Dr. Keith Cini - Chinese Medicine Doctor Shares His Healing Journey

Keith Cini shares his journey into the world of healing arts, starting with his introduction to organ massage therapy through one of his kung fu teachers. He discusses his transition from martial arts to yoga and meditation, and how that eventually led him to pursue acupuncture school. Keith also talks about his experiences working at various wellness centers and his focus on concussions and migraines in his practice.

Visit Keith on his website: https://www.agapehealingarts.com/
Follow him on IG:  @agapehealingarts https://www.instagram.com/explore/locations/263970042/agape-healing-arts/

Key Takeaways:

• Keith's introduction to healing arts came through organ massage therapy, which had a profound impact on his life.
• He transitioned from martial arts to yoga and meditation, and eventually pursued acupuncture school.
• Keith's practice focuses on concussions, migraines, and the gut-brain axis.
• He believes that the body knows how to heal itself, and his role as a practitioner is to teach people how to heal themselves.

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Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. Today I have the pleaseure of bringing Keith Cini to the podcast. Keith is an Chinese Medicine doctor and owns Agape Healing Arts in Tequesta, Florida. So happy you are here All right, let's begin Keith. Can you tell me what your introduction to the worl of healing arts was? I got introduced really into the healing arts through Chien aid song, which is basically Organ massage therapy. I was introduced to that from one of my kung fu teachers. When I asked them, I said, Oh, really, Renee Navarro eight year old Filipino gentleman now. And I said, I'd really like to learn some more kung fu from you. And he goes, Okay, come with me this weekend when I was living in New York City. And we went up to Boston for the weekend. And he was teaching a workshop on this abdominal organ massage therapy. And it really kind of like, blew my mind and changed my life. has had you had massage therapy prior to that? No, I, I probably didn't even get a massage until I was in my 30s. Yeah, after moving. I moved to New York City when I was 28. Where did you grow up? I grew up in Michigan. I was born in Detroit. Allow her practice in Ann Arbor, Michigan for a year before I moved down to Florida, in Ann Arbor. Let's hide that practice doing I was doing acupuncture yet. Yeah, I was fresh out of acupuncture school. And my mom got sick. And I ended up staying in Michigan to take my national exams, and ended up opening a practice in Ann Arbor to sustain myself nice. And before my partner at the time, desire to move to Florida. So I came down here in 2008. Yeah. And yeah, so the Chi nits on the Oregon massage therapy just was a very, had a very profound impact on my, on my life. And that started to push me into going more into the healing arts direction. I wasn't a practitioner at the time. You know, I was just a martial artist. I my my passion was, was martial arts. I have a business in New York City. And but after as soon as I got to work, we're going to the dojo or Yeah, some studio to train and evolved, you know, from the martial arts, to yoga to meditation. And and eventually, I put, I took the leap and went to acupuncture school. Nice. How long did that take you? It took me three years. So it was a four year program. I was 38. When I went back to school, I wanted to get done and get out into the workforce. Because of my background in martial arts, I knew I have a lot of knowledge about the philosophy of Chinese medicine and you know, the acupressure points. And so, I kind of knew a lot already going into school where a lot of students were just some of them didn't even have an acupuncture treatment before. Gotcha. So I was going on with, you know, some background and experience. I left New York City after 911 and after the blackout, so there's a long, big story to you know, the the journey. I'd like to hear it. Yeah, so I moved to New York City in 1994 is 28 years old. So my Saturn Return so was starting really new there. See had already become an acupuncture physician in Ann Arbor. No, no, no, this has been 28 this. Gotcha. Yeah. Trying to build a timeline. Yeah, yeah. Well, I you know, so they I, after college, I went to Hillsdale College and played football and was on a national championship football team. Wow. And I was an all American football player in Division two. Wow. Any injuries? The joke is I didn't really get hurt except for my three concussions. Which is gonna lead to another story about training. cranial sacral therapy at the gym up Upledger. in Palm Beach Gardens. Yeah, so I Yeah, grew up as an athlete wrestled football track. And since we're there, I'm gonna mention, I had my mentor, who was a neighbor I met when I was about 14 years old. His name was Gordon Spalding, and he was the first Judo black belt in the state of Michigan. He was an old Marine, he was a survivor of Pearl Harbor and Iwo Jima. Wow. And he was a competitive swimmer. He used to swim against Johnny West Mueller, who was The Hill Tarzan. And when he got out of the Marines, and he would tell me the story about, you know what it was like and in Hawaii and tribes can't remember the camp that he was there, but teaching the guys how to swim and looking at the soldiers putting up the flag and Iwo Jima, you know, which is memorialized in the statue in Washington DC. And so he was a quite a character and he was, he was Henry Ford's bodyguard, Henry Ford. For the second, Lee Iacocca, his personal bodyguards, he was the one you know, these journeys, you end up meeting people and you have no idea he was the one that kind of like opened my mind. I came from a simple family. My dad was a blue collar worker worked at Ford Motor Company, in Detroit and Detroit. Yeah, 42 years. Wow. And my mom was a stay at home mom, I grew up in a small town, Brooklyn, Michigan. Yeah. And and that was the you know, that was the beginning of my my evolution. Yeah. Ya know, then went to Hillsdale College. I got a scholarship there. And I said, I played on that national championship team. My sophomore year, my junior year actually left Hillsdale College and I went to Michigan State. And my roommate was Michigan State's taekwondo coach. His name was Leishan. He went on and he was a judge for the Olympics and Australian taekwondo. And then I was like, wow, you know, like, my, when I came back to Hillsdale the way I played, totally changed. You know, through this, these explosive movements, I was learning through the martial arts. Yeah, but my focus was on athletics. Yeah. And, anyway, graduated from school. Worked at a men's clothing store, moved to LA, back to Michigan, and eventually moved to New York City. To start a business with my my friend there. Yeah. Bill, collusion, wrote a book on Houdini because my roommate in New York City was David Blaine. And I don't know any connections between