifts all boats, you know, so really like shifting, like my teacher, siana Sherman, she has this statement that she uses a lot where she says we shift from competition to collaboration, you know, and I think that's a really important mindset shift to adopt, even when you are personally working towards your own goal. Can you look at other people as your collaborators versus looking at them as your competition? And whenever something good happens to them? Can you trust that this will help you as well? You know, what is good for one will be good for the other at the same time. So when I get a win, that's why I said yes, there are more teachers online now than ever. There's more competition, but it's okay because a rising tide lifts all boats, it means there is now more demand more than ever for online yoga classes. Right? So it doesn't have to be a deterrent. It can be a motivator, it can be a good thing and means more people now want online yoga classes. Great. See it that way. You know, that perspective shift has helped a lot and it's helpful especially in the beginning where it feels like you're just like banging your head against the wall because things aren't working out. Okay, you want them to Oh man, that is so great. That was so great. I Well, I feel it. Thank you, Cassandra. This is a, you're giving me a little little nudge. And I appreciate that. It feels great. I was really so excited for this opportunity. And thank you. Good. Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun. I appreciate it. I'll reach out to you in the future. Thanks, Cassandra. Sounds good. Have a great day. Thank you to native yoga taught cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com. And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time