Magnus Appelberg - Discover the Power of Cold Water Plunging

Magnus Appelberg is a yoga practitioner and cold exposure enthusiast based in Finland. He has been practicing Ashtanga Yoga for 23 years and has a deep understanding of breath control and its effects on the body. Magnus is known for his ability to withstand extreme cold temperatures and has even set a personal record of staying in ice-cold water for one hour. He shares his knowledge and experiences through his website and courses, helping others eliminate stress and pain and reach a new level of focus and well-being.

Visit Magnus on his website: https://www.coldexposurecourse.com/
Follow him on IG at: @icelabmethod https://www.instagram.com/icelabmethod/

Key Takeaways:

• Cold exposure can have physiological and mental benefits, including increased dopamine levels and reduced anxiety.
• Breath control plays a crucial role in adapting to cold temperatures and maintaining a relaxed state.
• The practice of cold exposure can help cultivate a sense of curiosity and openness to uncomfortable situations.

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Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com All right, let's begin Hello, my name is Todd McLaughlin. Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast today.... Magnus Appelberg. He lives in Finland. Thank you, Frank Kappas for introducing me to Magnus. You got to check them out. Oh my gosh, you got I mean, you're here. So you're listening. You made it this far. Go all the way through. Go all the way to the end. Magnus is incredible. What a great storyteller. I feel like his experience with cold water plunging. astanga yoga, and Vipassana meditation is just so great. You gotta check him out on his website, magnusappelberg.com. Follow him on Instagram at @icelabmethod. He has a cold therapy online course called at coldexposurecourse.com titled eliminate stress and pain and reach a new level of focus, energy and physical well being in the next 30 days. He's also written a book called Ice Cold Peace of Mind. Unfortunately, not in English yet, but you're gonna get a good taste of what Magnus is up to living on an island in the archipelago of Finland. Oh my gosh, you got to hear this. Alright, so without any without any more hesitation. And Magnus, thank you so much. Love this. Thank you. Alright, let's begin. Wow, I'm so happy to have this opportunity to meet and speak with Magnus Appelberg. And how this came about if you have not had a chance to listen to a recent episode with Frank Kappas who lives in Finland and is an Ashtanga Yoga teacher. He was kind enough when I asked him, Is there anybody that you think would be, you know, I could talk to? He said, he got to speak with my friend Magnus. And so here we are. And Magnus, thank you so much. You're in Finland. And you know I am so delighted to have this opportunity to talk with you. How is your day going so far? I think it's around about 1:30pm there so I think you're in the afternoon in Finland. How are things going for you today?

Magnus Appelberg: 3:18

Well, hi Todd. It's really my honor to be here. I think I go in pretty windy it's getting closer to zero and the Celcius is still six degrees. So I'm giving all this nature reports because with my wife we are living on an island in the archipelago like 340 kilometers from Helsinki wow so we are really in the middle of nature all the time. Wow.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:52

How far away is the island from the mainland?

Magnus Appelberg: 3:59

No it's pretty close to the mainland. So with the boat I get there like in five minutes.

Todd McLaughlin: 4:05

Gotcha. And in the winter Are you still able to pass does that boat go back and forth in the middle of winter? Or is it that type of thing you have to have all your supplies ready to go and you might have to hunker down for for a while.

Magnus Appelberg: 4:22

Now it's like for the last two winters we had ice here in front of us for only a week or two because the winters has been so mild, normal wise that you walk on the eyes for a couple of months here. But But now Now it's been really lousy winters in one way but it makes it easier to swim Of course you don't have to cut your hole in the ice.

Todd McLaughlin: 4:54

Oh man Well, mostly

Magnus Appelberg: 4:56

by boat even through the winter. I have an aluminium boat which breaks the ice up to three centimeter. Wow. I

Todd McLaughlin: 5:07

live in Florida, the thought of ice, the thought of ice is a very foreign concept. I grew up here and I didn't even see snow until I was I think I was 18 or 19 was the first time I actually got up north and saw snow. And so when I see when I had been watching on Instagram, and seeing some of your videos with you swimming in the under the ice on top of the ice, I just I don't even know where to begin, you know, because when, when the water temperature here gets down like in, you know, mid 70s You know, I'm putting a wetsuit on and, you know, the wind is blowing. I figured I figured you laugh at that, right? You know, because because I grew up in such a different type of climate. And I love the fact that you just use the terminology like you know, because the winters have not been extremely cold for you that you said like, you know, these, the winters have, they haven't been very good. Like you're seeking, you almost want it to get colder. And I have so many questions for you. Because you know what, soon as I get into colder weather, my fingers start tingling, and I just I have a challenge. I just haven't gotten acclimated to it. Can you tell me a little bit about how is it something that you grew up with? And when you were a young child, someone said, Let's go swimming? or later on in life? Did you get this idea? Like, you know, I'm just gonna go in I've been away for a while. Yeah, tell me how you got started with this.

Magnus Appelberg: 6:43

Yeah, it's a it's a normal thing is in love. You have this song, of course, you heard about some really hot, hot steam room. And in the winter, we always combined it with going into the ice hole will always and always. But like 20 years ago, I started this this habit or sauna and I swim. But it was kind of no matter how hard I often I, I practiced, I couldn't swim more than 50 meters. And it was like, Oh, my God, I can't move anymore. I got to get up.

Todd McLaughlin: 7:25

Yes. Yes. More than like, so you try to swim. And you could get about 50 meters. But am I correct in hearing that you I believe Frank mentioned or either I read on your website that you've been able to stay in that freezing cold water for up to an hour?

Unknown: 7:48

Is that correct? Correct. A whole? That's correct.

Todd McLaughlin: 7:51

I just don't see how that's possible.