Houdini and David bland. Out of that loop. Well, David Blaine, you know, he was the magician name. Yeah. Beer. Yes. So that's why for seven days, I was one of the guys who, who lowered him down. Allow and that was my first discovery of fasting was the first time I did a master cleanse. We all did the master cleanse. Yeah, kind of support him. Isn't that the balloon with like, lemon juice and cayenne pepper syrup. Maple. Sarah? Yeah. All right. Yep. 10 days. I'm like, wow, you know, felt great. Yeah. And, yeah, so I was it was a very interesting circle in New York City. So you know, New York City. I was a bouncer. I worked at clubs. I did personal security for Madonna and prints. A whole other like, I didn't know any of this about. This is great. Yeah, it's it's all funny. Funny stories. Yeah. Okay, cool. So and then you are so you're in New York City. Yeah. And you at this point are an acupuncture? No, no. So we haven't gotten a broker selling I mean, some potatoes. Yeah, yeah. And I had been working at the clubs and I was leaving a pretty hedonistic lifestyle, you know, partying all night long hanging out with made guys and Hells Angels and going to after hours clubs, and there was a lot here we talked about, he said, 9293 94 Yeah, well, I moved to New York City in in 1994. So 1994 9596. And there was an incident where I realized, like, you know, what am I going to do? I can't this isn't the lifestyle that I want to lead. Yeah. And I, you know, my, my, my stories of, Oh, I was an all American football player, you know, who am I? Now? You know, what am I doing? Yeah, if I go this direction, which I can go, you know, I'm being invited in to and drawn into, or do I choose a different path for myself? Understood? Yeah. And so, within a few weeks, I just walked away from my job one night, and I said, I'm done with this. I was still lifting weights. I was big, but the city was incredibly stressful. I started losing my hair, breaking out my skin, grinding my teeth at night. It was real challenging, and I knew I had to make a change because I was going to crash and hit a wall. Yeah. And I asked one of my buddies, I said, I want to train martial arts and I want to do something with no punching and no kicking. And he said, Come with me to the New York iKey chi the icones was an aikido school, preeminent Aikido school in the whole country. And I went there with him like the next day and I got hooked. Yeah, I joined Yeah, I started training every day at Aikido. And which, which was it's the Steven Seagal martial art. You know, when you think about it, even though Steven Seagal isn't a very good model for Aikido was a wonderful martial art and it means the way of peace and harmony. And it was the founder was Oh Sensei, and my teacher Yamada Sensei who just passed away within a year. He was the head of the North American and South American Aikido Federation. And so all the big mucky muck Aikido Masters would come to New York City and teach Yes. And then one day, they Yamada Sensei was going back to Japan to Hombu Dojo, and it was the first time he was going to teach in Japan. And I went on that trip to Japan to train Aikido and in its homeland. And it was amazing. I bet it was, yeah. Transformative. It embedded me into that Aikido community. But then I started I wanted to do a martial art with no where I Aikido you need somebody to practice against. Yep. And I wanted to do something where I could practice on my own. And I started looking for Tai Chi. And I was going to Chinatown and going to different schools. And I found a Tai Chi teacher that I liked, and I released and let go of Aikido and starting doing tai chi. Yeah, which is where I met Renee Navarro. And Rene was a renaissance man. He was a Filipino, who had been, I don't know, like excommunicated from the Philippines because he spoke against Marcos. And he was an attorney, and a poet and a father and an acupuncturist. Ah, yeah. This is your entry into the world of Chinese medicine. Specifically, epically Yeah. Yeah. And, and he opened my brain, you know, like, wow, you can be all these things, man. He did it later in life, too. You know, he wasn't a spring chicken. He was 20. He was 20 years old and me was a grandfather and a lot of wisdom. You know, one of those wise old? Yes. Masters. Yes, masters. You know, he was one of Montauk Chia senior practice. Oh my gosh, Chiang Mai. Interesting. Yep. And so then he introduced me to Taoist alchemy and Chinese philosophy. And I was as I was training in Tai Chi, I was like, wow, the only way I can let go to the next level is to learn these principles of acupuncture. And so then I started to want to go yes to acupuncture school. Yes. But the pieces weren't in place yet. You know, I was visiting all the acupuncture schools, I started practicing more Qigong. So Tai Chi is a form of Qigong. But Tai Chi is a martial art and qi gong arch basically Chinese health exercises, I call it Taoist inner alchemy, how to transform negative emotions and the positive attributes. We can talk more about that when I started talking about yes, the Chinese medicine. And so I was going to a little Japanese lady in the Lower East Side, you know, and training Qigong with her. At some point along the path, then 911 happened which was, you know, you know, obviously, like an incredible pivot point. Yeah. You know, in my life, history, yeah, yeah. In many other people's lives, and I attribute the Qigong practice, like, Why did I start practicing Qigong before this event happened? And I never really registered that I had PTSD from that event. I was hanging one of my I was hanging out my friend who was a Navy Seal, you know, waiting for his girlfriend to come out of downtown because all the subways were shut down. The planes. The fighter jet planes are flying overhead. It's just we sat down and had a bar and just watch them. Watch the madness unfolds. Waiting for his his, his girlfriend at the time to show up, and I was hanging out with my other friend, angel who grew up on army barracks. He was a Puerto Rican guy, and who grew up in the army and just crying his heart out because he was downtown you know, might be vivid but I guess it's just part of the story is you know, he was watching the people jump out of the buildings Yeah. And he came home and he was one of the toughest guys I know just yeah. Just devastated was so was a very Gosh, that's a whole other there's a whole I hear Yeah. Other story that I appreciate you go in there that I want to I like these details. So it was impact it was that's what said, That was no, I can't keep doing the things that I'm doing. Yes. And I was, even though as making a lot of money and having a lot of fun and still doing the things I love to do through the martial arts. I still wasn't happy now. And I had a tendency to blame that unhappiness on my circle. My business partner ticular Yeah, I said I can't keep blaming him for my unhappiness. I have to take responsibility to find out what makes me happy. And and move on. