Frank Kappas - Embracing Vulnerability and Connection in Yoga

Frank Kappas is an Ashtanga Yoga teacher based in Finland. He has been practicing yoga since 1996 and has studied with renowned teachers such as Petri Räisänen and Lino Miele. Frank is also interested in other modalities such as Vipassana meditation and bodywork, which he incorporates into his teaching and practice.

Visit Frank on his website https://www.frankkappas.fi/
Follow Frank on IG @frank.kappas.ashtanga.yoga https://www.instagram.com/frank.kappas.ashtanga.yoga/

Key takeaways:

• Finding a structure in yoga practice can be helpful, but it's important to also create your own internal structure.
• Vipassana meditation can provide valuable insights into the mind and body, but it can be challenging to apply those insights in everyday life.
• Being present and connecting with oneself and others is a continuous practice that requires self-awareness and vulnerability.
• Taking care of oneself is essential when taking care of others, especially as a parent.
• Stiffness and strength can be beneficial in yoga practice and can help prevent injuries.

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Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Hello, hello. Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. If it's your first time listening, so happy you're here. Welcome to the show. For those of you that are repeat listeners, your support is so greatly appreciated. This week, I'm delighted to bring Frank Kappas to the podcast. Frank is a Ashtanga Yoga teacher in Finland. And he was kind enough to join me here. You can find Frank on his website, which is www.Frankkappas.fi, and his instagram handle is at@Frank.Kappas.ashtanga.yoga. And one thing I really loved about Frank and think is cool about Frank is that when I asked him, you know, before the show, I'll ask the guests like, where would you like me to direct the listeners to and I said, I found your website, I found your Instagram. And he said, you know, to be really honest, I don't even think I've looked at my homepage on my website for like a few years. And he's like social media, I just don't really do it. And you know, I really respect that. I appreciate that about teachers that, you know, there's so many different ways to go about teaching and practicing yoga, and every way works, you know, whichever way we find that works for us, that's the best way to go. So with that being said, I did appreciate and do appreciate that about Frank, but go ahead and send him some love. If you're on Instagram, go ahead and follow him. And you can go check out his website, you can see Frank, you can also if you're listening, you want to watch Frank, you can check us out on our YouTube channel, which is Native Yoga Center. If you can subscribe and make a comment. I love it. Thank you so much, we have a couple of ways that you can support the channel, you'll see a link below that will say support the channel. And there's like a donation option anywhere between three and $10 a month. And I also have a PayPal link. If anyone wants to make a donation, it's much appreciated. This is a labor of love. And it's mostly my goal here is to really just communicate with other teachers share ideas around so that we can all grow from each other's mistakes as well as from our achievements. And I really enjoyed this conversation with Frank, I feel like I had a great connection. And I really want to go to Finland. I've been wanting to go to Finland and this this really seals the deal for me. I really want to go on practice with him. Also, for those of you listening, if you have not listened to the recent episode with Tim Feldmann, or with Lotta Sebzda, please check those ones out. Because I have met Frank through Lotta. And then when I was talking with Tim on the most recent podcast, he has mentioned Frank's name and I was so excited because I have this date set to speak with him. So I guess another element that I'm finding is that there's all these little connections within the subgroups of the practice and the way that each of us kind of respect and appreciate one another and kind of lift each other up is so inspiring to me and I hope you feel that and you get something of that nature from the show. Thank you so much and let's just go ahead and start. Alright, here we go. I'm really happy to have the opportunity to meet and speak speak with Frank Kappas. Frank, thank you so much for joining me today. And you're in Finland. Can you tell me what the weather is like for you today?

Frank Kappas: 4:37

Okay, should I show it we know is a little bit rainy.

Todd McLaughlin: 4:44

Haha,

Frank Kappas: 4:45

it was right okay. That's the normal autumn weather here. It's

Todd McLaughlin: 4:51

yeah, yeah. What time is it start getting dark there.

Frank Kappas: 4:56

Maybe about seven o'clock in finish time. Yes,

Todd McLaughlin: 5:00

yeah. Nice. I've never been I've heard amazing things. I was reading up a little bit on Helsinki about how, how great the architecture is and the social structure and what it's a great place for families to move to. And are you born and raised in Finland?

Frank Kappas: 5:23

I am I'm born in North of Ireland. My father comes actually from East Germany from where is now a colony brought in Russia outside. My father is like, Chairman. Yeah, nice. That's why I've labored trains name is not like a finished name.

Todd McLaughlin: 5:43

Uh huh. Gotcha. Yes. Gotcha. And what town are you in? Excuse me. What town Do you live in?

Frank Kappas: 5:52

I live now in Klamath Falls, but I come from north of Finland. Yes.

Todd McLaughlin: 5:57

Gotcha. And are you are an Ashtanga Yoga teacher?

Frank Kappas: 6:03

Yes, I have done that for fun for I was I used to be like artists but then I was like changing this because it was more fun for me. I don't know I'm still that way but quite relaxed way.

Todd McLaughlin: 6:21

Nice. I understand. What type of art were you what type of artists were you prior to going into the world of astanga yoga.

Frank Kappas: 6:31

Before that? What takes you Excuse me?

Todd McLaughlin: 6:34

What type of art did you make like oil paintings and or sculpture? Oh,

Frank Kappas: 6:39

no, I was I was studying with sculpturing things but I was doing like modern art and I get quite success that time I was about 10 years like, like doing art. Wow. If just 10 I was thinking it's so much more nicer to work with yoga and these things in contrast, I didn't stop somehow but yeah, it was a nice time in my life and this is in very good time.

Todd McLaughlin: 7:04

Very cool. How did you or when did you first practice yoga?

