Pranidhi Varshney - Cultivating Community and Challenging Hierarchies in Yoga Practice

Pranidhi Varshney, owner of Yoga Shala West, discusses her journey in the world of yoga and the importance of cultivating community. She shares her experience of running a yoga studio during the pandemic and the challenges she faced. Pranidhi also emphasizes the need for inclusivity in the Ashtanga yoga community and the importance of leading with love in all aspects of life.

Key Takeaways:

• Cultivating community is a vital aspect of running a yoga studio.
• The financial aspect of running a studio can be challenging, but having an open fee structure can make the space more inclusive.
• It is important to let go of attachment to specific postures or benchmarks and focus on the internal experience of the practice.
• Leading with love and embracing diversity can create a more inclusive and supportive yoga community.

Visit Pranidhi on her website: http://yogashalawest.com/
Follow her on FB: https://www.facebook.com/yogashalawest/
Subscribe to her on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/PranidhiV
Follow on IG: https://www.instagram.com/yogashalawest/

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Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast today I have a special guest on Pranidhi Varshney. And you can find her on her website, which is www.yogashalawest.com. She's located in Los Angeles, California, and follow her on Instagram at @yogashalawest. Also check her out on YouTube. And this one is off of her name at @pranidhiv.. So you'll be able to find or no problem obviously go to her website. And the links are all there. And you can find the links to all of that in the description below. You'll also see some other links ways that you can support the show and also all of our other digital offerings that we have available for you. I really enjoy this opportunity. Speaking with Pranidhi, she has such a nice gentle nature and a lot of insight in what it takes to run a yoga studio to develop community and to teach and practice yoga in a way that she encourages support. And real being real, you know, just keeping it real, keeping it simple, keeping it real. So thank you so much Pranidhi and I can't wait for you all to hear this conversation. Send me a message to let me know what you think. And send her one as well if you enjoy. And let's go ahead and get started. I'm so happy to have this opportunity to speak with Pranidhi Varshney. And Pranidhi, How are you doing today? I'm doing really well. Thanks for having me today. Yeah, I'm grateful the opportunity? Absolutely. I found your incredible content on YouTube. And your YouTube channel is at PranidhiV, which I highly recommend everyone check it out. And I was just really inspired by your work. And I'm just excited to have this chance to speak with you. So thank you very much. Can you give like a short? Like if I had if I asked you what is your job title? How would you answer that? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is like a wiper of noses. And but because I'm a mother of two. Good answer young, young children, they're two and five. And that's what I spend most of my time doing. But at the yoga Shala. So it's a good question. And we know where to get an answer that's more specific than just I teach yoga. You know, I guess my primary job description at the Shala would be a cultivator of community. Good answer. Yeah, that's what I really see myself. I see that as sort of my life's mission as as a mother and as a yoga teacher. And it's become even more clear to me after the pandemic, which was a time in which we really, you know, lived in isolation for quite some time. Depending on where we were living, what part of the country we were living in, you know, that period lasted different durations for people, but for me, here in California, our Salah was close for 14 months. And like playgrounds were close, you know, it was it was pretty intense time. So since coming back, especially, I felt pretty called to just focus my energies on gathering together with people in person. And actually, you know, even before the pandemic, we did a lot of that at our Shala things have changed, of course, and we can talk about that as the conversation moves forward. But yeah, I would say uh, I like to put a lot of energy into cultivating communities. That's cool, great, great answer in relation to your yoga teaching career. You are in a stronger yoga teacher. Am I correct? That's correct. And can you give me a little bit of your background and relation to was your first yoga class and Tangu yoga class, or did you practice yoga and then find Ashtanga and then go seriously down the Ashtanga track? How did that evolve? Yeah, so. So I started practicing Yoga very casually in high school, just sort of with DVDs and things like that. And then I actually in college, one of the first yoga classes that I took in an actual studio was in, actually was at a gym. And it was actually the primary series, but it was just called power yoga with little modifications here and there from the primary series, but basically primary. And I didn't know that at the time, but I really fell in love with the practice was a lead class. And once I figured out okay, this is Ashtanga Yoga then I found and I stumbled with studio and city, I was going to college just outside of Chicago, and found studio in the city and it started taking my classes there. And but it wasn't really until I'm moved to California that I started practicing my source style. That was in 2010 2009, or 2010. And around that time, I took a yoga teacher training. So my Ashtanga practice was growing around the same time that I was training, very, on a very basic level, to be able to share the practice. And then over the years, I became more serious and devoted to the practice. And Monday, Joyce is my main teacher. So I went and studied with him all over the world. And his home base is actually in Encinitas, which is not too far from me. So it would pop in there from time to time as well. And his in his approach has really influenced me. So yeah, he's my sort of guiding light in terms of how I share the practice. And around 2015 is when I open the shower. So we are going on eight years now. Congratulations. Thank you. I saw I saw a post on Instagram that you were advertising are showing that we made it eight years. Yeah, it's a big deal. Right? Especially Yeah, you said surviving the pandemic and surviving the pandemic in LA, like you said, 14 months closed is a long time. So I have have questions for you regarding that. My wife and I were in Juno Beach, Florida, a different type of approach was taken, we were mandated closed for nine weeks total. So like, not very long. But that doesn't mean it didn't mean it was easy. When we, you know, I we pay rent. So I bet my landlord didn't like making the concessions. And it was, we have to do this, but it was not easy. Because it doesn't mean everybody wanted to come in and all that sort of stuff, too. But um, I guess I'm curious, how did you survive that 14 months financially? Did your landlord require you to pay rent? And then I'm also super curious about the way that your studio sound structure in the relationship to isol terminology that