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so then I started I when I did my yoga teacher training with him with keytool keytool was one of the New York City so this is New York City. He had to Ross a yoga studio. I spoke IRC with the KKT you ll cool I think he still teaches in Colorado. He was the director of the Kripalu Institute ah, that I heard that name before. Okay, and was the guy in Gainesville? In December? Yeah. Who knows a place here in Florida. He has a place here in Florida. You know, he had a falling out with Kripalu nests I actually went and trained with him down the road because I still love his yoga nidra phenomenal yoga nidra teacher and very, you know, that the the spiritual world whether it's yoga or meditation is full of trappings and there's I have a gazillion stories that I know. Yeah. stories too, are around, you know how to traverse that path. And so I started doing yoga and trained with patottie Joyce after 911. The iyengar yoga Institute was in New York City. My first yoga class was at Shiva Nanda, which was the oldest Yoga Studio in New York City and, you know, was started doing yoga started getting involved in in meditation and getting involved with Tibetan Buddhism with the Shambala center. And, you know, I took the MBSR Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction trance program. Yes, yeah. at Barnard College. All right. I gotta tell you just a funny story of how many plays? Yeah, when I call it. The who's the guy that leads that? I know his name is really well known. Jonathan Evans, that thank you. Yeah. Jon Kabat Zinn. Yeah. Yeah, it was a great program. And because I was looking, how do I put like tools in my toolbox to go out in my life to figure out this? What's this next piece? Yes. Gonna be? Yes. And at this point, are you generating any income from your passion with martial law selling onions and potatoes, you're still in the potato game. It was a very good businesses, very lucrative business. And we were selling to the, to, you know, by the truckloads, you know, 40,000 pounds at a time and, but at this point, do you have a little bit of a vision of, you know, like, now you have a business Yeah. You're healing up a Tai Chi and yoga studio. That's what your thought was? Yeah. I wanted to open up a Tai Chi and yoga studio. And so I started arming myself. Yes, I never got any black belts. I never got any certifications. I just liked I wanted to train. I was just interested in training and getting on the mat getting on the floor. I do want to hear your funny story, though. About the MBSR. I took you off the track. No, that's okay. I call the Barnard College. And we're like, do you care if it's all women are all you know, girls in the class? I mean, no, I don't have a problem with that. And I showed up for the first class. And one of the young ladies was upset that there was a man in the class and I'm like, I don't understand why. Yeah, yeah. And then I found Barnard College is an all women's college. Oh. So that's that was that is pretty classes. Yeah. It was you in hand? Yeah. Like, they asked her to leave because she was uncomfortable and stay. All right. And yeah, so yeah, that was that and, and so yeah, I was, you know, I started exploring. I wanted to get a Tai Chi certification. shins I got my cheap guns certifications. I got my meditation certifications. This was this was this was within BSR. The certification application. Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, I did a lot of Taoist meditation and I was going to Shambala all the time and yet it was just, I was just immersed in that. Yes world now, no New York City just has has all the worst things that you can imagine. Right? Because that was kind of the shadow light. You know, I said, I went to New York City to become intimate friends with my shadow. Yeah. Now it's not scary anymore. Yeah. And it has all the, you know, I got to train with the Dalai Lama for seven days and tinea Han. And wow. You know, I'd go to the Omega Institute in Rhinebeck, New York, and there was always, you know, wonderful programs there. Yes. Yeah. We used to have Srivatsa Ramaswami. Come to our house because his son lived in Jersey City. So after, just before 911, I bought a condo in Jersey City. And Srivatsa Ramaswami was one of the Krishna. Krishna Macharia has senior students after batavi. Joyce Yes. yangarra. Yes. And his son hit dessicant char. So I trained with all these guys, those Yeah. Young and that really good teachers. Yeah, it was it was a phenomenal time. Sounds amazing. Yeah. It was amazing. So then, yeah, so I collected all these tools. That was from 2001 to 2003. Those two years I was like, pushing, gathered it all in. I had a falling out with my business partner. I walked away from that business. And I opened up the Heaven and Earth center on Sixth Avenue. And wow, you opened up a location in New York City on Sixth Avenue, down near Soho. Isn't that kind of is that near Broome Street, or actually, it was right across the street from the New York City Public Library. All right. And you know, that area down the street? Got it? Yeah. Wow. So you opened up? What size space? Did you open? Well, it was about the space. I can probably remember the square footage being about 1200 square feet. Yeah. And portable at that time, I can't imagine was in comparison and out in comparison to now but at that time, still still seeming like well, this is a big plunge. I'm thinking yeah, it was a big plunge. I guess I had sock some money away. And unfortunately, the school sucked up very quickly. Yeah, I didn't really have a marketing plan. Yes, it was just this is what I wanted to do. And I'm gonna do it. I was too ignorant to even know any better what a great story because how many of us are in that situation at some point or another when we've watched try to follow our passion or dream? And then the reality of the business side? Yeah, it's just another I actually, I put a second mortgage on my house, which is they tell you not to do that. That's not a good business plan. I have a good business plan that I did. And it came to, it came to a point where like, you know, this isn't gonna work. It was a weird concept. Because I was doing tai chi and yoga and meditation. They would have a ray I was dude, they would do raves and my yoga studio at night that tried to come in. But it connected me with Alex Gray, him and his wife and his daughter came in and we used to have I used to have art exhibits in the yoga studio. That's cool. And his work is amazing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, before he has his car, we were going to his house and Brooklyn, you know, to do full moon ceremonies with Himalayan voices were which was a couple of guys that came in to New York, and they had the gongs and they taught me all about sound healing. Because they were doing the they were doing the full moon ceremonies at Alex Gray's and then they'd come to my place and nice, like a place that they