Frank Kappas: 7:12

I think it was 1996 Seven somewhere there. I think it was actually I don't know how interesting about here my history but anyway I can do it shortly. I don't know it's important but anyway it's I went one show it was actually Petri rice and is asking yoga teacher and finish who is quite famous in the world. Yes, I went just look for his like, like show that when they and after that it was okay. I will I was going like a few times but actually the first real step in Astana made for me was in Seoul hog about I don't know what the year was 1998 Maybe there was polynomial at his Italian teacher there in that time. Yeah, and if I show up I tried to make it it was for me because I was not doing art I was like this artist lifestyle I was really nice to go by like a retreat where I couldn't be myself I was just nobody Yeah, I was together with some things was I don't know anything and I think that's very like a good good way to go somewhere. And then I was thinking all these things we did it was our really stiff we did the practice then we have some pranayama and mostly this like group together the people together hanging around I just remember when I went out of there indirectly a little bit earlier because I have some work or something. And I just feel this gratitude feeling that I was like crying when I went away because I was getting something but I didn't like thinking to be existing something like like this great fall that you can pay maybe like present in yourself or some I don't know how you explain that. Yes. And I don't have had any hesitation about astanga yoga towards I have not have this time that either is it good or bad? I have always think it's good. Yeah. Somehow, shortly.

Todd McLaughlin: 9:36

I love hearing that. I love Yeah. Because that reminds me of how I felt when I first started practicing a stronger to that just full on passion and excitement for it and can't wait to show up the next day. So it's great to it's great to hear that Yeah, how that you had a similar experience?

Frank Kappas: 10:04

I just wondering for that I have not like repairing myself this guy, I cannot actually repair anything myself, like these kinds of things. But I would not. I'm literally scared that I start this tale about like a Yorker story about my Yorker story like a good way like only the positive things and this thing, and I tried to be honest, even it's very hard to be like warm or pull and honest, but I tried to. Anyway, I had my goal in this interview, I tried to say something like real also.

Todd McLaughlin: 10:36

Yeah, great point. Frank. I hear ya I hear it's not just rainbows and unicorns every single day. There's there's some there's there's some flames involved as well. A little bit of fire some Well, on that note, what have you come across lately that has challenged you. In a yoga, yeah, yoga and or even just the your experience of teaching?

Frank Kappas: 11:05

Okay, I think I have to make some different parties. If I start with I think the mice are eating is one my like loving things, what's allowed the most. One thing is my own practice. And I think for me, fifth lien on me are very good in the beginning, because I was hanging with him, maybe eight years, I was every year in India, teaching with him, and lately practicing with him. And then was also cuando, Nahoon, some New Zealand woman who was there very close to me. And I was thinking it was for my life, like, looking like back forth. It was I was really needing this kind of outdoor ithet who say that, okay, it's five and a half times nothing else like this. These days. I need somehow like, structure. Yeah. And I get really like, there was no questions that I remember I asked sometimes someone asked Lee know that. But could you practice three times a week? He's a good question. I don't know, if this is five and a half time, he didn't give any chance. Something like, these things might change. I think it was very good for me to line up. And then I was I was quite young, not so young. I was like, maybe close to 30 years or something. I'm 56 or seven. I was thinking I need really the structure. And I was I think that was more key. I didn't think anything about practicing. I wasn't like combative, this that I want to get somewhere. I just have this, that just do the practice. And no theory nothing. And just an added that's fit for me really good in that time. Yeah, but maybe the state when he stopped it was when I get on family, and all these things, then I start to, I start to look a little bit different. And also, I think if I want to say some real thing, it was that I feel that when I feel very powerful, and I could do many things. And I get somehow, like feel that no one can hurt me. I'm really like strong. And if someone come with a problem, it's just flowing away from me. It's like, I feel that it was somehow like, I somehow like more myself now then I feel that I'm more like, can we be weak and vulnerable? And, and I'm not. I can I can use the yoke or like going towards me. Away from me. And I'm more I think I like this attitude around. That is more open? Yes. Is being planted I really and that I think that has changed when I get the family and and all this stuff. But that's that's one thing what I can call on whatever way but but that may be the first thing. And maybe, maybe I don't know if I want to maybe the next if I want to say my in the next what is the biggest bet actually, was that? I was asking Ninomiya when I was practicing with him 2000 That hour I can study in yoga and I would like to go some study and do because I didn't have any responses for anything I want just to do yoga, and he just say that okay, but to go to Vipassana. That's good. Oh, yeah. Then I went to Thailand, first time in Vipassana meditation. And that was my like turning point. I've somehow seem like, lately that I have some great two credit cards in my pocket. One is aspirin. One is Vipassana, and that always when I use that I get some credit there. Yeah. And it's the Vipassana has a skating in my life. Be in my life like I go usually once a year. Yeah, attend this retreat somehow and trying to go more. But maybe the family responsibilities are a little bit I'm really stuck or difficult that. But anyway, in that change this I, I really feel that I understand something about my mind and body and test these things, and also how difficult how easy is to get like karma, like mine in this kind of laboratory or circumstance where you don't speak and you have this special circumstance, how difficult or how different it is input into normal life and you have all responsibility, you are tired you're tasting. And that I think it's very interesting. One thing, what I feel that what is the hardest, really the hard part to have like, good normal size somehow?

Todd McLaughlin: 15:54

Yes. Great answers. Frank. And I agree with you, I had a similar experience. When I went to the pop my first full passion retreat, I was feeling like, I had understood the asana world. And I'd always wondered about the deeper layers of dharana Dhyana Samadhi, or the meditation element, and I had a feeling at my first passion I retreat, although is extremely difficult. And I was challenged beyond measure. I thought, Oh, this is what they're talking about. This is what you know, just a brief glimpse of that. And, and I can agree with you too. I have family and children. And when my second child came, that was the last time that I got a chance to go home. Because my wife was like, No way you're not taking off for another 10 days, no telephone, no way to communicate and leaving me here with the kids and the business and everything. So I understand what you're saying. And I also agree, and I really appreciate that you are bringing to light the humanity of that transition from feeling like Superman to appreciating feeling weak, tired, human, maybe some frailty. So I really love that you brought that up. I'm so happy to hear this. Keep going.