it's like a community supported astanga studio. So I have a ton of questions for you. But maybe let's start with that. Let's start with that. What is the how does your How does your pay structure work and torn in terms of like the community idea? Sure. Yeah. So I think it's actually really great, you bring this up, because I think as yoga teachers, there's a tendency to not be super transparent about the financial aspect of things. And I think it's time to break that open. So I'm happy to talk about it financially getting through COVID. It was interesting, we actually had our five year anniversary of the Shala, during COVID. So that was in 2020. And, like you said, you know, at the beginning, we thought we'd be close for a couple of weeks and turn into a couple of months. And our lease, that was in March, starting in March of 2020. And couple months turned into more months. And by August, when our five year we had a five year lease, a five year lease was up. And I actually in the preparation, the process of figuring out what we were going to do whether we were going to keep our lease because at that time, it was really the great unknown, we had no idea like what was going on when we were going to be allowed to open. You know, I actually because we have this community orientation, actually called together several of my students who were kind of our core, our core crew, you know, people who've been there since the beginning are really invested in the community. And I laid it out for them that, you know, here's our situation, and I got a lot of feedback from them. Knowing ultimately that I was going to make the decision. I mean, I'm the one on the lease. You know, my partner and I, my husband and I are the ones on the lease. But it was really important for me to get that community feedback and to make the decision in the collaborative process. And we did make the decision to keep the lease but I went to the landlord and asked for some rent relief during the time because like I like we had no idea how long we'd be close to And I was fortunate that because the timing of that five year renewal came and 2020, he was actually, you know, motivated to kind of keep us renting the space because there's a landlord, also, he doesn't know how long this thing's gonna, you know, be going on. So, and we've been great tenants. For him, we know, we've really taken care of this space, and also making our financial contributions on time every month. So he was motivated to keep us there. So he gave us rent relief for about another year. So are basically from summer 2020 to summer 2021. I think I remember that correctly, we got some rent relief, we didn't have to pay nothing, but we had to pay much less than our full rent. That helped us get through financially. But ultimately, what helped us the most is what you referenced earlier, which is our fee structure. So when I first started the Shala, you know, I'm in based in LA, everything around here was priced at your typical sort of like 180 $200, a month range for a Mysore style practice. And most teachers give some relief to students if they're high financial hardship, but you can talk to the teacher you work or special arrangement or whatever. And what I saw in the studios that I was practicing in, that I was teaching in assisting in is that a lot of people were just getting priced out, that's a pretty high price point for most people. And I wanted to create a space that was more inclusive, that would welcome people, you know, you have all kinds of financial situations. And so from the beginning, we've had this very open approach to our fee structure, which is that everybody contributes monthly, but that amount of your contribution is, is open, you know, each student decides what they want to contribute, we have a suggested range of 100 to $200 a month, we have students contributing less than that if they need to, but generally, people fall in the 100 to $200 a month range. And because we had set up that structure from the beginning, our students have always felt like their financial contribution is not a tit for tat, in terms of this is what I'm paying to get my teaching or whatever, you know, this is what I'm paying to be able to come to the shuttle. No, it's about this is what I'm contributing to the community. So that we the space can be open so that the teachers can show up so that we can have everything we need to practice. So everything is going to one, you know, basically. And so that ethos is actually what carried us through the pandemic, because even though our physical spaces core for 14 months, I would say the majority of our students continued to contribute financially, because they knew that I was still paying rent on the space, even though we were closed. And they knew that if they didn't, the space might not be there when we were ready to return. And we kept the community going, we had zoom practice, and we had you know, little outdoor events and stuff once that was allowed. So I tried to keep the community alive, even though we couldn't gather in person. And it's been super interesting to witness what's happened since we reopened because that community spirit, I think, got us through the pandemic, it got us to 2021 or at least summer, May of 2021 are allowed to open back up again. Since then, our community is almost entirely transformed. So most of the students that were there before the pandemic are gone. And now with almost a whole new batch of students, people either moved or stopped practicing or from, you know, other things that they wanted to do with their time. And so I've witnessed this sort of cycle of death and rebirth within the community. It's been kind of amazing to witness, you know, the vibe is totally different. My teaching partner is somebody new. So it feels like a whole new community. But now we're in that process, again, of rebuilding that community ethos with a brand new batch of people. And it just feels really cool. Because I think as I know, I've been talking for a while, but it's just a really been a really amazing experience to witness and to sort of lead the community through because I find myself less attached than I was before because I've witnessed this sort of letting go that needs to happen in order for something new to come in. So that, you know, this is what we're cultivating in our yoga practice to sort of surrender and ability to let go and not be so attached to outcome. As a teacher and as a community leader. It's been interesting to bring that practice in. And perhaps not even consciously but just have that. To have that sort of just happen and be witness to it has been pretty cool. Oh That sounds amazing. I've had we've had similar type of experience of a whole new crop and rebirth, right? And I'm feeling like, like lately, like a real like resurgence whereas, but it's taken like a while, like I just had this feeling at home, like, I'm gonna reopen and everybody's just gonna come flooding back in. And it was such a gradual and it really knocked everyone off their normal routine, like all that work that you had put into cultivating people showing up and building in time for their practice every day. And when that all like got lost, it's almost like it did it kind of hit the reset button a bit big