could do their sound healing and their practices. And they had actually watched the studio for me when I was gone. And it was a great relationship. I met my Tibetan teacher there. Another story, but they were looking for a place to hold their Sangha in order. Yeah, and I said, Yeah, please. Yeah, come on in and yes, and so I met my my teacher, Tibetan teacher there. And and then I realized, you know, through that challenge is like I did not want to teach Tai Chi to make a living. I did not want to teach Tai Chi and, and yoga have tried to make a living. Not easy, right? And it's challenging. Yeah, it's challenging. It's challenging. Yeah. And so, so then I made the decision to leave. It was finally time to leave. After 10 years, we went through the blackout, which was another, you know, kind of crazy story. And I always knew I wasn't going to stay in New York City. But I didn't. I said, Well, when something happens here, I'll leave and then 911 happened. And I didn't leave. I stayed. Because there was things to do. Yeah, I did the things that I needed to do. And I said, You know what? I want to go to acupuncture school. Nice. I knew I couldn't pull it off in New York City, because there's just too many distractions, even though there was some great schools there. And my partner at the time was going to grad school in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And Santa Fe, somewhere I always wanted to live. I drove through New Mexico one time on my way from Detroit to LA. And it was beautiful. The mountains look like it was so beautiful rushes I'm like, Oh, this is like the paint. This is like Yeah, yeah. And so I went to Santa Fe, I packed up my soul, my condo, and that's why we went to acupuncture. So I moved to Santa Wang. I went to acupuncture school in Santa Fe. That's kind of like, that's like one of the dreams like I think if I was gonna go to acupuncture school, that would almost be one of my dream locations to go just because you associate Santa Fe with a lot of the arts that you're speaking of. So I just for healers, I would imagine that the an incredible place to hang out and learn from a man who was hot springs and I was friends with Robert mirrorball, who's a very well known Dallas, Taos Native flute artist. And we'd go to Hot Springs, and I made some amazing local friends. And I got introduced to the Native American church and had my first peyote ceremony outliar. Wow. And you just met phenomenal teachers and mentors. And it was it was a great experience. Man, that sounds amazing. So three years, there was two years in Santa Fe two years grad, not yet graduated then from acupuncture school. So what had happened is my partner wanted to go to the RU Vedic Institute to study with Dr. pissant, lat and Albuquerque. I've heard of him. He's one of the premier he is the premier person in America to go study Vedic. If you go to India, if you go to Kerala, and you tell them I want to study or you VEDA they'll say why don't you go study with doctors to send you back to? Yeah. And so then I moved to Albuquerque to do my last year. Isn't there also a really amazing Hanuman temple there the Hanuman temples in Taos and his town house? Yeah, that's right. I heard about that to all right. Yeah. You have so many spiritual centers. And, you know, you know, it's kind of very new age. It's the second largest artists to market in the country. They have, like native, the people fly from all over the world there to purchase art from the Native Americans and the artists there. Yes. Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful, nice, magical place. Nice. Mountains, rivers. How did you? How did you do two years there? And you said you went to so I went, it was SWAC. Southwest acupuncture college. So they have campuses in Santa Fe, Albuquerque and Boulder, Colorado. Got it. So it was an easy move. And then while I was going to acupuncture school, I used to get to go study with Dr. Weekends. Yeah, yeah. And I taught Tai Chi at the RU Vedic Institute. And that was another you know, I got to learn about ru VEDA. And another wonderful opportunity and just you know, anybody who has an opportunity to to study with Dr. facade, lad, I'm trying to convince a couple people now go study with facade moved to Asheville, North Carolina. I didn't know that. But he you know, it's just a it's just you're immersed in the, in the culture and the philosophy and the medicine is just it was another wonderful Wow, opportunity. Very cool. Yeah. So now I'm a practitioner. I graduated from school in 2007. So I went to Michigan opened up my practice in Ann Arbor. You know, my mom felt ill she had a brain aneurysm on Thanksgiving Day, and, and survived. 80 years old. She was years old. Wow. And so I went home to help take care of her. And she miraculously recovered. Nice and I had an opportunity to, and it was an opportunity. My girlfriend said, if you want to be with me, you're gonna have to move to Florida, because I can't deal with the cold weather. And I felt like I felt complete with what I needed to do in Michigan, my parents, and I came to Florida, with no money, no car, no job and no place to live. We didn't know where we were going to live. Yes, yes, in Florida. And we ended up here in Jupiter because a friend, Jyoti, who went to the RU Vedic Institute was working for Tiger Woods on privacy. So we stayed with her while we canvass the state looking for a place to live and we'd go to Sarasota and we go to Naples, and we're in South Beach and Fort Lauderdale. And we were right about to sign a deal on a house in Fort Lauderdale. And it fell through and I've said I'm sick of looking for a place I love Jupiter. Can we just stay in Jupiter? Yeah. And the next day, I found an apartment in Jupiter on the water nice before the Jupiter that's today, you know was Yeah. 2000? Yes. Yeah. And I've been here ever since. And I just, I love it. I couldn't think that I would live anywhere else. I hear your key and it's become a hotbed of healing. As much so as New York City or Santa Fe, you know, there's so many amazing healers here. When I got here, I started working at the poverties Health Institute. Yes, and I have a chance now to learn about raw living foods and wheatgrass juice therapy and, and hang out with Victorious convinced guess who was the grandfather of this raw food movement? Yes. And I was teaching Chi Gong and meditation, they're practicing acupuncture. And lo and behold, what a perfect opportunity to practice this Oregon massage therapy. I'm like, Wow, this just fits right into this work. Yes, you know, with the diet and the colonics. And, and, and I went back and I started to formally study this chi neat song that originally sent me on the path I don't even know how many years ago he he invited me up to Boston that to to share that skill with me. And so then I was working at Hippocrates. I was still doing my chi neat sound training. Every summer I'd go to way to Asheville, and yes, train with different teachers. And I