Magnus Appelberg: 7:56

Well, it's, it's a question of adaptation. And the adaptation is the question now, how you have to kind of meet direction in stereo physiology. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 8:09

Yep. So it is a slow gradual process of building up like, if I went and visited you tomorrow in Finland, and we got a good ice storm. And you said, Come with me in the water. There's no way I would make it an hour, right? Like, What wouldn't I die? I mean, honestly,

Magnus Appelberg: 8:27

you would die like, honestly, you will be seriously injured in 10 minutes, and you will be numb, do you, we'd have to, you will be unconscious. Because your system is not adapted. You can't force the adaptation. But the adaptation can be amazingly fast. So I personally, when I do I do the service weekend retreats, where we go into the code, like during one weekend for five times. Really? I mean, we prepare, and then we try to do it in a good, good way. So after staying like 40 seconds, some people come screaming out, and this is not possible the first time. But then the last time they might stay in five minutes, seven minutes, and everything's cool.

Unknown: 9:23

Wow. Wow. So

Magnus Appelberg: 9:26

you it's a learning process. Yeah. Yes.

Unknown: 9:33

Oh, well.

Todd McLaughlin: 9:35

If you had that for you at that point, was it a goal to stay there for one hour? Was that like a challenge that you had set for yourself? Had you had you built up

Magnus Appelberg: 9:49

was because it was three years ago when I turned 60. So you know, we did this yogic tradition about doing doing as many back bends backdrops as the Yes, you're turning. So I've got 60 backdrops. What about seating for 60 minutes? Yes. So I started, I started to do serious practice for that. Before that my maximum was 30 minutes. Wow.

Unknown: 10:20

That's in go Aye. Aye.

Magnus Appelberg: 10:23

It was in August, I had been all the summer swimming in the warm, warm water for us warm water is 50 degrees. 70 degrees and about. I don't know what that's in Fahrenheit. But yes, it's a bit. It's a bit more.

Todd McLaughlin: 10:40

I hear.

Magnus Appelberg: 10:41

Yeah, so it's the first session was 10 minutes. And I gradually gradually got by. So I got got the deal. In five weeks, I got to 45 minutes without any problems. I've been I had only a couple of days left. So is that the jump from 45 to 60 minutes was quite a challenge. I remember. I felt slightly cold after I did,

Todd McLaughlin: 11:11

like slightly cooled slightly cold in the way. Were you being medically supervised when you would do this? Or do is this the sort of thing that you always have somebody watching?

Magnus Appelberg: 11:22

Even tougher. I had my wife. Oh,

Todd McLaughlin: 11:27

well, gosh, yeah. I mean, was she was she wanting you to achieve this? Or was there a part of it?

Magnus Appelberg: 11:34

She didn't want me to do it. But he she she knows. She knows me for more than 30 years. So I realized no, this this thing here. So she was just open your eyes. I want to see that your eyes not rolling. Good. You can continue.

Unknown: 11:50

Oh my gosh.

Magnus Appelberg: 11:54

Really? Yeah, it might. It might. Might sound pretty much but it's not it's a different thing to sit in the winter in the the in the ice hole because then the outside temperature is minus and there's always a weakness. So one this was I was just sitting in a chest freezer with ice cold water mixed with a lot of ice. So it was steady about zero degrees all the time the ice melt. Gotcha. So then, when sitting indoors, your your your head is in room temperature is different. I mean, it's easy. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 12:36

Oh, man. So what are you a student or a friend or a colleague of Wim Hof? No.

Magnus Appelberg: 12:45

Okay. No. I mean, I, I know, Wayne's work since 15 years, but I never really tried it. Yeah, because of his strong breathing technique. Bigger because like 30 years ago, or more, I did a lot of these hyperventilation, things like rebirthing Holotropic, breathing, and comes with many brands. And it's a very strong cathartic work. And it's not my cup of tea anymore. Like I've been there, I've done it, I'm not going back. So what I doing is actually 180 degrees in the different opposite direction. So how I prepare for the cold is like very slow, very long exhalations, to, to cool cooldown my autonomic nervous system. It's like, it's a very, very simple Prince principle, you know, in pranayama, we breathe in kind of half the half the amount that we breathe out. So if you breathe in one, or let's say four counts, we breathe out eight. So what about breathing out as long as possible? That makes it really interesting thing, and then you get in a very much different state. And when you hit the cold, you, you strive to get back to that state as soon as possible. Because the first gasp of the ice cold water is not non negotiable. Everybody gets it. But the thing is, how fast do you get back into a relaxed state? So the adaptation takes place.

Todd McLaughlin: 14:38

Interesting. So is this just technically your nose breathing mouth closed?

Unknown: 14:47

Yeah, into

Magnus Appelberg: 14:49

breathing through my nose and breathing out with different kinds of sounds for example, or through my nose or using O J breath like in Ashtanga Yoga So I'm experimenting with Yeah. Like your simple Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 15:11

That's so interesting, Magnus because it sounds like you're just like in the laboratory. Just figuring it out in the moment. Well, what if I try this? What if I try that? What type of effect does it have on my nervous system? And that's incredible. Is it? Just to go back a little bit though on that one hour set? In Nice. What was? Is that? Is that a world record of some sorts? Or was it documentaries is purely just a self? This is a self induced, like, this is just for me. And I'm not. I don't have a news crew on me or, or? Gotcha.

Magnus Appelberg: 15:48

All right. That's for me. All right. Do you have English one? One hour is still nothing. The world record of ice bath is that two hours, 35 minutes, something like that. Gotcha. That's, that's really heavy.

Todd McLaughlin: 16:01

That's really heavy. Yeah. What are your I recently I love I read a book by James Nesta called breath. And then I went back to one of his other books called Deep where he chronicles the, you know, the freediving champions. Yeah, I read that too. Yeah. Isn't that amazing. And it's so fascinating, because what you're talking about just in terms of what you're attempting to do, with being able to regulate your nervous system in that cold environment, and what freediving attempts to do with breath, holding and going incredibly deep, and holding for an incredibly long period of time. And yeah, my

Magnus Appelberg: 16:41

first touch with free free free dialing was actually more than 2020 years ago. And now recently, I taken up free diving in a small scale again, we my teacher, Johanna, node blood was done the world record in ice diving. Wow, you train us from ice hope to another under the ice, the only swim trunks swim trunks and goggles. No fins, no flippers. 103 meters.