time for sure. Yeah, I noticed that as well. Yeah, that's a great disrupter that whole time. Yeah. How I'm curious, because maybe there might be other studios, that yoga, yoga studio owners and or yoga teachers that are listening that are thinking, Hmm, I wonder if that would work for me, too. And would you and it does sound What's incredible is that people continue to contribute, because they felt the value of what you're offering. And they wanted to continue to support that, which is absolutely amazing. We had a similar type of experience here. Do I guess, are there any, like downsides? Or it sounds like it's working really well for you. But is there anything I would need to look out for if I was to try to adopt that model? Yeah, it's a great question. I would say the doing any sort of model in which that's not the conventional approach, which is, you know, this is the price and that's what you pay. It just requires a certain amount of flexibility and openness and willingness to change and adapt if something isn't working. We have an example of that early on. I had just sort of left it open. And I had not given any, I had given a suggested rate of 100 to $200. But I had just like kind of left it open on our website, in terms of most of our payments are done online. So just left it open, and people could choose. And I found that just on a design level, people were just choosing the lowest. They were just choosing 100. And I was like, well, this isn't going to work, you know, this isn't going to get me to where I need to be because I also wanted to make sure that we were solvent be losing money on the show, that was really not an option for me and my family. So we wanted to be solvent quickly. And efficiently. And so I just sort of changed. Design wise on the website, I started to offering amount, so 101 25 151 75 and 200. And just that simple design change made so much difference to those people than just were like, Okay, these are the options, and I'm just going to pick what feels right. And that's a good thing. And the first couple of years, I think we didn't have a recurring option. But then we once we added that, that also helped us a lot, because people could then could just like choose the amount and then it would just be automatic. And they wouldn't have to go through this like decision fatigue every month of like, Okay, now what am I gonna choose? And what am I going to do? So that recurring thing really helped us a lot. So things like that. Yeah, it's all part of the learning process. Yeah, it's like, you know, these little things can really help. And also just being attuned to what the community needs, my model works, because we're here, but in another community, you may need a different approach. There are lots of different options. I have friends who do like more of a sponsorship model for making sure kind of lower income students can come in. So they have they have their set rate, but then they have a rate where if you are financially abundant, and you want to sponsor somebody else, you can say a higher rate, and then that additional fee goes towards, you know, sponsoring that lower income student. Good approaches like that. Yeah, there are lots of different approaches. I think it just takes some creativity and some flexibility. Yeah. Oh, I love hearing all this. Thank you so much. I can't tell you how much I enjoy talking to other studio owners because it's such an interesting process to, to keep on top of, are you What is your biggest challenge? Currently, as a studio community facilitator owner, operator? Yeah, I mean, there are there challenges. I think most recently, what's been present for me in the last couple of years coming out of the pandemic is during that time, I also had another kid my my son was born in 2021. August of 2021. Yeah, thank you to now. But then coming out of the pandemic, so before the pandemic, I used to teach six days a week during the pandemic, you know, every like, like we talked earlier, was a great disrupter. And I had been wanting to cut down to five days a week for a long time. Just because I like having weekends for my family and for my kids. So I finally dropped Sundays during the pandemic, because we only did do Monday through Friday during the pandemic. And then once we came back to in person, we just stuck with a Monday, Friday. And then I gradually brought another teacher on who is very accomplished in her own right, but came to our struggle a little bit later. And so we've been working together for a few years. And now we she's also a mother, she's a mother of three young children. And now we've worked it out so that we each teach three days a week, so we have six days of coverage at the Shala. But we each take three days. And that's just so much more manageable for me to be able to just teach three days a week, and do as you know, it takes a lot to do the back end admin and all that stuff, you know, and then have the rest of my time for my kids. So that was a big challenge for me to sort of work out this balance between the Sharla and home life and you know, the admin and all that stuff. So now I feel like I'm in a pretty good place. That yeah, balance with with eight years under your belt. That's that's a good feeling, isn't it? Because like, there's that idea when you first start open, it's like, Okay, we got to make it one year. I mean, obviously, you sign a five year or maybe a three if you're a little nervous. But to make it three years as a small business as a huge accomplishment. The next milestone, we think five, you get to five year Holy Cow have made it to get to and you're like, okay, something's happened in here like this is? Yeah, we've got this ball rolling. What What are your hours like when you teach? What time do you start? And for how long do you operate? And are you teaching? Yeah, my sore? are you operating leg classes and or classes that are outside of the Ashtanga model as well, such as a gentle yen or any of that type of stuff? Yeah, no, our Salah is actually pretty exclusively I Stanga. And we, before the pandemic, we had an afternoon program and a morning program. But our afternoon program was always was always pretty small. And it totally dropped away during the pandemic. And we've tried to gauge interest in an afternoon program and just hasn't really hit. And so we're just opening the mornings now. Students come in as early as 630, or seven. And we're there at the Shala till usually 11 or so. But that time includes teaching and practice time for the teacher. So if you look through our website, you'll see that our tagline is an autonomous and interdependent community, alleged unavailable practitioners. And we chose I chose that tagline pretty intentionally because I wanted to create an environment in which students are empowered, they're not dependent on the teacher all the time. So the shell is open for over four hours, usually every morning. But Meredith, that's my partner, her and I usually only teach for about two hours. So we're teaching for a couple hours and then doing our practice afterwards, usually, so students are welcome to stay late and practice with us and come early and start their practice before we arrive. But we usually offer instruction for about two hours. And in that