would practice I had a office at different places in the area. So because that's in West Palm Beach, and we're here in Jupiter spent seven years there, and which my time was over, and then I started working. I had been taking classes now this which leads me into the cranial sacral therapy. So that's my, the bulk of my work as the acupuncture, organ massage therapy and cranial sacral therapy. And of course, I was attracted to the cranial sacral therapy because I suffered. Or I'd been diagnosed with at least three concussions and yes, I know I have post concussion syndrome issues. Yeah. And I'm like, wow, I had no idea. Upledger institutes literally 10 minutes from my house classic. Dr. John Upledger was an osteopath at Michigan State, which was where I used to go to football camp in the summertime when I lived in Michigan. And he had moved here in 1984, which is when I graduated from high school, and then I had a chance to train. Unnecessarily train with him. I met with him as he was older along in years by that time, but you know, just embrace the whole cranial sacral therapy program. So one of my focuses is on concussions and migraines and mild TBI guys. Yes. And so that's the, the, you know, I have cranial sacral therapy and an Oregon massage therapy and the gut brain access has always been like a passion and so it just felt right. You know, hand in hand. Yeah. You know, with acupuncture and Chinese medicine as as my base. Yes. And that's incredible. That's an that's a very wide array of practical experience that you just that you just ran us through. Yeah, I don't know how you fit it all in. It's real leave this life as a dream. Yeah. You know, I came to Jupiter with, you know, living in Detroit and LA and New York City and going to school in Santa Fe, and coming here with a partner who went back to New York City and then meeting my wife, who was an acupuncturist and midwife and had four kids. And we're celebrating our 10 year anniversary. Next month. Congratulations, December, and we're celebrating 10 years of agape healing. Healing Arts. Yes, this month, congratulations. Thank you so much, because I know you work with your wife too. Yes. Yeah, I know, when people when we first started doing that people settle either make or break us. You know, they said, you know, a lot of people are like, you know, I could not work with my wife or my husband, because I'd kill them or they'd kill me. Yeah, and, but right away, we clicked on it, where it worked. And we knew like, it wasn't, it wasn't a trial, you know, of course, everyone has challenges. But yeah, I couldn't imagine doing what I do without doing it with Tamra, my wife, I just, I just wouldn't want to do what I do if I didn't have her as my partner. So it's a real blessing and an amazing experience. So I'm so happy to when I meet other couples that are doing it as well and able to manage the marriage relationship and the business relationship, and they actually works is it's, what would you do you think it takes a lot of workers and a natural process for you? Like, I mean, a little bit of both, right? Well, no marriage or no, say I have the highest respect, you know, for you, and I bow down at your feet, because, you know, you make it work, you know, and we're in a field like, where, like, you know, every, with everything going on in the world? And who, oh, I just wish for peace. But how can there be peace outside of ourselves? If there's not peace within? Yeah, how can there be peace between, you know, two opposing ideologies, if there can't be peace in a marriage. And ultimately, you know, that's all all we're striving for is peace at the end of our lives, you know, that's all you want is peace. You don't want chaos and drama and, and turbulence. And I did not pick an easy partner. But and they break you and make you, you know, it's like you have to get broken. And then you put yourself back together. And that's how a snake sheds its skin. It it's because it's growing. And so we're growing in those challenging times. Right, you said there's, there's always going to be challenges of how do you engage them and, and dance with them and overcome them? Because it's easy to be a monk in the mountains? I could go. She's like, you've been a monk. I know. I've been a monk. I know, I've been a monk. Yeah, in my past life. And I've done that. And now it's time for something different. My buddy laughter us like you've done all that. Do this, you know, and I have who's that famous meditation author that wrote the book after the after the ecstasy, the laundry? Have you read that one? I haven't read that one, I have to come up with the author name and give him credit for mentioning his book. But I love that title. Because like you can have an ecstasy experience in a setting like I'm just so low and hanging out. And but then when you come down back to the raising children holding down the fort for business, being committed in a relationship, yeah, there's the laundry to do. Well, the other book, I chop wood and carry water. All right, you know, yes. You get up and you have a rough day, and you get up and you get to it's a brand new day. Yeah. Do you want to start it? Yeah. And I, I couldn't have dreamed of my life being this good. And I met a partner that makes me want to be better. I trigger her, you know, she triggers me, you know, there's a whole, you know, philosophy of relationship that, you know, we attract that partner in our lives, that's either going to reinforce those triggers that were installed in us, as young children or heal those triggers because you're going to be triggered. And so you're going to just reinforce those bad habits and unconscious MOSAID you know, patterns. Are you going to respond instead of react, you know, how do you respond in a healthy way? And my kids taught me a lot about that. Yes, because I, you know, admittedly I had a lot of anger issues. I grew up Fighting I used to know wrestling and football I. It makes sense. Yeah, you almost would need to have a little aggression to be good at wrestling and football, right? Like, if you're. So what happened was the martial arts gave a form to my energy instead of being chaotic, and fighting and drinking and all the bad habits, right? It's like, oh, it took that energy and put a form to it. So wasn't just, yeah, yeah, out there. Yeah. And so I have a lot of compassion for my kids, because they remind me of who I was at that age. Now, when my son triggers me, I laugh I go, you gotta You remind me of me. You know, and then when I was, gosh, when they were little, like, my anger would come up. I'm like, What am I gonna yell at a little kid? I'm like, That's ridiculous. You know, you want to cuddle them and hold them? And yeah, tell them they're safe. And okay. Yeah, maybe I didn't have that growing up. Yeah. So it gives me this kind of heal you don't you think a little like when you then open up and give them a hug that it does kind of heal? Maybe that that didn't get one when you were a