Todd McLaughlin: 17:15

She's a world record holder. She's tough. And you're training with her?

Magnus Appelberg: 17:21

We Yeah, I don't mind some free diving. VVP without some cold exposure together, just just enjoying it and then sharing, sharing tips of how to practice and how to adapt and, and breath carbon dioxide. Everything. Just she's inspiring.

Todd McLaughlin: 17:46

Yeah, amazing. It sounds like it. Now, what is your experience with yoga and Ashtanga Yoga?

Magnus Appelberg: 17:56

So I've been doing daily practice Ashtanga Yoga for 23 years. And Frank was actually my first teacher. Oh, nice. Yeah, so and he got me into the personna meditation also. So me and my wife, we have done 310 days, retreats, and we do Vipassana daily. But it's like for 20 years now. But the rigorous, Ashtanga practice rigorous Vipassana practice, is at some point, you know, you you start wondering, Hey, what about if I stand start doing something different? Still following the same direction? I mean, following the breath, and researching about physiology, what am I actually physiology do doing when I'm doing this practice? How can I keep it even further on? And how does that change my life? Where, what different kind of practice can I do? Or where does this take me? So for me, it took me to La it's like five years ago, or six years ago to a workshop by Simon Borg, Olivia, the Australian teacher. And he, he his concept is like, breathe less, stretch less, work less. Eat less. Well, that's a very hard thing for me. And move on your core. And so the practice is we did with him. He called his yoga synergy. A was first at first sight was like, What on earth are we doing to makes no sense? And after five session, I was I'm your biggest fan. Wow. And he he got the chemistry theology or breathing straight for me? So is that actually the the great is the kind of controversy is that the less you breathe, the more oxygen your cells get?

Todd McLaughlin: 20:19

It is a really interesting controversy. Ken, can you can you explain a little bit like breathing. So I love that I love that you said his philosophy is breathe less stretch less so because when you think in the Ashtanga practice, there's this, there's a ton more, more more, breathe harder fat, not necessarily faster, but you know, more vigorous breathing and more vigorous stretching. And so So then on that know, if, if, if I'm going to try to breathe less of my practice time, say would take an hour and an Ashtanga. I guess we could, in theory, count how many breaths breaths we are prescribed to do within a primary series. I've never tried to count how many breaths there would be. But I bet you, if we were working off the counting system, we could literally come up with a number of how many times we would breathe in and out. And so then the idea, then you're practicing yoga and then what not a strongest style yoga, vinyasa more of like, like less stretching, almost like if I was gonna do possum, Uttanasana or Western 10 stretch where I reach for my toes and do a forward bend over my legs. I just wouldn't try to go very deep, and just try to breathe really slow. Is that is that kind of the idea?

Magnus Appelberg: 21:36

Well, the the the idea is to kind of breathe less volume per minute. Gotcha. Because the concept behind this is called the Bohr effect. And that was discovered 1904. I mean, really long ago by Christiane Bohr, he could, he could show that for in order for the cell to get oxygen. So that means that the oxygen molecule has to jump from the haemoglobin molecule. And hemoglobin molecule is cleaning the oxygen molecule molecule with the force that this kind of in not straight line, but it's in its inverted relation to how much carbon dioxide rays in the blood present. So more, the more carbon dioxide present in the blood, the easier the oxygen level oxygen molecule jumps from the blood to the cell. So the higher carbon dioxide level you have in your blood, the more oxygen your cells get. And that is dependent on the volume of breaths per minute. The less you breathe, the less you ventilate out the carbon dioxide. So that's kind of the key element not to ventilate too much. Yes, so I take, I'm telling my my Ashtanga students that breed softly and according to the situation. So when you when you're standing, just still in some state, you do breathe so that you say you are aware of the sound of the breath. And make it easy, make it nice. And when you start moving. You you try to keep it soft and easy all the time, there will come situation where you will bring breathe very strongly, of course. But after that, when the situation comes down, you start you, you aim for very calm breath again. So you don't have to breed that D except in very exceptional situations.

Todd McLaughlin: 24:04

That's yeah, that's fascinating. Magnus, I already already can't wait to practice after the podcast today to start experimenting. So can you give me an example of when you say lower volume per minute, and then I read recently, excuse me, and the work that James Nestor did and his breath book, that the ideal would be about five to six breaths per minute. So about a five to six second duration of inhalation to about a five to six second duration of exhalation. When you're I

Magnus Appelberg: 24:44

have tried that too. So I put on a metronome every five seconds. I can tell you it's really, really a slow breath. It's

Todd McLaughlin: 24:54

a real slow breath. Yeah.

Magnus Appelberg: 24:56

So that's one solution. Why other solution is you To breathe as deeply as unique, not deeper. So you keep it in line. Yeah. So I think the key word here would be breathe life.

Todd McLaughlin: 25:12

Yeah, good point. And so that kind of that kind of debunks the idea of like, Let's breathe deeper, everybody, let's force air in and out of the body, to oxygenate, you know, this idea of like, we'll get more energy by. And it sounds like what you're learning is that it might not be that it's more

Magnus Appelberg: 25:36

very, very huge misunderstanding, or based on ignorance. Because when you say in, like Wim Hof saying that oxygenate by breathing deeper, and more and more, what you're oxygenating is your blood. That's true. But it's already oxygenated, because your your, your oxygen saturation can't exceed 100%. And it's, for most people around 9595 already. So what happens is, you are ventilating carbon dioxide away from from your lungs from your blood. And what happens then you are starting to your sales are starting to suffer suffer from hypoxia, too little oxygen, and then your head starts spinning, your head starts spinning because you get too much oxygen, it starts spinning because your brain doesn't get any oxygen, oxygen.