way, students are not always looking to us to do stuff for them, you know, we're happy to guide them and offer adjustments and instruction, while we're in that teaching role. But we also encourage them to not be super dependent on always having a teacher there. Yeah. And also it kind of breaks down this hierarchy when they you know, when they see us, okay, at a certain time and the rooms, quieting down, we're gonna roll our mat out, and just be with them as fellow practitioners. Because, for me, it's very important to, yes, there's a certain amount of hierarchy that comes with being in a teacher role, but then it's important at a certain time to let that go and just be in community with with everybody else. Agreed, I've never been I've never been the sort of teacher who likes to sit on a pedestal or stand on a pedestal. You know, I just want to acknowledge that I have accumulated some experience some wisdom that's come from that experience, and I'm here to offer that. But ultimately, teaching for me is a collaborative process. And the practice, you know, the student owns their practice. I don't own their practice. Great point. What have you what have you seen in relation to the astanga world where that pitfall you've seen people fall into that pitfall of say, pedestal, putting up on the pedestal? What type of outcomes have you seen? Because of that approach? Obviously, everything comes with good and bad, you know, some positive benefits, some maybe not so or what is it about that, that you are skeptical or careful to not fall into yourself? Yeah. So I think that You know, at a certain in the in the early stages of one's practice, I think it can be really beneficial to surrender to a process. And to trust that the person leading you through that process has your best interests in mind, and is holding that sort of mantle for you, you know, and encouraging you to work through challenges. And also encouraging you to, you know, know or figure out when to soften, and take it easy. And so it can be really, really helpful. And actually, I would say it might be essential at the beginning to give part of your, I don't want to say give part of yourself, but just allow somebody to hold that for you, you know, trust somebody. The thing is that, you want to make sure you're trusting the right person, you know, you want to make sure you're trusting somebody who really does have your best interests at heart, not their own ego, or their own career, or their own allegiance to something that they've pledged allegiance to, which, you know, is a little opaque, but I think we can probably all know what I'm talking about and the Ashtanga world, there is a hierarchy built in, in the conventional Ashtanga world. And so if one's teacher is really baked into that hierarchy, and it can be difficult for that person to look at the student in front of them and teach that person versus teaching whatever system that they feel allegiance to. Yeah, well said. Yeah. So. So yeah, I think there can be benefits to, to surrendering at the beginning, at some point in the practice process. For some people take a couple years, few years, five to 10 years, I would say within five to 10 years, if you're still super dependent on your teacher, like that teacher has done a disservice, in my opinion, because you and I started our practitioners specifically, this is a self practice, right? The way that it's taught my style, we're not doing the same thing as everybody else. At the same time, we're building a practice that's our own, we should be able to take it. You know, anywhere we should be able to practice when we're on vacation, we should be able to practice in when we're in a pandemic, we should be able to practice in half an hour if we that's all the time we have between taking care of our kids and work or whatever our responsibilities are. I think, yes, it's a good teacher job to to empower one student and make sure they have enough confidence in their practice, that they can figure things out for themselves. Yeah, I think the pitfall of teaching in a very authoritarian way is that the students are just disempowered. Great point. Great point, I guess what it's so seductive, though, to be in that hierarchical environment, I suppose. That's what the attraction is maybe like there's like a certain level of I mean, I personally from my own experience of traveling to Mysore and, and practicing, this was in 2004. And I mean, it was really seductive in the sense of, like, easing, like, I was like, wow, but I also have this feeling of humility, or feeling like, everybody is so much higher than me and above me, which, which did feel kind of nice. Like, I felt like it was a humbling type of experience. And I think that was also a little bit attractive, too. But I personally because I had been coming from the Bikram yoga world, my wife and I used to own a Bikram yoga studio down in San Diego. Yeah. And so I would travel and practice with them. And I saw a lot of like abuse stuff that went down with him that yeah, kind of caused me to, like we got to get out of here. And we thought, let's go to Mysore and practice with batavi Joyce, and it seemed very different to me at the time, like it seemed like Well, obviously, like going to Mysore and seeing the Mysore practice was a huge eye opener in terms of self practice, and someone not barking orders at you while you're practicing is extremely attractive. But I also at the same time felt like I don't want to fall into that hierarchical structure again, and try to climb that ladder. Like I just saw all the bad stuff that can happen that from that with the Yeah, the last, the last the end ago, perspective that I saw there. So I'm curious what you have this sort of maturity I'm getting from you like where you just kind of seem like a free agent and you're comfortable with that. You're not necessarily clamoring to climb that ladder ladder to get some sort of social status. And I'm curious, where did that come from? How did you get fortune I don't, I don't know. Maybe I've always had a bit of a rebellious spirit. So it's probably just inbuilt. But, you know, early on in my, in my teaching, there was more conflict around it. But I feel like I've had these moments in my life sort of fork in the road moment. And I do, I do think there's something inbuilt in me Where once I come to those fork in the road moment, and I choose, I have a tendency to just be good with my decision. And so I did have that fork in the road moment with Ashtanga Yoga, in terms of teaching where I had gone to Mysore one time, it's actually the year after put out the choice died. So I didn't meet him, but I practiced the charts. And I like you said it was very seductive and not just productive. But it was very meaningful. I had a great time there. For me, going to India is a bit more complex, perhaps than the average Westerner because I am Indian myself. So already for me, the smoke and mirrors don't really do much, you know, like, I'm not, I'm not. So what we're talking about the word seduced, I'm not supposed to do by all that all the trappings. And I think there are a lot of trappings. I think India is a beautiful place. But anyone that comes from a culture sees the complexities in the culture, you know, in a more intimate