kid? Well, you know, one of the philosophies, you know, from like, whole oponopono, which is the Hawaiian prayer, which is I love you, please forgive me, I'm sorry, thank you, which is a mantra for me in my practice, that one of the they say take self responsibility, you know, for your actions. And every anything that shows up in your life is a mirror of you. You know, so if I look at you, you know, closely into your eyes, all I see is a reflection of me, you know, so yeah, you know, you giving your your children a hug is giving yourself a hug. Yeah. At that age. Yeah. Or an ear, you know, to listen to, because that, like, you know, I realized like kids all they want, they want love, and they want to be heard. Yeah. And so, you know, that's challenging in modern lifestyle for for people to stop and listen to your kids listen to their frustrations, listen to their problems. You know, my daughter comes to me, I don't have answers, but I listen, you know, and then she feels heard. And then she doesn't have to carry it around. Yeah. On her back create plant. So yeah, I mean, related. Like I said, it's easy to be a monk in the mountains. Yeah. But then, where's that reflection word as triggers. And that's where that's where you really get the opportunity to to grow. And if you really want to put yourself in the fire, yeah, you know, work with your wife. A little more. Phoenix Rising every Friday. Man, I hear you, Keith. That's awesome. Yeah, it's great. I love Yeah, I always I'm always looking at couples too. I know. We have Michael Che and guest shares. Power Couple. Yes. And those are my models now like, yeah, and I have to say this because now we're in the Aquarian Age. Okay, right. And so we're coming out of the Age of Pisces for the last last 2600 years, which is the sine of the fish. And Aquarius is the two lightning bolts. It's the black and white lightning bolt. And so that's yin and yang, in perfect harmony. So it's the divine masculine and the sacred feminine now, there's not a patriarchy or matriarchy, there's not one stamping over the other. How do we move through the world and healthy relationship? Yeah, because that's the only thing that's going to heal the planet. You know, whether it's black and white, or gay or straight or Jewish, Muslim, you know, we got to find harmony and balance, which is, again, brings me back to Chinese medicine. And the whole philosophy is based off of yin and yang, not too much, not too little, to find a healthy place between, you know, you don't gotta run a marathon, but you can't lie on the couch all day, you know, how do you find that? That median? Yes. And so whether it's, you know, the, the myself, you know, the Anima and animus and myself now in the masculine and feminine and relationship, you know, how do you interact with your students and our community? And then, you know, out, you know, to the whole, it's like, throwing a rock into a pond and those ripples go out to the rest of the world. And then but at all, you know, I'll start Yeah, starts with me. Don't loose. There's somebody else who said, yeah, it has to start with you. Great. I feel great. cuz I know you guys embody that, you know, when you come to native Yoga, you feel that. Thank you Kia. And I appreciate that honor your path of you know what the path that you and Tamra has been on is is amazing partners, your business owners, your parents, I appreciate hearing that. Because when you go through challenges sometimes forget to look at it from the angle of of that, you know. So thank you so much for, for saying that. I really appreciate that. If I had to then because I have we, we got a very good I wanted to hear your story because we've had we've had a chance to take cranial sacral therapy training or biodynamic cranial sacral therapy training with Michael Che, when we're when he's here, we've had a chance to see each other in different environments. But I've never had a chance to really speak with you this long and hear your story. Yeah. So I'm glad that we took the time to lay that down. And then in the essence of trying to stay somewhat on time with our conversation today. And the enormous subject of what I want to dive into, which is I want to bring it help me understand it's helped me understand like when I hear liver meridian lung meridian gallbladder meridian and how do I start to make sense of this, in my practical life in my daily life? Well, I'm going to this is my Michael my four years of school into a four minute okay program, which is, so there's about 365 acupuncture points on the body, like the 365 days of the year. Those points lie on meridians or energetic pathways, and which there are 12 Major meridians, like the 12 months of the year. And you name some of them. Those meridians connect to our organs, which you name some, but we concentrate on five major organs, your liver, your heart, your spleen, your lungs, and kidneys. And they say to so that's the corresponds with the five seasons or the five elements. And they all have responsibilities that we can talk about. And send a core of that is there's a yin and yang aspect to those organs. So there's not too much not too little, how do we bring those organs back into balance. And one aspect of being young is Chi are vital life force, energy and blood which is the matter the material. And so the unifying force is Chi Chi is like the glue chi is the vital lifeforce energy that runs through us and all living things. It runs through these organs. So the the liver is a place that we tend to hold stress. So that can get bound up and stagnant or stuck or blocked. And that inhibits the Chi from flowing into your spleen. So now you got all the swelling of energy in the liver, and you have a depletion in the spleen, and it's just like a dam and a river to water wells up on one side and dries up on the other side. And the acupuncture needle goes in there and pushes a log odd way and allows that chi and blood to flow into that other area of homeostasis in the body. Got it. So that's 365 points 12, meridians, five, Oregon's balancing yin and yang to help us move the Chi got it. So that's Chinee That's what I told my clients on the table and asked me yeah, what's going on? What are we doing? How, yeah, explain this to me, then the body knows how to heal itself. Its natural state is homeostasis, you're healthy. But then, you know, we're our worst enemy. I said, the toxic cocktail, the stress and diet. We all have stress, you know, just eating and breathing. Like try holding your breath. Yes, gets very quickly, right. Yes. So we have pranayama you know, to help move the chi and and other you know, stress management tools, you know how to deal with that and give you tools to deal with that. And then diet? Yeah, you know, how do you are you eating processed foods, fast foods? Are you eating organic foods, you know, healthy foods? Yes. So those those that's kind of, you know, what? I'm looking at? Yeah, I see my clients we were talking about, we'll take a health