Todd McLaughlin: 26:43

It's fascinating. And I liked the fact that you had brought up that you've you know, practice and or experience different types of breathing, whether it be Holotropic, or transformational breath where there is this hyperventilation process and, you know, sometimes post because the feeling of that seems either you could call it euphoria, or it can also seem a little intense and uncomfortable. And that you almost like I've been there done that, like I've done that enough times, it seems like you have explored that but you're finding it do you do sometimes argue that or not argue but just converse and debate that? What is the actual value of that? Is it just the lack of oxygen? So of course, you're gonna feel a little bit kind of loopy. And what is the value of just creating loopiness? If if we think that the loopiness for lack of a better term, is is more just like a like, we feel fascinated by that. Because Wow, I've never felt that sensation before. But if you investigate it further, is it actually really great for us? Is it? Is it something that's really positive that has some sort of transformational effect? What it sounds to me is you Yeah, it's

Magnus Appelberg: 27:58

only what this hypoxia is only one part of that. And it stirs very strong emotions, the the very tough breathing is stirs very strong emotions. It can it can positively lead to catharsis, which is very often the aim, the goal. And it gives you a totally kind of new experience of your own body. And that's all positive things. So I never arguing with anybody or what is better, because I don't know, there's no such thing as one size fits all. And so when you when you talk talking about breathwork it's a very large concept. Yeah. Always take into consideration what is your goal? What are you aiming for? But the thing is that the terminology around it gets screwed up. But that's okay. Because if you know what you're doing, what you're aiming for, and you see it's coming. It's coming that way. It's all good. It's all good,

Todd McLaughlin: 29:16

nice.

Magnus Appelberg: 29:17

But for the last 20 years for me, it's been great. Because I'm an all or nothing guy most mostly I'm 63. So I cooling down a little bit now. So yes, do the how little can I do to get into a total state of stillness? Yes. So for me, the stillness of the mind the stillness of our whole mind being so to get even read of this terminology by body and mind, this kind of splitting yourself up into two and then you I think your soul now yeah. And spirit. Now you have many, many different parts of you. But it's still all about you. Who are you not differentiating into a different concept of me. But who are you? So get into this total state? Oh, I am? That's

Todd McLaughlin: 30:24

Yes. Well said Well said, you know, I'm curious you said with your practice in Vipassana and then just to be respectful of of hush and I don't want to, I know there's a certain element of you know, to learn the technique, you need to go for a 10 day set, you know, and that type of thing, but just to kind of bring up a couple of ideas here points that the process of on apana and observing respiration, and the idea of observe the respiration, and don't practice pranayama tried to observe respiration without control of respiration. And that's such an interesting place to go. What What have you found with that? And when you are practicing, save upasana? Do you try to stay in that realm during that designated practice time of I am not going to slow my breathing down? Or does have you been at this for so long? That just your natural breath? Now it is a deep slow a slow?

Magnus Appelberg: 31:29

My answer is yes and no. So you get these moments in the passion. When when you notice I'm hardly breathing. Wow, I'm all still my body disappears. And then you get attached to that idea, of course, which prevents you from returning. But this this thing about when the mind gets so still, that the body hardly use any oxygen, then that is the kind of stillness of your breath. But stillness of your breath can be induced by breathing less over extended time. So you get up that your carbon dioxide tolerance, higher or higher. So it's kind of the noble art of suffocating, that's a term which constantly boo boo, take us students, you're so good, take us a very pioneer in the breathing area. So he was all about breathing less. So so he's he, his, his students are talking about the Oh, noble art of suffocating. When when when you stand when when you can hold that for for some time, and regularly, and then turn to just watching your breath, you get very fast into the state, wow, I'm hardly breathing. Because your carbon dioxide tolerance is so high that your, your breath gets less triggered by it. So because the, the impulse to breathe is not from lack of oxygen, it's because of a surplus of carbon dioxide. So if you get used to higher carbon dioxide, so when you calm down, you really do calm down because you don't actually need to breathe much at all.

Todd McLaughlin: 33:33

That's so interesting. I remember coming across a story recently about a monk in Tibet, where, you know, the higher up the higher going higher and altitude. And the effect that altitude plays on oxygen, carbon dioxide ratio is in the blood. And the mind that it's that that there's the that's the reason they're going higher up into the mountains because you could see almost like there's like a slowing of the mind like just due to the fact that there this this carbon dioxide might build up I suppose. Which which made sense to me. All of a sudden, it kind of clicked for me like Oh, that makes perfect sense that that's why all these Yogi's were going high up into caves in the mountains because perhaps the thin oxygen up there was creating a state of euphoria. Have you Would you agree with that? Or have you experienced something similar going into the ice because that seems in a similar vein, like right when I think of Tibetans, and you hear about TUMO and being able to sit on ice and melt ice around the body with just breathing but it doesn't seem like to me you don't really want to melt anything you almost want to become ice it sounds like like you're not even you're not even looking to like do this really strong breathing thing to try to heat your body up it's almost like you're you're like really just becoming one with the ice in my in my getting it right. Am I seeing it right Under

Magnus Appelberg: 35:01

let's see about altitude. I have no personal experience. So I can't talk about that. But about this, this ice cold temperature. Let's see. It's a It's very tough on your physiology. And it's even tougher on your your, your mental side because you get all these scary thoughts that are oh my god, am I freezing my toes off? I'm not gonna die. So they all these every morning when I jump into the sea. Now it's six degrees. So you already feel a little bit of gasp already. When you're 60. Don't worry. Yeah, yeah. But it will turn into zero it will turn into zero. And that's the real deal. That's a real deal. So and the wind is coming from the sea very hard. So it's like, Oh, my God, why am I doing this? And so that's what my mind telling myself a story. So I Okay, that was a interesting story. And I keep walking, then the next story is like, somebody tells me, what about if you don't go today? Wow, that's a very interesting story. Also, let's see, what is this leading? Are you sure you don't have a cold? Yeah, I'm not quite sure. Well, nice try. So about about entering this very uncomfortable. So he is the conscious attempt to get comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. So that could kind of leak over into your whole life. Or uncomfortable situations in your life. You could take them a grain of salt. Okay, it's happening. What's the story in my mind? Well, that was an interesting story very much. Thank you. But what's the reality? Like in cold water? What's the reality? It's cold? Yeah, it's freezing. It feels unpleasant. Sorry, that was the interpretation that was a story called is the only reality and when so the the circumstances is so tough. It forces you to stay present. So he's like a turbo charge Vipassana.