way than somebody looking from the outside usually. So for me, India is is is a complicated place. And I love it. And so yeah, I loved being there. I came back, and I was teaching it back in LA for a while I hadn't opened my shell yet, but around the time where maybe a year or so before I was going to open it, I had to make a decision, like, am I going to keep going to Mysore? And or is this or am I going to do my own thing. And, you know, my heart was telling me like, that's not that path is not for you, like I said, my teacher was, has been mantra joy. And I don't really believe in a lot of what they're doing in my sort these days, I don't believe that everybody needs to stand there from a drop back, I don't believe that everybody needs to bind their hand and typical Meissner, all these little benchmarks, I just don't think it's beneficial for most students to have to meet these aesthetic benchmarks to be able to progress in their practice. And so for me, it became a choice of, okay, I can choose to climb the ladder, just to have the paper and just to have the status, but I'm probably still going to teach the way I want to teach. So then I'd be lying, you know, so, but I just don't, I don't want to lie. I don't want to be inauthentic in that way. So I just thought, I'm not going to do it. I'm just going to do my own thing. And I got some backlash from the more conventional community here. And that was hard. And some of them were my friends before. But you know, that's part of following your own path, you know, ruffle some feathers. I'm okay with it now. And, you know, it's it's interesting to observe that of the several Ashtanga programs that were here on the west side of LA. There's maybe a couple they're still around, and I'm one of them, so I feel pretty good. I agree. 100%. I agree. 100%, it feels so good to just do something because you love it. And then to have that love actually keep you going. So amazed. Yeah. If we don't if we don't love if we Yeah, if there's no love there, then why are we doing it? In my opinion? You know, that's a little sad to me to see, like, some of these more, you know, you could say strict or conventional teachers that seem to have no love anymore. Left. And just a little sad. Little sad for their students. Yep. Korean point. Yes. What have you have, I want to ask you this. I'm a little nervous to ask you because I know it just takes us down a very potentially uncomfortable conversation point. So I am willing to just like, jump ship from this question right away. If you're like, please, I don't know. I don't want to talk about it. So I I just appreciate that. I just recently read the trauma of cast by Finn Mozi sunder Rajan. And have you read that? No, I haven't read it. Oh my gosh. So then maybe I won't be able to ask this question. But it's it's just a roundabout like the caste system in India. And it just opened my eyes. Really big time. And I love that you brought up the smoke and mirrors element because I think like a lot of us Westerners going to India. It's like, dazzling in terms of spirituality think wow, this is where all the answers lie. You know, this is like one of the oldest civilizations where some of these things I've been questioning seem to have been worked out a long time ago and perhaps Everest Yeah, thought has been already thought before, everything has been explored already. And there's nothing. It's all here. And therefore, and I saw the caste system. And I was like, Whoa, this is heavy. You know, like, it wasn't really apparent to me. But it was, but I didn't really know what was going on. But it just seemed like, this is so interesting. So I just would just like to ask you, I guess. Yeah. Because growing up here and going there, I just so curious how you how you feel about all that interpret it? Yeah. You know, it's interesting that, you know, the answers are here, like, and when you said that, about India, the first thought that came to my mind was yes, the answers are all there and the answers are everywhere. You know, like yes, virtuality there, there is a deep well of spirituality in India. There are also deep wells and spirituality within the Christian faith, within Jewish faith within the Muslim faith, there are deep wells of spirituality in all these traditions. And along with those the wells of spirituality, there are all the complexities of being human, in the real world, and on practical level, and the caste system. Yeah, you know, as Westerners, especially in this cultural moment, I think we have a tendency to, sort of just like, you know, in America, at least white supremacy is something that just talks about so much racism, anti black racism, you know, racism, against racism against all kinds of people of color, as if White people are the only perpetrators of racism and coming from a culture that does still adhere, perhaps not so officially, but unofficially, to the caste system, like I mean, it is very alive in India, still, it's always been so clear to me that racism, or sort of discrimination, more broadly, human beings, separating ourselves and judging other people based on whatever characteristics we choose. That has been going on, since the beginning of civilization that's not new or unique to America or the Western world. It happens in India, it happens across the world. And so what that teaches me is that these things are universal, right? Like, there's no need to demonize a specific group of people, because actually, we all do it, we all do it. And so the work then, is to reach into our wealth, where the spiritual where our virtual hearts are live, and try to bring that love into the real world, and put it into action. mean, in essence, to me, when I think about activism, like, you know, it, activism, now, it's such a watered down term. And it's come to mean something very specific. But when I think about activism, I think about people like Gandhi, MLK, you know, like, and those are just the ones that come to mind, you know, but these are people that lead with love, and they're complex human beings, too. I'm not saying that they were perfect. You dig a little deeper into both of their histories. And there's complexity there. There's nuance there, you know, but no human being is perfect. We can only try to lead with love. And, yeah, I think we need that in all parts of the world. And it doesn't do us any good to look through rose colored glasses, at any specific part of the world. Beautifully said. Great answer. I think you navigated that really well. Yeah. You had. I know. It's a tough one. But you made it feel really, really easy. So good job. Thank you. I'm curious you had brought up earlier right before we hit the record button, have expressing interest in? Maybe they're discussing or mentioning the idea of inclusivity? And then the broadening that potentially you'd like to see happen in the Istanbul world? Can you speak a little bit about Yeah, thinking in that direction? Yeah, I mean, I think it can start with really practical and practical ways. You know, we were just talking about the sort of aesthetic benchmark that sometimes students are encouraged to, you know, accomplish or whatever be proficient in whatever language people use before moving on. I think just opening that up can make a