Frank Kappas: 17:34

Okay, okay, no, not only talk but I think there's American speaker or scientific woman or sorry my English is not so perfect, but have you heard good Brene Brown

Todd McLaughlin: 17:46

Brene Brown? I love Brene Brown?

Frank Kappas: 17:48

Yes. I think she has this one book I was pleased to announce his talks with this that when you you should keep your vulnerable and how important how big Frank is that you could keep it up and that you are not making it all the time you're like safe and these things and I think that was very nice. I was just reading that pool I really recommend this I think there's something about this society and all of these things that how difficult is to be open and that you take the risk that you someone hurts you and these things and I think there's a really like this big thing she speak about Yes What does that have one other thing i Please i don't have so many spoke but I have to say when we speak about the one we talk about there was one book in in maybe I'm wrong I think it was the name it was this month from Swedish monk. I think it was I watched it Wait a minute it was it was the long name it's a beer naughty called Linda plot I don't know maybe you don't know it's a Swedish but anyway, I I tell the story very quickly. He was going to he was sorry, Mike I had

Todd McLaughlin: 19:08

no problem totally fine. Every now and again my computer make some noises

Frank Kappas: 19:14

without close but it connected all the material.

Todd McLaughlin: 19:17

Okay. It's Frank.

Frank Kappas: 19:20

Enough long it's okay. But anyway, I think I like very much about he was going to test this month for the forest monk for 17 years. And he was all this recall he went there and meditate and be alone the years and all these things stuff. And and then when he came back to Sweden after 17 years to be like monk, and when he comes to stock or I think he cake what is stock I think anyway, he came back and then he said that he really understand that one day or was closed when he wasn't there and he was supporting this sit like this like, be monk, that way that you are this, you are in the forest alone and you do these things. But when he started to be installed only he was two years, isolated Ribbit outside of stock or no one call him he feels like depressed. And during these two years, he said that first time, he understand that, how he could use all these skills, what he has done in this 17 years to real life. Yes, that's how he could really use that with his own depression and these things that he come out with that and that was the real thing. What makes him like a better people that all these 40 are studying, it comes through in when you are in the storm. It means like all these like a V person, I have these things. And I think also some people who are training very like discipline in yoga, and all kinds of all the time schedule, the pranayama meditation for yoga like this is honest, that I think some can't be this problem that they create, like a laboratory that they are avoiding the uncle stubble and the weakness of themself and they want to make like this, that they keep somehow the control for themselves. And that I was thinking one important thing anyway that I don't I never think that when you do the yoga practice that it always that it's going through that you are really going through to learn how you say own truth, or you see in yourself the area and reality as it is and so on that I think is always like a gloomy band that sometimes you go inside somewhere you use the yoke or somehow like avoiding the things or threats in somehow that you get the distance something that is not black and white. And I think that's idea it's very much about yoga is a practice that, that, that that as well as some people can use that like a controlling 10 self or let's say avoiding themselves. The same people using that also to connect with themselves is not that some people is doing that. And someday when I think the other people is doing both of this. Yes, he's with yoga. And I think that's, that's a very interesting in in yoga, that that maybe some people could need really much more therapy as what kind of help them much more deep into some, some yoga track. Or maybe it's doing something totally different and then come back or I have seen inmate many of my students that they have, like someone has gone very deep into pranayama. Some was going back this way personal things. And someone is going into mantra someone's a yoga philosophy and I think is so great that the people are going creating what feeds them. The build up them like yes, all you have to be some process, but you are like, alert and you get like motivated. Yes, yes. And for myself, I think I have actually, I have only one thing, what I've really fascinated is this are used in with yoga. And that's so strange. Because when I first time I used to yoga like 25 years ago, I was thinking one day when this feels boring, I never do that. It cannot be I just do as long as good is nice and interesting. And that is something what I feel that, that if you think about if I think that I have been identified as having a micro classes in turmoil in nearly every morning, even as live in Sweden or in Finland, and I have also having like, I don't want to say that I'm so good. But I just said I have had maybe 700 threats threats or, or workshops, mostly in the same yoga school like 2025 around here. And and I cannot understand I don't know anything about real yoga philosophy. I don't do so much some Pranayamas I do some Vipassana meditation. I don't know actually anything else than the person medicine and then I love that my son used Ms. And I feel I have thinking that everyone comes good in PE can be good many things. But for me it's something that I think I'm sussed every time when I'm I don't even know how to explain it. But every people is so interesting. And I think it's somehow together with this that that I can explain every time different where But I think that every time when I'm not used to people, I feel really that's not supposed to talk, I feel really that is the new sitters, I don't know anything. And that's so nice calling this feeling. And then I see that I'm like, it's more of that how you feel, how you connect, and what you do together like that, I'm doing something. And that's why I learn all the time, new things, every people even we have some people who have been 25 years, still, I feel that I find something new, it's just this moment when you are together with someone. And I think that's something and I think you're that something, I think is something really interesting. And I think it's something together that that you that the people will see them you will see them as somehow like some reality and then they they somehow connect with themselves something and also for me is like maybe myself also therapy because that makes me I don't have a chance just to be present somehow. And that I think is also that I think is I really could do that like the seven hours in a row. And I don't like tie it and I think I feel also get some energy for that. And I think it's I don't know it's just my my work and I go to that whenever and as I think it's so fantastic that's I've maybe I have given up something and I really love to develop also new things example which was I have a 1x at least one example I have one Alexander Technique teacher was very aware about her body and it's very hard to find her to motivate unused minutes because she was so aware all the time. And then we start start to gather with her that I was all the time like we are used to me that I asked her to press some part he must be to look at records I press press in that way I put my hand brush the brush there and then we notice that what happened her body to racist, racist or something or push the feet or brush this even it's very like a physical thing but I make her to love and shoosmiths You want to have every other message and then we use all the time different someone for hips legs, but I will save some ideas that will happen in the body and that I think that was example one thing what makes the new level some arguments that you make the other one active or you make the other one relax or thesis not the people who are hard using all of them is nothing new I understand but but I think that there is there's just so like challenge way how you taught someone how you feel your own body how you set up and what you press in your fingers on what you feel in your hands and what you use with some people what you don't use the other and I think that's a very like calling because every time when you call the body it can be it has always some possibility to get some new meeting with that person makes it I think it should be the whole life that they want when you meet someone you don't have this hold thinking and patterns and all this all Shankar has for you go on repeat these things. I think that that's it like that and and that I think that what makes me that I would like to make the same feeling somehow. But I think it's very much about your thoughts in the new report a conversation together that you don't talk so much. You don't have this you have to like go inside you without use meta and I think that's what has keeping me I don't think I could have interest so much to have a lead class. 25 Years parties is something Margie for me a mystery. I have also have these things that I cannot understand the people real. This always comes to mistake for me. I think they are such the souls in there. Interesting that that was the shot.