Todd McLaughlin: 37:27

Wow. It makes sense. I can see that man. All right. Well, after speaking with you and Frank, I guess I have to come to Finland and give it a try. But because I'm in Florida now what is my next best option? I saw you have a course online that Yeah.

Magnus Appelberg: 37:52

Immediate cold water. You need cold shower? Or ice back yourself? But I'm not confident in the ice cold shower you have in in Florida. It's not cold. Suppose it doesn't go it's not cold. It's strange.

Todd McLaughlin: 38:13

It's not even close to call. For me it is but for you know, it'd be like a hot shower. So I so I get an ice bath is your philosophy or theory or instruction with students? To me? It sounds like you go in every day is that you do it every day. Even. Is that your ritual? That's it. Yeah.

Magnus Appelberg: 38:32

It's like doing a yoga practice. Yeah. Except I don't take days off.

Todd McLaughlin: 38:39

You don't take any days off on the cold? Oh,

Magnus Appelberg: 38:43

yes. Every opportunity

Todd McLaughlin: 38:50

but in the cold I mean, Magnus this is just amazing. I mean, I I love I love getting a chance to hear this because I think you know, just based on my own experience, I just thought that just it sounds so challenged by I understand you're in the environment. And so it's it's part of you and and it's not so extreme because you're living you're just living life so but it just it just sounds so amazing. So fantastic. Like child like such an incredible challenge. It's amazing. I mean, so I'm just trying to even envision Finland in the middle of winter not a lot of sunshine. I don't know how many hours of of Sun sunlight comes out. What What's the like?

Magnus Appelberg: 39:33

Well, in the south, we have daylight during Christmas like six hours, six hours. But in the north of Finland no daylight at all. Although you go the longer so nine and

Todd McLaughlin: 39:47

you're in the South because you're on the Palazzo Yeah. And and you're you're walking out and you're waiting for that daylight time or you don't even care you go in the pitch black dark. I mean what Where do you draw the line? Where do you actually go? While it's dark and still jumping the ice as well?

Magnus Appelberg: 40:07

I do. If I if I wake up before the day light? Yeah. And I aim for first doing my cold swim, and then doing some warm up, warm up exercises. And then I'm having my coffee. So well before the call. Yeah, before the

Todd McLaughlin: 40:29

coffee, the coffee is there, maybe the reward at the end of the end of the session, and then the warm and the warm fire in the warm fire. And then I'm curious. So then just to kind of continue on with your day, then at this point, you mentioned a stronger indoor yoga practice and the Pawson a meditation which probably if you're a dedicated Vipassana practitioner, you're meditating twice a day for an hour each time are, you know, I'm

Magnus Appelberg: 40:57

flexing the concept. I'm flexing the concept of Ashtanga and flexing the concept of Vipassana I'm flexing everything.

Todd McLaughlin: 41:05

I love it, can you can you tell me just in relation to your strong in Vipassana? How are those two worlds meeting for you now? Because if, if you have this open minded approach of, okay, there's these structures. But now what's going to work for me? What what are you finding when you are blending these two together because that personally, I found when I got a chance to go to Vipassana, it really put the icing on top of the cake. For me, I feel like before that I had the cake. I was loving my yoga practice. And I was reading, you know, philosophy, yoga philosophy. And then when I went to the person, I felt like, Ooh, I think I think I got a glimpse into what this philosophy was talking about and what I might be attempting to do. And I really had this strong feeling that if I didn't do have a passion, I would have never had this opportunity to really understand what the this deeper layer of the yoga holds for us. And so I'm saying, Yeah, that's cool. Can you tell me a little bit about what what sort of incense

Magnus Appelberg: 42:11

for me I when I start practicing, so actually, the more morning, getting ice cold is just something that happens, I don't even consider it practice. I start with I start on the more subtle go into the stronger one. So I start with the persona. And the before I got this epiphany about about carbon dioxide. I always start in the more subtle than the Pasha and then perineum. And then Ashtanga practice. But nowadays, it's like starting with breath control. So breathing less, I'm doing Khumba on exhalation as much as possible. So I really get this. To cultivate this air hunger, you know, the sense of you have to breathe more, but then you're not allowing yourself so you could be let's call it air hunger. So cultivating air hunger for 20 minutes, and then letting that go. And going into scanning the body like in Vipassana and noticing what happened. And that's a very wonderful terminal. So I find that you could actually learn to meditate in a much easier way than it's taught in the Vipassana concept by by taking the concept of breath by breathing less understanding carbon dioxide, understanding the autonomic nervous system. So I have a concept like like, breath the, the portal for to meditation. So let's see how that works out.

Todd McLaughlin: 44:09

Yes. Oh, these are great ideas. I do like the fact that you're mapping out a specific start with their hunger. Yeah, do the body scan meditation. And then

Magnus Appelberg: 44:27

and then you can do a few sips musical practice. Yeah, start back with the sensor locations and see how far that takes you. The only concept I have see how far this takes?