space more inclusive just on a physical level. It can, it can make it so that people are not so concerned with the aesthetics of their posture. And I think it can bring the awareness more internal, when we're focused on what's happening with our breath? And how are we feeling in our bodies? How is our stamina, all these things, if those can be our guiding forces, in terms of, you know, how we're progressing through the series. And also, if we can open up the sequences a little bit so that after a student has put in their five years or whatever, even before that, there can be some openness on, hey, I have this specific issue, can I bring in some postures from second series, or even third series to address this issue? If we can be more open with things like that, we already create a more inclusive space. And then the financial aspect is another part, you know, can we open up our practice spaces so that they're inclusive to all kinds of people on the financial spectrum in terms of socio economic status, and there's a lot of talk about diversity, you know, in, in the culture more broadly, and in the yoga world. I think diversity is very important. But if we're only thinking about diversity in terms of race, or whatever specific metric we have in mind, that's narrow in and of itself, you know, if you actually I found at least that if we open up the financial side of things, we get people coming in with lots of different life experiences. And the racial diversity, at least in some, you know, where I am at least a place like LA, it automatically happens, because we're opening up who can walk in the door, you know, but then in addition to that, you get, you know, different viewpoints, because a person that can afford 200, ollars, a month without a problem, and a different life perspective, life experiences than someone who can only afford 50. You know, it's just, they just have different life experiences. And so then we bring in different perspectives into the room. And I also think it's really important. This is a bit of a maybe controversial thing to say, but it's become clear to me that politically, also, you know, there's this sense that yoga studios need to adhere to a particular ideology, and I think that can actually be a little exclusionary, because what if somebody wants to come practice? Who voted for Trump in the last election? Like, are we not going to make that person feel comfortable? You know, I'm not saying that teachers have to, like, cut off their own views or not speak about politics at all in the space. In fact, you know, maybe it's useful in some context. But I've just become aware of that in the last few years that, you know, we're not in a situation in which half the country is good and half the country's evil, I just really don't believe that. I believe that there are things we need to learn from each other. And whatever we can do to make people comfortable communing, being together. For me, that feels very important. Yes. Excellent. I agree. And I think you you, I imagine you have some of that living in Florida, you know that you have a range of perspective coming in? Oh, boy. Oh, my gosh, yeah. I mean, that's a great, I mean, it's a really good question. Because I got the track that I always take is I just don't talk about it at all. Unless I'm on a one on one level. And then, you know, maybe there'll be a reason to converse. But I really try to keep the politics out of our studio. Because as you see, as you know, it just that's such a heavy thing. But I mean, the politics element is really just like the polarization element, it seems. And then we could be polarized with any subject, like as we're seeing, right? There's polarity on every topic. So I don't know like, lately, personally, I keep getting this incredible sense that we're going through something that's just so amazing, right now, it seems so heavy at times, but also at the same time, I think we're going to really come out for the better, we're gonna like it might have to get really, really tough for us to get to that point where we can look at each other and see respect for each other, even though there's differences and opinions, but I do think we're gonna come out in some really incredible space like, what do you think probably do when you think of? Could could the world could we live in it could the earth that we live on? Could we all actually get along? Or do we have to have struggle and strife and conflict for existence to be existence? Is it is it silly for me to even dream of a world where we all see not necessarily the same, but we just have respect for each other no matter what, because we see each other as one human family, or is that just absolute nonsense because through the competition, the struggle on this strife. That's what builds our character and makes us learn something, I guess. Well, yeah, I don't think we could find any answer to this right now. I don't. But where have you been with? With? Yeah, these are big questions. These are big questions. And I think it's, it's tempting to want to have an answer. But these are I think these are unanswerable questions. But that doesn't mean there's not value in asking them and conversing about them. You know, diving deep. I don't think it's silly to, to dream of a world in which we can have mutual respect for each other. To me, that seems. That seems like it should be a baseline, right? Unfortunately, why is that? Yeah. Why is that such an outlandish idea? Yeah, and I don't think it's outlandish, but it's, it's difficult. And I think, you know, like, all we can do is our little part, that's how I feel. And so for me, like, my little part is okay, how can in my small life? How can I live in a way that, that honors that ideal, where I'm actually putting into practice these things that I believe in? And so for me, it's like, actually, things like, reaching out to people who I who might, like really believe different stuff than I do. And being like, hey, our kids, like get along, like, maybe we should, like, go for lunch, or maybe we should get together or, you know, our family should meet up and things like that. Because only through putting ourselves in uncomfortable situations, are we going to actually get anywhere. I think the second point that you said is also like really valid and that we do need some conflict and some discomfort, to catalyze transformation. And I don't mean that in the way that like, we need to manufacture it, we don't need to manufacture suffering. But just because we all have our little egos that we live with, there's going to be times when we have conflict with other people. And so if we can engage in that conflict, consciously and compassionately then if so if we can do it, you know, in our little lives, then perhaps that can build and we can do it on a community level. And maybe on a country level and national level, you know, I so for me, yeah, I just really believe in starting small starting with what you have. Yeah, yeah, great point. What, either posture or certain movement direction Have you had to either let go of or maybe soften on the intensity that you pushed on going in that direction due to age? Or just evolution? Or oh, my gosh, however, yeah, I mean, our aging process. Aging Process. Yes. After my