Todd McLaughlin: 29:11

Oh, that's awesome. Frank, I really appreciate hearing all of that. A couple of things that I feel like I just picked up on from you speaking. One question I have is you made mention about how when you first started to practice the Ashtanga Yoga and you're practicing with Lena that the structure was so good for you and that you really didn't have too many questions about anything that it was just like just really focused on following and knowing that there was a structure. Do you think if at that point when somebody asked lino What about two and a half days practice or three days practice if someone had presented to you a little bit more of kind of gray, not so much clear like you do this You do that, but more of like, well, you could do this or you could do that. Do you think you would have responded as well at the time? Or do you feel like there's this like aging process and like mature ation process where like you had to go through that first to now be able to kind of explore the practice the way you that you currently feel and see it.

Frank Kappas: 30:30

I think it this is so innovative, somehow this? I cannot. I can say that I think some people in the beginning could be nice to have a structure. And it's very much about your roles, the back background and when you are what point you come there, I think I'm very happy for that. Because I cannot be sure that could it be good to keep this like more strong structure homelife? Because that has been always, for me the bit difficult to keep my own structure. And I'm very, I think that if I could have, like, because I love all the time to do interesting yoga practice. But let's say I don't have so good discipline I do every day. Yeah. A little bit like that, oh, no, I have good time, I can do that. Yeah, I am much more easier to start to go with basketball training. And I want to serve a family to go to shop or do whatever things around building products, and very easy to just to do something or not do it myself. And I think that has been somehow like this period when I do very much about myself. Now it's very much about I love to teach that it's much easier for me, and all these unused minutes. And I think actually, nowadays, when the children start to be the oldest is 18. The youngest is is now so nine, he started again, the time that I somehow would like to maybe have I think it's good pitch so alarming to have the outer structure. But to create yourself the inside structure that this is my space I take this is really much harder. And I think one thing is that if you have this kind of pizza like Lena was that time you're very easy because you can you somehow get this SuperDude and it put yourself to limit. And also if you have a group where to train. I haven't had the group in the train for many, many years. I love because some place to when I could practice. But But and I think that for my type of person what I am, I get really much easier to practice with the group. Yeah, because I can do myself but I'm leading with like, Oh, I'm not like competitive or I don't have this kind of discipline. Oh, I have to do this. I have to do that. Really like that way I think it could be good for me to have a group where to practice regularly. But if you're every morning six to nine here are in this club many times you are very tired sometimes you got to meditate five o'clock, then you absolutely tired after that. Not so much long into practice, then you go to home and hang in there or do something else. I think it's it's, I would love to have the structure. I would love that someone make me the structure. But the point is that you create myself my own tracks or it could be the goal anyway. Yeah. That's why I said I'm processing now I'm getting better at that. And yeah, one one thing,

Todd McLaughlin: 33:48

good answer you just made mention that your Do you have two children? Are there more children in between the ages of 18 and nine?

Frank Kappas: 33:57

Excuse me? My theory your children have X can you

Todd McLaughlin: 34:03

say? How many how many children do you have?

Frank Kappas: 34:06

Actually I have like I live in Stockholm. I have two boys in Scotland. Stockholm who is 18 and younger 115 but I moved to Finland back to new family about 899 years ago Yeah. Then I live in Finland. I see my boys with a holiday but I have not been interviewed like normal life. Yeah. We have the new relationship. We have a children of which nine years now. And then we we have also Tucker's who is 18 and 14. Wow. Wow. I mean family and 10 the boys come to holidays in ourselves. We have like this kind of a little bit. Little bit. Yeah. Anyway to work somehow. Anyway,

Todd McLaughlin: 34:58

have you heard that saying Have you come across that thing in the Ashtanga world that having children is like the sixth series, or seventh series or whatever series like that, like they say, like, you know, there's maybe the first series second series, third series four series. And then the fifth series is, is having a family, like the real challenge sometimes is being a parent, can you share any insights about how being a parent has enlightened or brought more joy into your life and or created challenges that maybe you didn't know you'd be able to overcome? Or work with?

Frank Kappas: 35:42

I think that, it's just that when you get on here, and you want to give them everything, and it's so easy to forget yourself, because you're so happy when they are happy. And you you you can treat as smart. You don't, you are not any more thinking about yourself the same way. And that I think is the best part in the children that if something's more important to you, I think that's it's a very nice, but this is the the, I think, is the challenge that how you could also support yourself the same time and you sleep enough and take care about these things that because it's very easily caused this or that is very easy to be this family for the others. But it's hard to be yourself. Yeah, yeah. And that is easy to escape or to yourself to just to serve in the family, because you get immediately this good feedback. And you feel it's so important. And it is, but I think it's it goes to time when I think it's what you need and how much you need to support yourself and the relationship and all these other things, that it's many things going yeah, you have time. Also to land down yourself. I don't think that I think it's I think I, this was just the one, I don't know why I have my mind works like this, I get some like, thinking about I remember, I accent but I remember one thing is in when I was in long time ago in Vipassana. And then you'll remember later on than those that after we passed on, you're quite open. And you have worked with this blind, RAS and you're like, open and you can more like vulnerable Lantis. And then I see my children what was 10 I was like five, six years old. And it was horrible. This feeling when you see this that you understand it sees that I see them first time now. Yeah, you know that? Yeah, it because you've built up so much about these pictures, and even you are with them, and you love them. And this, you rarely see them as they are. And like you had a really cannot connect with with yourself and this, that you can see the reality yourself and also to see the other people as they are somehow. And this this what compassion that comes in this that when you see just clearly. And that I think it's a good thing to think that, that when you start to serve the family, and you start to lose yourself, how could you really be anymore? But I think, yeah, it's good that you love it. And it's very good that you give everything for the others. But also if you don't take care about your own this body mind system. And I think the Vipassana is very good for that. And therapy is a good if you can go sometimes and or there's many ways for the people can that they feel anyway that they can keep themselves open and they are like feeling good in many ways and the relationships can have any work with them close relations, all kinds of things. But I think it's that's