Todd McLaughlin: 44:41

Yeah, no main agenda. I'm going to do first and second and third series all in one session. Somebody out there doing it or there's somebody out there doing I'm sure. Yeah, I love that theory. I keep you know we have a I Have a Mysore program or Mysore style Ashtanga program here, and I am trying to constantly get that point across right in the beginning that if we just do sun salutations that's a complete practice and you can come in you can come in you can just do some citations because I remember my mind getting so trapped in that like, I have to do the whole primary like there's no question I just have to do it. There's just there's no way around

Magnus Appelberg: 45:34

it was so kind of dedicated,

Todd McLaughlin: 45:39

dedicated, good way to say it. Yeah, yes.

Magnus Appelberg: 45:42

I was pretty stiff. So I'm being coupled Asana was always my horror. And but but strong. So my teacher Lena Mila always told his assistants that practice on Magnus the adjustments, you can't break him safe the practices Magnus, you can't break.

Todd McLaughlin: 46:09

You had two peoples on your uncoupled tasks and one person pulling your hips forward from the front. And another one trying to push your hands to your, your feet from the from your from the other side.

Magnus Appelberg: 46:20

That was my first that was my first cup of customer experience. It was Lena was pulling my hips forward his wife at that moment that Tina was pushing my hands to deal very touched my toes. I was like, wow, this is really your

Unknown: 46:39

this is the real deal.

Todd McLaughlin: 46:42

Yeah, talk about thinking like, you know, your your, you know, these experiences all seem like horizontal in similarity that you're saying, Okay, I'm in the ice, are my toes going to fall off? Am I going to die? Your incompetence and adjustment is my back in a snap in my ego am I going to survive. And so there's these in the posture. Interestingly enough, you know, if if you go for a real long set, I remember one time I because the early morning sets, or like in the afternoon where you get those like you would do like hour and a half and then you have a little break and you get like another hour and a half where you get this three hour stretch. And I remember standing by sorry, that said I'm going to sit for three hours and I'm not going to move. I'm just not going to move I'm going to do I'm going to stay and I did actually hang in there for three hours didn't. And I thought I was going to I thought I was gonna die. Like I really I thought I was going to die. I'm just sitting here. I'm not going to tie but so it's incredible because in all of these disciplines, they can get taken to such an incredible level of like you said acclimation? Obviously, there's an acclamation period. I mean, if someone on day one comes into my store, and you say, Okay, let's go straight to cop Uttanasana. You know, it could be, it could be really dangerous. I'm just, it could be it could be there could be harm there. You know what I mean? Like so I guess that's my next question is How have you danced that line with loving yourself are loving, therapeutic and taking care of yourself, but also getting a little close to the edge, I'm sure you've gotten a little close to the edge and the ice element sounds like you had to have gotten close to the edge, especially on that one hour sit from 45 minutes, like to an hour, a 15 minute increase. Like when we look at the way the free divers build up that little bit further depth a little bit further depth. I mean, it's dangerous to all of a sudden to say I'm gonna go three more meters, you know, in to us, it doesn't sound like much, but that's a lot. So I guess, um, what have you learned in this process of exploring edges and maintenance of of self care?

Magnus Appelberg: 49:03

Okay, in the area of cold exposure, what I learned because I'm my own guinea pig. So I try to do, or I did try to do kind of find all the mistakes you can do and report back and say don't do this. So the thing is that the only thing you should really try to avoid is hypothermia. And but hypothermia comes in different levels. So the first stage of hypothermia is when you start shivering. It's not dangerous, and it's even very stimulating for for your fat burn, but it's activates brown fat even more effective and what it means is your core temperature, it gets down to 35 degrees Celsius and that's okay. A but but the thing is, if you if you start shivering in the ice cold water, and you are in the winter, when you coming out from that, you're still getting chilled down. And okay, and then you get get up into the house, there is room temperature, when you have a core temperature that this is okay. And you feel okay, slight shivering doesn't matter, you think you survived. But the thing is, you have this layer of ice cold blood really close to your skin, so it's good. So you have two different temperatures, you have your surface temperature, you have your core temperature, and they start equalizing. And if they equalize too fast, and you are not trying active to raise your core temperature, your core temperature will drop significantly. And that feels terrible. But you're rude to start shivering. And, but that's also if you're healthy person, it's okay. It's okay. But it's very unpleasant. And it's all kind of perception. So I did this major mistake ones that I came from a very long session in the cold came in from the winter cold, it went straight into a hot shower. And the sensation of that was like somebody took their fist and hit my heart. So I had to get down on all fours. Because it was it was really took all the juice out of me. And it was kind of a shivering mess of a mess of a person for five minutes. But I also heard from from a different person, they have a bad experience for 20 minutes, because before they could get up well. But then you have the other other side of it. After a couple of years of that, for example, after my one hour session in the ice bath, I got straight into the cold shower, either in the hot shower, and it didn't work my situation at all. Because at that point, we'll also adapted to this situation. So he actually you can adapt to anything. But that's really hard core. It's really hard. And then and then if you have How do you perceive it kind of what's your interpretation when you start shivering? Like like a mad and you can't say your straight word. And your your brains go? Like, like, click? What what what is that? Do you make anything out of it? Is this a bad thing? Or is this a neutral thing is a good thing. So if you can stay kind of curious. And hey, what's going on then? So Right? For example, visa free diver, Johanna note blood. We discussed, discussed hypothetical. Yeah. And I said, Well, I was once half an hour in a kind of really strongly shivering state as well. I won't folk about myself photographing under the water too long in the winter. And I shivered for four hours afterwards. But what's like, You're crazy. And you know, her only comment was, it was so interesting.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:40

Which is curious and open to, to just observing. That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah.

Magnus Appelberg: 53:47

Not not making anything not making stories out of it not attaching or not versions, nothing is like this happens. How interesting.