second child, I feel like my aging process, catalyzed significantly, there was something hormonal that shifted after I had him but and I see it and feel it, mostly in my joints, my knees specifically. So I have had to back off and a lot on stuff that aggravates or puts pressure on the knees, and I'm talking about, you know, sometimes I'll do lotus, but I can go entire weeks where I never put my legs and motors, I've never even put my legs in half lotus, because it doesn't feel right, or there's some pain that I'm experiencing or whatever. And it's actually pretty cool. Because I think as I stand up, we're like, so attached to our Lotus positions, you know, so just to let that go and find different ways of working into those postures. And then when my knees are feeling decent, to find ways of doing a lotus position that are much more engaged because I have generally my joints are over flexible and so I don't have to really work very hard to put myself in some of these Lotus type positions, I haven't had to work very hard historically, but now if I am to enter them, I have to enter them with like, extreme amount of engagement to support my joints to support my knees so that they don't pop or have some like tear happen so so it's been really cool to to relearn how to do some of that stuff and also to let some of this stuff go entirely and be like I'm never gonna do that again. And that's okay. Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, I started doing sometimes my even my primary students practice with no lotus and things like mighty desk and A, B and D. with the leg that you know, supposed to be in lotus, I started to fold it the other way. So as if it's in green, we'll take a better question we can ask in a position Which means nothing to somebody who doesn't practice those dongles. But if you if some listeners are familiar, then you can kind of picture what I'm saying. So it's a totally different way of doing money doesn't A, B, and D. But it feels great on my knees. And it's just been really fun to do things like that. Do you find because when you're an external rotation position, such as Padmasana, that's where it triggers? Is it your medial or lateral knee that you feel it when you're in next time? Yeah, it's on the inside, it's on the inside. So yeah, sort of loaded positions quite aggravated. And to the point where there can be a little bit of snapping that happens. And this used to happen earlier on too. But what I've, what I've noticed is that, as I've aged, is just like the recovery doesn't happen as quickly. And so I can't afford to just be like, well, you know, like, that's fine. No, I have to, like, take care of it before, in anticipation of some issue that might arise. Oh, man, I hear you. And then because you have a two year you have a two year old. And so later on, in the day after practice, you got to clean up the cheese, it's off the floor. And so you're like, getting, you gotta stand up, you're like, oh, my gosh, how am I gonna get up? Right? Like, what the heck's I gotta, there's a lot more, I gotta pick him up in the middle of the night. Room, like, there's all kinds of things, right? So for me, it's like, yeah, before children, I could spend the rest of my day like nursing all my little aches and pains that I don't have that luxury anymore. So I need to practice in a way that's really going to support the rest of my life. And that's what I like to instill in my students to like, you have to practice in a way that's going to support whatever your life is. So I have some students whose life can be their practice. But I have to say, don't have that many students like that anymore. I did, maybe before the pandemic, but most of my students now have full lives, whether they're parents or they're working full time, or whatever it is. They need their practice to be supportive to the rest of their life, not the less rest of their life is there to support their practice, you know, so So we teach in that way at the shallow that's, you know, like, you know, efficient, your practice doesn't have to take forever, you can modify things you got to take, yeah, no challenge oneself to the point where it feels beneficial. That but not past that edge, necessarily. That is so good to hear. I think it's really important to talk about that. And skidded out there for all of us. But because personally, I agree with you too, I've, I've had to do that with my knees and with my back bending and with my end. And at first, it was a sense of loss. And now it's this big sense of gain, because there's so much less pressure that I'm putting on myself, and it just feels so good to just actually enjoy breathing and, and supporting versus competing. And yeah, and it's a gift to our students also. Because I think unless we've had that experience, and we really honored it, we can talk a good game. But if our students can see us practicing in the same way, every day of regardless of what our body feels like, whatever it is we're going through, then they know that we're not really walking the walk. What about when you do your YouTube videos, do you like the other day I had a friend, I went to do some photos on the beach. And I've gone through these phases where I've been really trying to not post anything with yoga poses in it, because I feel like some of my peers have been like, you know, really encouraging the conversation of like, yoga is not just about us and everybody and destroying really fancy complicated us and it's not gonna attract people to yoga, it's gonna scare them. And or give the false impression of what it's about. And then I just figured, you know what, let me just do something, I enjoy them and just go do a photoshoot on the beach. And so I, of course, pushed way harder than I probably needed to be. So like, I know that you're involved with camera work, and you do a phenomenal job with your YouTube channel. Well, how do you balance that? When, like, a little sense of you, that's like, Okay, I really should push because people are gonna be watching I need to make a good representation of where I am in my life right now. And then later on in life, right? Yeah. But do do ya do? Coach? Yeah, it's um, so I made a conscious decision early on in my teaching career that I wasn't going to be very public with my own awesomeness in terms of images and stuff. So because of exactly what you just said, I don't want to give people a perception of like, this is what they should look like when they're practicing yoga or anything like that. So any images of me that are online practicing or videos or practicing, or just have me while I'm actually practicing, so yes, it's not like there are no images of me out there there are, you can find them. But I have never really like done a photo shoot from, from my own astronauts in for promotional purposes. But I do have a lot of videos on my YouTube, and but they're not of Me. They're practice videos. And honestly, I haven't put a new video up in a long time just because my kids have taken up most of my attention. But all my my practice videos are very intentional. And I think the reason that people like them are because I include students that all look a little different from each other, and not just look, in terms of you know, like their ethnicity