Todd McLaughlin: 39:08

a great point, Frank, I love.

Frank Kappas: 39:11

I know, it's not everyone thinks that but I just say

Todd McLaughlin: 39:14

nice, important. It's important. I agree with you. I love the way that you reminded me about actually seeing them without my preconceived notions of who they are. What I hope they'll become whatever challenges they're going through that that hope that somehow they'll be okay and that everything will work out alright, but like what you said when you come out of upasana and or long term retreat where you're in that state of mind of just seeing everything like like even just like your refrigerator is like the most amazing thing that could have ever been invented. You know, like, you get home and your bed. You know like your sheets you're like ah, this is like why would I need anything else in life I mean, I have everything right here. So I love that you brought up like when you see your children or and or your loved ones when you come out, it's like you just want to celebrate them in some way shape or form. And it's a good point to take care of ourselves to actually get to that point where we feel that way isn't an amazing thing.

Frank Kappas: 40:19

I just mean that example I think we have here in Tampa, sometimes we have this pet, we sit in group settings and these things in Vipassana. And I think it's, it's somehow it's, it's easy that you go to sleep and the status scan yourself and start to feel you can even you are staying like 100 hours in one fret read, they're sitting and observing. And like making these no avoiding unpleasant states able to stay with unpleasant sensation as they go away and staying with pleasant sensation without making any craving for them. And you work with this, it's so clear, it's just work with this the our power is nothing. For me, it's okay. It's it's totally okay. But when you go to the home, you start to get this old pattern sleep tensor in the store, Mark and this, can you stay there in that moment? And go with and feel that without acting and feeling where it moves, how it stays. I just mean it's not only that, it says this, But how are you ready to change these old patterns? What do you have in the normal life? What comes always with sleep? It's scary and history arbitrary. It's not like this is so much harder to call in that because you have to show also that you are like weak and you are like, your emotion is so much bigger thing that is 100 hours. Yeah, I think it's really good. I think even they say that it's 200 times more difficult in normal life in the store to use these things. That keep I think, I think you remember this Vietnamese monk is tick, not Tom. Yes. He died one years ago, I have always planning to I think that he was very good like, this Vipassana tradition. Even he was very this practical part of that. That's all always appreciating him and reading his books and these things, but but I think I remember he was one talk showing in state. I don't remember what she asked him that. How you're always so like, happy and smiling. And that, that, that easy through here that? Are you really like that, why is it such like that. And he said that he was just money. He said, I'm just doing my practice. And I think that's a really good because somehow you should do some kind of practice, what you take care about it is so your systems that you start, not that close and up and you start not that takes old patterns, you don't really have to repeat and you can stay with your your reaction without acting out. And I think in like in Vipassana, I think maybe that in the beginning, I really love this idea that you are not doing Vipassana for making yourself enlightenment, that own reasons to that you are responsible for their close people. Yeah, me, I love it. Because I really feel it's true, that what you really make it happy is when the other people are happy around you and you can influence the code way from them that they could be. And I think that's a real like some main points, but I I believe it.

Todd McLaughlin: 43:33

Yeah, I hear you Frank. I recently had a situation where I got challenged so much that it it chat, you know, all these ideas about just I'm just doing my practice and being able to be present to sensations in in the busy working world, family life and studio life and everything. Have you had a situation anytime recently and or in the last few years where you have been tested, where you're I don't want to I don't even know if we should call it faith. But you know, when you're when you're in that state where you're meditating, and you you think, okay, I really see this, I understand that these sensations are just gonna come and they're gonna go and even some of these really, really difficult intense sensations, they at some point or another, it will shift all I have to do is just be present and just sit with this and but recently, I had one a sensation that was just so extreme from a health perspective that I thought oh, this is it. This is the big one, you know, and and I've been able to come out the other side of it and I can't help but laugh at myself at how involved I got in it again, you know, and just thinking this is This is going to change and make everything so different. And now I'm looking at it from the other side. And going, Gosh, you know, if I could adjust relaxed a little bit, you know, have you had any of those recently?

Frank Kappas: 45:17

You were describing exactly how it works somehow. And I think it's I think exactly this kind of, like a relationship or some some things you get very easily with this, that, you know, it can be for me, I think it's the same kind of things that like xy, we speak about with children and see, say something and playing me, you, it's very hard to when you get the reaction to, to really stay in that. And wait that is is goes away, before you come back, then you can say, okay, she say like that, but I have done like that. Okay, but I understand, and maybe we can change this. And that's why the old pattern doesn't go on. But I think in reasonably I go I have some kind of, it's like a therapy, but it's about my work or on this. I go once a month with very good like therapy. And I always I many times the problem that we don't talk so much. But I tried to find the shell what I have somehow inside me what I hope somewhere. And it's so fantastic. When you get somehow this kind of special situation when you just by you. And then you start to loosen up these things. And even doesn't feel in that moment very, can maybe not it can maybe feel a bit sick, but you stay, you're just working somehow that and it's so light, the feeling and when you bicycle back to home. And even that after that I start to see like flashback to people, but I was last week and the cause. And I've seen that I received I see them somehow understand them, not just seeing them, I have seen them. But now in the packs that I understand something about them. Or if I bicycle in home, I see the faces and the people and the bodies, then I don't even just look or avoid I just feel that I somehow I get something connected with them, I understand what they are hiding or what they're saying. And I think that's that's really to keep keep all the time. Keep this, this feeling inside. That you are not like scared. I think this printer brands I think see has very good example about this vulnerable to be vulnerable, or how much you get strength and this reality and connection and empathy for others when you don't need to close and, and be like trying to make yourself safe somehow. I think that I don't know if I was saying things. But what comes in my mind now