history. And then we want to take what are your health goals and how do we achieve those? Yeah, yeah, no, so you if you're dealing with acute disease, or chronic disease, most of the stuff we see now is chronic. Even though I have a background working with F athletes and martial artists because I came up as an athlete and martial artists. Yes. But I worked with a lot of sick people, Apocrypha T's even in school, you know, I was working with very I was working at the AIDS clinic and different situations, but most of the stuff we see now is chronic. And how do you change you notice? Because 100 years ago, when we died much earlier because of virus, and trauma? Oh, you got the black Spanish Fly disease, or I don't know what that was right. You know, or yeah, you fell off a ladder? And yeah, you know, but now we got emergency rooms. Yeah. And we got penicillin. So like, okay, yeah, pretty good. Yeah. And so now, it's mostly, you know, chronic chronic disease, so that, you know, you could you could do something at 20, or 30, awesome, 40 and 50. And I'm coming up on 60 Pretty soon and then doesn't accumulate a lifetime of bad habits. And so now your body can't get rid of the toxicity and the waste products that you've accumulated over time. And unless you've been taking care of yourself doing yoga, and watching what you eat, and practicing meditation, or having a prayer practice, compliant, yeah, compliant, so you know, Doctor, the root word of doctors really teacher, you know, so how many doctors in the medical community are teaching you how to maintain your health. And so that's really, my role is to teach people how to heal themselves. Yes, as I said, I don't have to tell the needles what to do when we you know, insert them, the body knows what to do to heal itself, just get out of your own way and take a look you need, you know, you don't need to cold turkey, you know, stop drinking alcohol or dairy or carbs. But those are all things that contribute to our health and wellness. Yes. And if you want to be healthy, and be active and have quality of life, then those are the things you know that we have to we have to take care of ourselves. It's not like, I can go to my mechanic and get a new oil change and airfilter give me a new tire. You know, we were we got this body. This is what we got. Yeah, compliant. Yeah. And I've been blessed. You know, I've gone through my own health challenges, but I've been, health has always been an issue for me, I want, you know, nobody I've seen I saw my buddies blown out their knees and football, I've seen my friends die of heart disease, you know, younger than me or my age. And I'm like, now, you know, there has to be Yeah. And that was that point. I remember, like, because I was like, I'm not doing that I'm not drinking beer every night. And you know, I want something healthy and sustainable. I hear you one of the things that seems like a major issue these days. I just drove my flew up to Michigan, I drove somebody down from Michigan to Florida. And then I think that was about 1400 miles. And then I drove from here up to Tennessee, and then I drove back down. So I think in total, like 3000 miles in the last two weeks, and I saw a lot of billboards in the middle of the country. And I love America, like I'm so proud. I love I love this country. I'm very proud to live here. And I met so many great people. I feel like there's a lot of harmony on the road. I did see a lot of billboards that said one pill can kill. And it really gave me that feeling of how much the fentanyl issue is right now. And then when I was get when I was in near Nashville, I overheard them say that right now the city Baltimore has the most fentanyl deaths per day. The second most is Nashville. And I just thought that was so interesting when I was driving through there because I saw all these billboards saying one pill can kill and you know, you really have to pay attention here with purchasing illegal street drugs and obviously getting hooked on oxy and then thinking, well now I can't have oh, how am I going to get it and then you go for the street and you don't know you're gonna have fentanyl and boom, that just seems like a big one. Now I know there's a million different things we could look at that, that are in relation to how we could pass away what could take us out but I think like what you were saying in terms of like, you know, trying to cultivate our health. I think it's it's amazing what's going on these days. I keep thinking like try to minimize the amount of different substances that come in, like, just take it down a notch like minimize, I'm not saying I'm going for those substances, but just even on the level of have a look at my coffee intake or I look at my whatever will race and take or whatever. You know, what were the founders of Jeevan Mukti yoga, David. Yeah. David life and Sharon Ghana, right? Yeah, right. So they were heroin addicts before they became yoga addicts. So these fentanyl is just the symptom of the root. Right? And whether it's fentanyl, alcohol, food sacks. They're they're, they're things outside of us. That were our coping mechanisms for the emotional pain, you know, turmoil, trauma. Yeah. So these are band aids. You know, the fentanyl goes back to the probably the biggest issue facing this country is mental illness, mental disease, which is emotional. You know, if you feel anxious, there's a pill, if you feel depressed, there's a pill, there's a pill for everything. It's easy to go to the pharmacist and get a pill than it is to change your diet and start exercising. And so that's the and so this is going to a segue for my the geniet song which is the abdominal organ massage therapy. So when those five organs, there's different emotions associated with those organs. So the liver is anger. Right? So you get an angry drunk. Yes, the heart is a love, passion, joy, or the lack of you know, self, lack of self love, lack of self worth. The spleen is worry overthinking anxiety, eating disorders, the lungs is grief. Smoking, the kidneys is fear, shock, PTSD, sex issues, you know, pornography. So now these are the band aids for these emotional issues. It's interesting, right? Yeah, you know, and your sister Your sister has a colon hydrotherapy? Yes, right. And also a pockety said all disease starts in the colon. And in Chinese medicine, the sole responsibility of the cult of the large intestine or colon is letting go. And it's whether it's letting go of undigested foods, or undigested emotions, right? You know, some So, we're so busy. I don't have time to grieve. My mom died. I gotta get to work. I gotta raise kids. Yeah, you know. And you, you know, there's as many people there are stories. And so in my role as teacher doctor is education. And so yeah, you know, having a drink having a glass of wine, having a beer with your buddies. That's all great. But again, it's not too much. You know? And then what are the other resources that you have? Yoga? paddleboarding? Yeah. meditation