and their physical stature. There is diversity in those respects, but also in terms of what their Asana looks like, I offer modifications in all my videos. You know, sometimes you see practice videos where modifications are offered, but it's, they're offered, they're modeled by someone who can already do the asana, like perfectly, but they're just showing the modification. And that's good. But I think it can be more people can relate to it more when they see a student who actually need that modification, you know, like they need to do it that way. So I have been intentional about showing those types of students in my videos. And I hope to do a second series one next year, right now I have a half primary, a full primary, a half and half, half primary half intermediate. And I'm hoping to get a full intermediate one up next year, because I really believe in the power of a second series, I just think it's an amazing sequence are really transformative for the nervous system. So I think like most students, if they're dedicated, should be practicing intermediate. And there's so many modifications to make it accessible, you know, so, yeah, so I think in terms of, you know, having an online presence, the question that you asked is, I think we just need to be authentic. And for me, this is the decision that felt authentic is to not put myself put too many images of myself out there in a performative way. But to make sure that the, the, the con, the, the content that I am putting out there is actually going to be useful to people. Oh, well said, Thank you so much for explaining all that. I think it's great to even think about that, because I know there's obviously situations where people are going Oh, who cares? I'm just showing off I don't want to think about that. So I liked that you explained the reason the reasons why it's important to keep it where it's not performative and and I love the fact that you said you brought up you're bringing your real life students in who have realized need for not brown not putting a leg behind the head. Exactly the other day I thought you know, I haven't done second series in a while because I've been trying to avoid back I'm trying to be very careful with backbending and to to like discuss you and but then I thought I love second series so much and I've been staying away from it let me just do it without doing any backbends but not skipping any the back bends. So like Campbell just put hands on the hips, but just don't be awkward and just something like that cup of toss and it just made. Yeah. And I had so much fun. I really actually had fun. I think and I think it's important what you're talking about to keep the keep it real. Yeah that's a good motto. Keep it real. Keep it real. All right. Yeah, yeah, let's just keep it simple and keep it real. Yeah, it's that it's that easy. I guess then Well, yeah, I think we you know, as humans we we like to make things complicated. But in essence, I think things are pretty simple. Oh, it's about stripping away you know, stripping away which can sometimes be the hardest part. Yeah. Through thoroughly enjoyed this, thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking time and and I know being a parent, you're busy as heck. And so in owning studio, you're super busy. So thank you so much for carving out this time for me and trusting me and not knowing me and being willing to come on and be as open and honest as you are. So I really do appreciate it. Is there anything? Yeah, thank you. You're welcome. Is there anything that I missed and or in the process of turning in toward the conclusion that you would like to add and or share or offer some inspiration? I really I'm trying to just pump out as much positivity as possible. So anything you can and say to kind of just like, for all of us listening does help us to, you know, kind of keep pushing forward here. Is there any thoughts you have? Beyond what, a lot of great stuff, but you know, I just, I think that something we touched on earlier is coming to me as perhaps a closing note of inspiration. And that's just to lead with love. And I don't mean that in kind of a woowoo way, and you know, there's this love and light sort of phrase that gets trust tossed around in our community. And that's not what I mean, I don't mean that everything is easy. What I mean is that when we choose to lead with love, sometimes it requires struggle, and discomfort, whether that's on the mat physically, or off the mat, in our relationships, our relationships with ourselves, our relationships with other people. If we can choose love I think we're on the right track. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Todd. Yeah, it's been a real pleasure. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and, you know, providing me the space to share my perspective. Cool. I will reach out to you again in the future and see what what you've learned, like in a year or two or something and see, I look forward to it. Bill, thanks, found a D is so great. And I will, I will be in touch. Great. Thank you. My wife's family live out in California. So next time, they're like in kind of Newport area. So next time, not too far. Not too far. But next time I come out, I'll come practice with you. And great, and I really look forward to it. So I will see you soon. Okay, likewise. Thank you. Bye, bye. Hi, Todd. It's pretty the I just put my kids to bed. And I've been thinking about our conversation, specifically, those parting words that I left your listeners with, lead with love. And you know, I've just been reflecting on those words and thinking about, you know, how sort of vague that can sound. And just parenting to young children, you know, I realized there's so many opportunities for me to learn about love from them, the way they're incredibly forgiving, and give me so much grace, when I'm imperfect as most parents are, and how many times I have to take a deep breath. And, you know, remember that I love them. It's just such a gift to be able to have that practice, you know, the practice of parenting. And I think because of that I have like a really practical approach to, to these big concepts like leading with love. Because to me, it's in these small, small acts, this like taking a deep breath, or my my kids, you know, giving me a hug, five seconds after I've yelled at them or something. These are the moments you know, where the transformation happens. And I think it that applies to all of us, every moment that we can choose to be together rather than a part, even when it's uncomfortable. Choose to be with somebody in real life versus on a screen, even when it's inconvenient. And when we can choose to shed some of our baggage shed some of these identities that we tend to cling so fiercely, to, you know, shed them a little bit so that we can see that shared humanity in the person sitting across from us. I think that's how we lead with love. And so I just wanted to share that with you. And thank you again for the opportunity to reflect and, and talk and listen. And I'll be sending love to you and everybody out there who's listening. Native yoga podcast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native Yoga Center. stir.com And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time