Todd McLaughlin: 54:00

So I mean, do you think so if you hadn't come across deep meditation practices like Vipassana? Do you feel like you would have these experiences would have brought you to that place? Sandor taught you that without needing to receive instruction from the Apostle, or do you feel like the apostle instruction has given you further understanding, so then it's a little maybe you can trust yourself a little more when you get into that space of wondering, oh, is this how can I actually push too far then? Wait, that's right. My training is just observed.

Magnus Appelberg: 54:39

The thing is, I've done this all by myself with no structures. So then there'll be person teachings. Were kind of my instructor. Yeah. So I imagine if you don't have the deeper center background, but you have a good instructor who's telling you To know what to do, and what not to do, and how to take it step by step and how how does your, your the physiology of your breath really work? What's the blood circulation thing? It's like when you breathe less, you have more carbon dioxide and that deletes your, your blood vessels, which is the opposite of what the cold water does. So then you get less pain in your fingers and the toes because the blood is still circulating. Yes. Oh,

Todd McLaughlin: 55:31

man, Magnus, I've been learning so much. I feel like the way you're explaining it. I'm starting to understand like the way you kind of mentioned the core temperature, and a cold layer of blood on the surface. I've never visualized that before. But it's starting to make really good sense how it actually how the physiology responds to the environment. It is so fascinating. So I saw a picture on Instagram, where you it looks like you were teaching some type of class. And there's a there's people and read that they must be dry suits. I guess I'm guessing they're dry suits. And there's like about 10 people in red dry suits. And you're, you're in a Speedo, like just skin in it. And they're all in lotus. Yeah, I think you have your legs and Lotus and your arms above your head and your dislike floating. What was going on there? Because I saw the Instagram luckily translate from Finnish over into English. When I went to your website, I was trying to find a way because I want to direct everybody to your information. But just to let them know. Is there a way to read your website in English? I saw you have a blog in English. So I was able to get some information. Yeah, it's

Magnus Appelberg: 56:46

experimenting in writing English because I'm right now I'm writing either Swedish or Finnish. Yeah.

Unknown: 56:57

Amazing. So

Magnus Appelberg: 56:59

my first language finished is my second and English. My third. Gotcha. And I'm also fluent in German. Well

Todd McLaughlin: 57:09

done. I mean, you're living your English is incredible. Yeah.

Magnus Appelberg: 57:12

How do you in French and Spanish?

Todd McLaughlin: 57:15

Wow. You know, that's what just I love about Europe. I'm just, every time I've gotten a chance to go to Europe, and I'll meet these kids that are like five years old speaking for languages. And here in the States. I, you know, I was encouraged to maybe try to learn another language, but it's just a different vibe. You know, I love that about Europe that there's Yes, you are gonna learn language or it's not I don't know, it's just a whole different mentality around it. And exposure, I suppose obviously has a big heart but still for you to traverse that many different languages. That's incredible, Magnus. I mean, impressive. So you is that is that UTI? No, yeah, it's just life. Are you? Are you? Are you I'm teaching a course with that. Like if I come to Finland, and I come take a course. Are you going to put me in a dry suit first? No, I'm happy about that fleece. What is going on there? Yeah.

Magnus Appelberg: 58:09

Yeah, what's going on there. They say I'm doing cooperation with adventure company, who takes the customers out in the archipelago. We don't these survival suit suits, make, make them float around just to enjoy it. And then then I jump in. And I start swimming in my only swim suit around them and do a kind of guided relaxation for them. And then they slowly start wondering, what is this guy doing? What is going on? And then that's just to spice it up. And when they get back on the dry, the leader of the expedition late, he's telling them about the dangers of hypothermia. And they are Wow. And then he ends his 15 minute speech, but this obviously doesn't apply for magnum opus. And then I do a 15 minutes pitch, adaptation and physiology. And they get the experience like kind of firsthand experience of wow, this is a large planet. This

Todd McLaughlin: 59:23

is a large planet. I love it. That is so awesome. Magnet. That's so classic. There's another really beautiful video that you posted in my opinion of an ice hole with several women in the in the in the water to kind of hanging on to the edge of the ice, and they're singing and they're singing the song and I'm guessing that's finished right

Unknown: 59:50

that's it's beta. They are singing it in Swedish Swedish and

Magnus Appelberg: 59:56

it's from a very famous Film and Music is by a very famous Finnish composer. Very beautiful words. See, it's from a film about storms. Yes, my guy about the family living very far out in the archipelago living from fishing. I made like fishing like 100 years ago. It made it was made. It was a novel. And it was made into a very famous TV series. And it's going to be a very soon a new film again. So it's this. This melody you heard, everything recognizes it. Wow. And these were ladies who were so dedicated. They were they were winter swimmers from before, but they want a new level of it. As you'll see, they got it. They

Todd McLaughlin: 1:00:56

got it. And yeah, I could. Yeah, there's something I guess. What's amazing about song and a group singing together is that even though they're being going through this really intense, rigorous ice bath, that somehow the song just gave them some power to communicate something it's a really amazing it was touching. I watched it a couple of times. I was like wow, it was really beautiful that that was so I do highly recommend everybody listening please check out your Instagram page. Which is helped me out Magnus remind me I slept method I slept method. Thank you. Wow, this has been such a treat Magnus I just am so thankful for you opening up time out of your day to share a little bit of your life and and what what your days exist. What your days are like, is there anything? Is there anything you can add or something that I might have missed? That that you'd like to share? Is there any other you know something I love about podcasting the opportunity to speak with people all over the world also your generosity. Obviously we had an introduction through Frank but your your openness and willingness to communicate and come on the show and, and do this. I really appreciate that. I just find that fascinating that you all are so eager and keen. Because I love doing this. I've learned so much I think to actually speak with people on the ground in the water in the ice water to actually hear like what this is what is going on here because it's such a very it's very popular right now. Right? Like I saw a comedian on Instagram recently say, basically Alright, everybody I know your ice bath thing. We know you took an ice bath today, it seems like it's huge. In the plaza where our yoga studio is there's a cryotherapy center. There's there's places all around where people can ice bathe, can you can you just touch a little bit upon I remember listening to somebody say that he was struggling with depression, mental health issues and that his ice bath the day has helped him to regulate that without needing medication. I'm curious what has been your thought What have you found in relation to mental health and the positive effects that