Todd McLaughlin: 47:56

that's perfect. That's beautiful. Thank you. You know, recently I had a chance to interview lota substa who was from Sweden. And she she's the one who is kind enough sweet enough. When I afterward I asked her what I said, let's uh, who do you who can I reach out to to, to interview and she mentioned you she said Frank is such a great guy. And she said he's so funny. He has such a great sense of humor. And I'm curious, do you do? Do you bring comedy? And or do you try to bring humor into your workshops consciously? Or is it just like a natural thing that you do? Or do you think she made an accurate description of you? Do you see yourself as somebody who has a great sense?

Frank Kappas: 48:44

I think it's depends. I think it's very easy to be like, happy guy where you have a resume and everyone should report that. I think it is also I think in in like in yoga Shala where the people do too good things for themselves. Is it difficult to be open there it's really easy, because everyone is supporting that I made this light and as he is somehow I think that people who are only doing this I'm really scared with these people was only doing the workshop plan hanging in there like in the middle of everyone this all the circumstances supporting things like greatly that they can like of course you get the best pesticides in yourself in this but maybe after that when you don't connect with your speaker you lose all your energy or load down. I think that I think is something that and I want to say that because I'm really long time but I'm very like slowly and this changes but I'm somehow I am now I'm going to study some trauma based yoga and I think I'm really interesting about these special groups in that way because I have had some people who Yeah, like it was coming out of prison and teeth. And I see that saspa normal yoga practice when they move, likely or like moving typically. And they are connecting somehow what's happened themselves more or less. After that they relax really good. They can say I have never relaxed, so much. So good. And I think is is something that I'm really interesting. Because actually, many people I, of course, every people has a big problem, but we don't know. And everyone is very challenged to do yoga on these things. But there is anyway, some kind of the people who's come in yoga, they already somehow choosing to take care about themselves. Yeah, but these people that I have talked with this, and who if they have five years, and they can choose if they go to yoga, or they buy to cigarettes, they never think about going to yoga. And I speak about this kind of people who is not like imaginating that all what I should do myself, Should I take care of ourselves, they don't have that idea at all. They just survive. And I was thinking that anyway to your car, I was thinking that I could apply somehow like this 10 Times card with some foundation or something that like 100 An offer this with different organization, that the people can come free here because I think some people is not about feeling good. It's about survival in this life. And it's I think that I think is the is the different they don't need to do much. And I think about the Yoga is not about maybe it's easy this way to connect with your body, body, mind and the senses and what you're avoiding or not not. Do you get some taste of present anyway, that could be the go away. Like I think the Brenda Brown said he was saying or saying one talk that Cecil's a yogi, but he's not going there's no time to call the yoga class, but he has a yoga mat. And sometimes he got to sit in the yoga mat and threats there. And I think that's exactly the same little bit like art. I think yoga is not about only to do in Asana. So maybe there is some kind of attitude that you want to see the reality you want to investigate what is the real and what is truth for me and you want to see more clearly the thing. And I think, like what I've seen art and studying art and doing this, I think the best thing in art anyway, even I don't do I don't feel that I'm not the artist anymore. Because I feel the artists only to be like except to different people. And, and like appreciate the people take a risk and give something for teams and call to new areas where no one else has been and trying to be. They always ask this my wife nowadays, our time together sees the artist, like a good good famous artist and I'm staying with her and I really appreciate this that it's very hard to in order in art school was very much about I think this that you appreciate when you are different. You appreciate when you try something that you cannot and you try these things and this athlete is to be everyone and everywhere. appreciate these people who is so corrupt that they don't call justice. What is safe routines and these things and yeah, I think

Todd McLaughlin: 53:28

that's a good point. I love I love getting a chance to speak with people who are yoga practitioners and artists. It's so fascinating. I I guess I was gonna I was first gonna say I don't see myself as an artist but I guess sometimes I do see myself as an artist even though I don't create art in a traditional like in a traditional form like a painting but I do see myself as an artist when I get in the ocean and swim like I feel like somehow like feeling the water and the way I move my body through the water that feels like art sometimes or so I do believe art can be created in every single moment but I love how you are bringing up like the community of artists support one another to try to be different or or maybe not so much that you try to be different but to celebrate, to celebrate the uniqueness and the difference which is so cool. Doo doo, doo when you practice Ashtanga Are you sticking with like, half primary full primary? Do you keep moving? Obviously, I'm guessing if you practice with Lena are going to Mysore multiple times like eight years in a row you probably are pushing up into second series in third series. I'm guessing it's I think

Frank Kappas: 54:48

we were I think I heard that you were also integrated team Feldman. Yeah. That was like my friend in that time that we were hanging there with all the time. Five minutes yes in the corner that I think is so great time I'm so like interval training I think we train in the end of third in that time and but it was so light everything I don't have any worries you just hang there all day and take the practice and leave it at use material a few hours and it's just like can it be more easy the circumstance they're just doing the practice nothing else actually. Yeah. And I think that was somehow like a fun and it's really nice to hang with Tim because he's so like funny guy or something I really, really like happy to get on and he was actually anytime but it also like a few months ago four months ago he had a course in our Skype for so nice to see I haven't seen so much lately because he lives so far away. But anyway, I think it was I think that was somehow this time in the yoga was for me was this playful thing it was just the fun. Exactly. And fun and our fears strong and healthy and nothing could hurt me no worries for anything. And it was somehow like this when the children are that should be this kind of feeling all the time. Yeah, I don't think it's it's but now nowadays I think that's I think maybe I do the primary here and there. Sometimes I can do a little bit second. I haven't found turd I can do a few times may be still there but I am not. I'm happy with with with primary doing what I doing. And but I think I could upgrade a Gradiate up, upgrade that in the second. That could be my and I think the good thing is of course that I'm not so I'm PCs that I have never heard myself.