prayer. So meditation is actually the highest form of medicine in the in the pillars of Chinese medicine. Interesting. Yeah. Right. You know, acupuncture is actually the lowest form because it's invasive. Isn't that interesting? Then in that you see in the yoga world that the asanas were all this emphasis is on but then meditation is also the pinnacle in the yoga world, at least it depends on who you talk to, isn't it? It seems interesting that then in the Chinese medicine world, everybody's like, I just want to go for an acupuncture session. But if you're disabled, let's just go ahead and meditate the line even do something better that they'd be like, No, I'd rather take the lesser, effective approach. I'm not saying that the asana or the acupuncture is lesser, but it does seem like the entry point. It's an entry for us to then start to move up to this this finer element. Well, I worked with the chakras, too. So I work with the five elements and the five organs and Chinese medicine you can affect those a lot through diet. And but with the chakras, which are aligned with the endocrine system. Yeah, right. Yeah. You know, so yeah. It was funny the way I explained my sex edge discussion with my kids, I spoke about the chakras. You know, I said the sort of lower chakra the Root Chakra is safety and security. Do you have a home? Are you homeless? Do you feel safe in your home? You know, the second chakra you know called I call it the like the umbilical chakra the belly button chakra. That's your sex and food. So how do you nourish yourself? Are you eating healthy organic food? Are you doing process food? Yeah. Are you watching pornography? Are you in a sacred relationship? You know, with your beloved? The solar plexus is you know the sun, how you shine your light out into your world? How do you show up? What's your profession? Or do you wake up in the morning and hate going to work? Or you wake up and you're like, you're passionate. I love what you do. I know the heart is the Bridge. And between the three lower and the three upper, you know, loving yourself and having self worth. And then the throat is, you know, do you bless people with your words? Or do you curse people with your words, Prince taught me about cursing. He was the one that taught me about the energetic frequency. I love prance Hurst words, he doesn't curse. Uh huh. That was, you know, and so, I, you know, that's a one for my kids, because they're arguing with each other all the times and yeah. And then, you know, the pineal gland is your entire sense of intuition and intention, or positive thinking or negative thinking. And then a crown chakra, you know, or can your connection to God? Yes. So it's a it's Jacob's Ladder. You have to you can't skip one you got to start. Right on the ground. Yeah. Yeah. Your Cow Pose, you know, your, your Down Dog, you're up dog. Yes. And then you, you know, as you progress, you know, you, you ascend, you know, that ascension process from material. So spiritual. I mean, yoga, right is the just to prepare the body to sit and meditate in a comfortable position. It's not the, your leg behind your head, your, your, your leg behind your head and contort yourself. It's to be able to find the position and learn how to be confident, use your breath and be comfortable in it. So create plant, you know, have a challenge. How do I have amazing conversations with individuals? And try to keep it within a timeframe of one hour? Oh, how long have we been going? We're here to our four minute mark, and so on itself too much? No, no, you didn't actually, I feel like podcasts or interviews, or it's almost like creating a painting. And hearing your story is it's how I learned and how I relate my own experience of my development and all the different things that you know, where I was sought learning and sought training. So I love hearing your story, Keith. So I don't think you talked about yourself too much. To be honest, I think there's a lot to be learned from hearing that process of a having a dream and a vision. And like following through, even though like there's some roadblocks opening a business in New York, putting some getting in a tough spot and then not giving up coming to Florida or going to Michigan and helping your parents a very noble deed. Amazing. Last year, my life amazing, right? Yeah, spend some time with them. And then here 10 year celebrating 10 year anniversary at your business, I would like to invite you to come back. So I could continue to ask you more questions. And so we'll just make it a one part and a two part awesome. And we'll go a little further into some of the philosophy behind your work and how you work in your in your studio and your business. I always usually like to ask like, parting final words. You've already given us plenty to digest and chew on think about relate to, well, like yoga, you have Asana, you have pranayama. And you have meditation. And so my philosophy is healthy body, peaceful mind, joyful heart. That's our that's our motto agape healing arts. And I did mention it before, which is one of my greatest tools, I try to share with all my, as many clients as I can and friends and people who resonate with the whole oponopono which is that Hawaiian prayer, it. It's non denominational, and it's so powerful words of love and gratitude and forgiveness. Forgiveness is very important in the healing process. And I encourage everybody, matter of fact, if if you're watching this, you know, look in the mirror, look at yourself in the mirror, and say I love you. Please forgive me. I'm sorry. Thank you, and repeat it enough so that you feel it in your heart. And if you have issues with anybody if you have challenges with your relationship, I make my kids say this to each other when it gets heated. It is really the most healing. Those were what was that four? It was four sentences, wasn't it? Yeah, I love you. Please forgive me. I'm sorry, thank you. And those were the words dr. Emoto, would use when working with the water. That was the prayer that that he really brought out to the public. And I saved under my breath all the time, if I get upset at somebody tailgating me on the highway, or if my wife triggers me, or if my kids make me upset, or if my clients are, are having challenges in their own life, I'm like, take this home, say it to your partner, say it to whoever you need to say it to, and you'll say it like a rosary, you know, over and over again. And it starts to change and shifts and go from one person to the other person. But you know, I'm, I'm a huge believer in the power of prayer. My wife is one of the strongest prayer warriors. I know, we recite a lot of different prayers, but that's the that's the staple. I put that on my grave. I love it. It's a real good one. And it's one I love to share and encourage people to practice on your own. I love you. Please forgive me. I'm sorry. Thank you. Native yoga podcast is produced by myself. 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