Magnus Appelberg: 1:03:19

it has the eyes but has kind of physiological hormonal effect also, which is it's a huge booster in dopamine. And dopamine is the hormone or anticipation and motivation. So it's actually something that gets you really go in. So it's a huge elevator of that hormone. And in opposite to social media where every dopamine peak gets your baseline don't lower this doesn't. So it gets your gifts your peak of like magnitude of cocaine kind of and which loss and doesn't get down your baseline. That's one thing on the mental side. But what I find is the most important thing is like, let's see, when you get into the code, the official of your reaction that hyperventilation Your blood pressure is the same as when you you're afraid when you really get scared. It's the same reaction. But you are in a safe space. So you can get back into a very calm state, if you know how to breathe, if you prepare yourself, and then try to stay there. And every time you do it, it's kind of you're changing your unconscious behavior, just a little bit and a little bit. So like every fear based emotion gets easier. And AXA anxiety is fear based. And why I talk a bit about it with this with a psychotherapists, and they are kind of this totally correct interpretation situation, you so you, you get your you get a bit kind of more normal. By doing this, you get rid of fear based emotions. And for me when I started doing this very strongly, I got so much more liberated talking, talking in front of a group teaching new groups like I stopped planning, because I knew I know if I know my stuff, why, why not just go in front of them and open your mouth and see what comes out? Whoa, this is exciting. So, in a positive way, I got totally reckless. And I say that, yeah. So, so. So one way to really help was like, more than two years ago, when, during the pandemic, when the restrictions got too tough for our yoga studio, which we had been running for eight and a half year. Wow. So we had to close it down. And we so we, we moved out to the city into our summer cottage, where are we living still, this is debt free, there'll be no cost except electricity for this. So when you when you really cut all costs, you can live on very, very little. There. It's so interesting. I do only gigs now. I do we can course this workshops. And I it's such a different way of living from from being teaching almost every morning for 20 years. I don't do that anymore. Yeah. But how to kind of switch to that, after the initiating grief or letting go of your life work. It was like, wow, this is so interesting. And it is still interesting. Yes.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:07:22

I'm so happy. You just said that Magnus, because I've been thinking about that a lot lately, is very similar in relation to my wife. And I've had this studio for the last 17 years. And we made it through the pandemic. And we've been teaching every day. Hi, no. And but it was very challenging. And now there's still so many challenges. And I often wonder like, what, what, what am I going to do? And I love here. I love hearing that you've you had that same challenge. And you let me because I love my I love this so much that I feel I would have grief at loss of it, which I know is just a human thing. But when you do something for so long, I just don't want it to change. I love this so much. Right. So I've been hearing what you said it gives me a lot of hope because you're having just as much fun, if not more. You've been able to transition. I don't know. Thank you. Yeah. That's cool. That's so cool. One last question or one last thought. I my first yoga my first hatha yoga world experience was practicing with Bikram Choudhury in Los Angeles, California, taking Bikram yoga teacher training back in 2000. And harder than you can ever imagine, hotter than hot. He tried to kill us, I think much with a similar idea. Extremes How are you going to how are you going to handle it? How so? But then you get this culture of mentality of like, I can only do yoga, if it's 115 degrees. If I go into the room and it's 105 it's not hot enough. I'm mad and people get upset and I turn the heaters up higher. It's just not hot enough. Which is an interesting kind of insanity. Because when you're you know, I saw a picture of you down dog and on the ice practicing down dog on the ice. And you're just debunking that whole theory. No, it does not need to be hot to do yoga. i You i actually think you could do you yoga was better in the cold are just as good. And this whole idea of like you need to hear you're like you're wobbling your Hello like well, I don't know. But um, you know, thoughts on that like, I guess control we want to control and we we have preference. is and so we think I have to have the environment controlled so that I can do what I need to do. What is your experience with just practicing in whatever environment there is and then your experience with practicing on ice?

Magnus Appelberg: 1:10:15

Yeah. i No. Practice. Actually, actually, sometimes during the winter, when it when it's not too windy, I come up from the ice bath, and I start doing yoga, on the terrace in mindless degrees. still wet naked. And I continue that the till and dry. But that's just out of curiosity. The it's like the question, Can you can you really do it? Is it possible? Yeah. Is it possible? Should you do it this way every day? I don't think so. I think I think you come to a place somewhere, sometimes in life when you're just curious. So can I do it in this way? Or can they do it in that way? Yeah. And that's like, what keeps me going? Really? Yeah. And this about? Should it be hot or cold? does matter. The heat comes from inside you really have to get get that one to get sweaty? Even if it's cold. If you're go, yeah, yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:11:39

Well said, Magnus. Oh, man. Well, thank you so much. This has been an amazing hour, and even a little beyond. I can't wait to publish this. I, my my dad and sister used to fly to Canada to go ice bath. So I'm thinking and my daughter, she loves the cold. Last time we were in the snow. She was running around barefoot in the snow. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you were you. We gotta get you over to Scandinavia, like, you're gonna have to live somewhere much colder if she's always so hot in Florida and her face is all red. And I'm like, she's gonna have to live somewhere cold, so I gotta get her over to Finland. I think that'd be a really fun family trip. So I hope to have a chance to meet you, Magnus. This has been a real treat. Thank you so much.

Magnus Appelberg: 1:12:22

Thank you. It's really been a treat for me to talk to somebody on the other side of the globe. And this is amazing. I'm sitting here, isolated on an island together with my wife. There's nobody else here. Somebody in Florida.

Unknown: 1:12:42

Thank you. Thank you, Magnus.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:12:45

I'll see you soon. Native yoga taught cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com. And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time