Todd McLaughlin: 56:59

That's a good point you have. You've never really hurt yourself. No, no, because

Frank Kappas: 57:05

I'm very stiff. It was very easy to work towards stiffness. Because you're stiff and strong. It was somehow like safety me and I don't have that's a really interesting. I don't have SATCOM I'm still like that way. Right? Okay, that's like I do things I like to go to sometimes to run. And I do quite metaphysical for some times. And I do quite quite, but I somehow I like to astanga always when I get to the Mac.

Todd McLaughlin: 57:36

Yeah. You know, it's so great that you said that because I recently started having this what seemed to me profound realization that I need to stiffen up, like I have, you know, when you hear about injuries that happen from over hyper flexibility, this realization of like, wow, is putting so much emphasis on flexibility part. Obviously strength with the stronger you can't avoid being challenged with your strength. I mean, the strength part comes no matter what. But, but, and finding so much happiness like oh my gosh, all along, I've just needed to be stiffer. Like I should have tried to just stiffen up instead. And so I love hearing that you say that? No, I was strong and stiff, which probably might be why you've been able to not injure yourself. That's a really fascinating to me, that's just so fascinating.

Frank Kappas: 58:34

And I think that that I think it's it's good and bad things. But I'm not ambitious at all, and that I maybe I'm lying myself, but I really feel because I didn't read the book. What is the next answer slimmer say that you get this? I get it. I was not. Of course, I was happy somehow. But I wasn't never do like extra tracing. I get some polls. I think why? I don't understand all why I'm doing that. I like the fun and nice. Yeah, and I see I have the same attitude. I like when I can breed and I can move and I enjoy. But if I have a hurry to go somewhere tonight, is it okay? But now I don't have more time I do this and finishing. But maybe that is the reason why I have never pushed myself in Astana. And that I have never done with these things. I know some people have really pushed themselves Nasta they have get this that they don't want to do or it's very like they want to I think you have to make some type of like also suitable for you in that situation when you analyze but also you can line up again I think is I have seen also that very clear that if you don't have any goals that you just do it it's usually called worse and worse the practice nearby little like shut down. That if you have this that you do even one as a little bit more clearly but it It's good to be processed something if you're not processed anyway you start to go down Yeah, yeah, it's good to have not like it I have the cause I'm very big thing. It's such that a little bit at something it gets more motivate the interest also in the practice. Yeah, that's good. It's the situation of course.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:00:20

Great point. Frank. I saw a picture on your website and you're holding somebody's foot. It looked to me like you were practicing like almost like a Thai massage or Thai Yoga type stretching pressure and you made mention earlier in our discussion that you have a friend who is really big in the Alexander Technique, which is a wonderful bodywork modality Have you have you explored that arena as well? Are you a massage therapist am and

Frank Kappas: 1:00:51

I got the I was when I was in Stockholm I was in Oxford sounds today it was in peace kind of one year so like yoga massage somehow education Yeah, I need that for a while but but I like really do it and now studying here in Finland somehow like this old Finnish started on bone settings things like three years Wow But it looked like a real full time t thing but I have given the treatments I like somehow that because I think it's what interests me it's very much about sensitivity about the hands what you can feel in the Yeah, yeah. Is body sensation trucks or or somehow the bodies and these things that you can develop the sensitivity there's always one layer more to feel and these things and that I think this when you are doing one treatment like two hours and you really get a feeling about this what happened in that and I think that's very for me also it's very like I have difficult to stop that because it's so interesting that I think the same things everything like in the past and when you start to call Stan in your property it's got to be like the treat what is really interesting never sight same things there's always something changing and that I think is the main thing a person like is know that everything is changing that when we understand this that that 10 is we are very we have quite good life not trying to avoid anything and not hanging with something so choosing some feelings that we can understand this structure that having a good stay become uncomfortable sensation and so on.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:02:37

Oh that's so cool. That's so cool. Frank I love how you've been able to blend our US Ashtanga Vipassana bodywork is there any other modality or kind of similar genre of of expression that you blend into your experience your teaching your practice your your life?

Frank Kappas: 1:03:11

Can you kind of say more simple I don't understand.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:03:15

I was just curious if you see I also enjoy yoga pashmina and massage therapy. And and then I feel like what happens is I kind of have a hard time distinguishing which however, they're different. It all kind of starts to blend together It feels like my yoga practice feeds my meditation my meditation feeds my massage therapy practice feeds my and they all start to kind of work together Have you have you pulled any other like core ingredients into your repertoire that we haven't talked about already?

Frank Kappas: 1:03:56

No I don't think so. I think it I think we were really good like explaining how they flow together but I think everything like the main thing is this that really that how you could see this you can stay with this reality what do you see in your your sales and and how you see more clearly outside and how you could say like more simple like how you can be present at the present everyone say that how to present everyone should be present but in the practical I will say it's good to be in some level practice that I think no one is all the time present but yeah good good point. I think like I think this like you say in massage therapy it is very apart meditative and you're very like contract with someone. Yeah. You are very like how to be present you cannot be somewhere else and like God used math you cannot be somewhere else because I think also also to choose work with this that is somehow is supporting you to it's very easy to beat circumstances in depression. Yeah, but I think it's much harder to be present maybe when you're caught around with someone or you are very pressured or very tight or your working situation is very, you're very, like hard circumstances in your work, how you could put all of these things in there and think that's a real challenge.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:05:17

Yeah. Great point. And I really want to ask you this Frank, and I know we're getting close to our hour that we scheduled together at the end, but this is a difficult this is perhaps maybe maybe I shouldn't preface it as being difficult this might be a more difficult question to answer but we recently when I watched the events that occurred in Israel over the weekend, and I guess I My question for you is how are you processing when you when you watch or observe the news and like for me, it brought up so much. Just to see what we do as humans to each other. It is just challenging to comprehend for me because everything we spoke about was in such a like, I mean, we were addressing the difficulties of life but we also are like really happy doing what we do. And I feel like we see people who are living peaceful lives and kind of getting along with each other and it's an amazing thing and I never want to take it for granted and when I see what what I saw what I see happening in the world I go Ah, gotcha definitely don't want to take for granted that I have a beautiful community around me and people that care and I care for but I'm just curious how you've been processing it

Frank Kappas: 1:06:45

I think is I think it comes maybe partly because we have our oldest daughter is 18 and C is really good in school and a very good aware everything responsibility and then he say that word what do you have left for us? I'm just 18 and I my life is here and that's the view and then I start to think that it's

Todd McLaughlin: 1:07:19

Oh Frank I'm so sorry. We got we had just a little glitch on the on the Zoom what we have

Frank Kappas: 1:07:25

what if? What if it's some problem? Is it good work? Is it working? It will still work? Okay.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:07:32

Yeah, no, I think I got you good. Now. I'm sorry if you can repeat the last like 30 seconds.

Frank Kappas: 1:07:38

Okay, can I can I say again? Please? Okay. No, it was I think I come many, many labor lawyers when you say these things is one thing is this that when I see our 18 year old teenager girl who is really good in school we really responsible for everyone taking out with some old people or she's very much aware about the situation in the world and the nature and very much responsibility and leave us with that. And then it says that what is the status with the stock now to be adult and what is the view of these things? What happened to wars, what's going on Lebanon when they end and and then many other words, of course but what the situation and see some say that think about her that sees us now I'm 60 Soon. See it's starting now to live not the life she has the freedom but then of course there's good things also but that was one thing. Other thing is that I think it's happened many times this when is too many people dies the war that you just I think there is some word also I don't know what what it was in English but anyway it is that you start to you have to close an attack and you start to contract for the close people you start to take take care about this close people. You are somehow the only reaction what you're you try to take care about your children and disclose real so you try to you try to handle it because you cannot take this so big and if you cannot do anything, you just get low so like horrible feel. I remember there was one pizza when this sorry, my is not in Africa when tacos this people around the meat around in the water they seem down people. There's one photo what a year's worth of the one small children rovers in the sandpit for going who was dying there, like like that. And that makes very much about the people feeling how horrible these things in because they can understand when it's the one children and they can relate that I have small children if it could be that, but if there's 100 People die every day and you see them and you don't see it says that you somehow that you have to put some think that that you protect somehow yourself in these horrible things. But the other thing is that what I think is that somehow how the world is now is also how we are now is somehow pretend some part of us how the society and think that half of the world's starving and half of the world is eating to mazzani Give dying with that and pick companies take over the others and, and all these things what has going going on? I think it's it's not some are like out of nowhere that happened these things would happen now in the world. And I think it's is somehow like also that can we honest go inside of ourselves, how much violence we have left in ourselves even we can have this peaceful calm mind that we think that we are good that we are good support but but I think the potent they are we are the killers and all these people if the circumstance could be us to different and that I think it's good to understand also that it's not that everything happened outside of us and these these people is somehow part of us how difficult we have in the small to keep our own trial marks and all these things. It's I think it's it's really scary, horrible. And I think the only what you can do is really work yourself in these things. And of course, if you work with this, you can influence it's really important or things. I don't have any better.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:11:29

I appreciate Yeah, I think that's a great. Thank you for sharing that because that's helpful. I like that viewpoint. It's it's it's somehow we can work with it in our in ourselves at some somehow we are connected. We all are connected. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Frank. I know I I really, I really enjoyed this opportunity. Speaking with you. I was really excited. I set my alarm for 5am This morning, because for me, it was 630 starting time for you one. So I got a good night's sleep last night. My wife was like, Come on, stay up with me. And I said, No, I really want to be awake. When I talked to Frank in the morning. I want to be alert I don't want to be like foggy. And because I heard so many great things about you from from other people that I respect greatly. And and, and it's It's you It's been better than I expected. I mean, I had I was really excited and but I've really enjoyed this opportunity, getting to the chance to speak with you and I feel like your students and the people that you get to interact with today tomorrow. In your Shahla your your studio and or when you're traveling and teaching workshop are really lucky. And, and I hope one day to travel to Finland, I was watching on Netflix a new show called The Human playground where it does stories about different people doing games and sports all over the world. And they showed people in Finland, doing reindeer racing in the middle of winter, like I guess like getting behind the reindeer on some skis and tying a rope to the hardest thing and just like Holland, but on the snow. And I thought oh man, the fins look like a really interesting culture. I gotta go visit Finland someday. So I really hope to come over there and get a chance to practice with you. And that would be really amazing.

Frank Kappas: 1:13:24

Okay, but I think I read a bit. I think what you are doing is that you're interviewing other Yogi's, I think that's something great. And I would love to do that. Because I think it's a really good that, because there's so much about this society to like I'm dying, doing now that speaking about myself, and that to really be interesting about others, and what they are thinking and what they do. I think that's much more important to just to try to make yourself very important. I think it's really nice. I really appreciate.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:13:55

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Well, I look forward to continuing the conversation with you to and seeing you at some point and or

Frank Kappas: 1:14:04

some people that that would

Todd McLaughlin: 1:14:07

be incredible. I'd be like, wait a minute, I think I know you, but I can't talk to you. Okay, I won't be able to talk to you until

Frank Kappas: 1:14:17

they are not talked about and

Todd McLaughlin: 1:14:21

will probably know more about each other after sitting silently together for 10 days and we will if we actually share words. Awesome. Frank, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Native yoga Todd cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can To improve and if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time