Victoria Davis ~ Mental Balance for High Performing Minds

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Join my special guest, Victoria Davis, on this week's episode of Native Yoga Toddcast. Victoria spent twenty years searching for answers, applying remedies & integrating practices, and have taken all she has learned & packaged it in a way that works. How does she know it works? Because it’s worked for her. And here’s why she knows it’ll work for you.

Visit Victoria on her websites:
Personal guidance, programs, and mentorship info are here:  www.victoriadavis.co
For corporate guidance, mindset training & work with teams: www.wellspringmind.com
Costa Rica Retreat: www.mindbodyliferetreat.com
Find her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/victoriadavisyoga/

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Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga, Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So my podcast host, they're called buzzsprout.com I love you guys, Buzzsprout You're amazing, you've made this whole journey. So easy. So you know, I don't I don't get any kickback from from those guys. But if you're thinking about starting a podcast, which I highly recommend, it's a great therapeutic experience. Go for it, check out Buzzsprout. But they've created this new option where if you go to the little link below, you click on it, it takes you to the Buzzsprout page where all the podcast episodes are, it says support. And when you click on that, it gives you the option of support monthly $3$5 $8 $10 per month cancel anytime. And just put your name and your email. And now I haven't got a supporter yet, but I know it's gonna happen here eventually. And but I just wanted to mention that because I love doing this. And I'm just so excited to bring these incredible guests. And on that note, Victoria Davis, do you need a little bit of inspiration in your life? Do you need a little positivity? Do you feel like you know, I just want to hear somebody who's just like on it. Feeling good doing the work, then I'm so happy you're here because Victoria has so much positive energy you're gonna hear and feel right away, please check her out on her website, which is wellspringmind.com. She's going to be offering a retreat. She's got a website for that mindbodyliferetreat.com. And you can also find her on her personal site, which is Victoriadavis.co. Go ahead and give her a follow over on Instagram at @VictoriaDavisyoga with that same handle across various social media platforms, except Twitter. All right, Victoria. Thank you if you listen to this intro. Thank you. That was amazing. All right, everybody. Let's begin. I'm so happy to be here now with Victoria Davis. Victoria. I think you're in New York. Am I right?

Victoria Davis: 3:11

I am in New York. I'm in Brooklyn,

Todd McLaughlin: 3:13

I can see the brick wall behind you which like is so quintessential New York. And that's cool. I can't wait to ask you questions about your New York Life. But before we go there can actually I just want to ask a really easy question. How are you feeling today?

Victoria Davis: 3:29

I'm feeling amazing. Is it a really good day, this Brooklyn brick in a rainy morning is is the best way to start any any weekday or weekend.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:38

Very cool. I found you via Instagram. And I saw that both Dharma yoga and Aaron, body aware follows you. And they're both people that I really look up to and admire. And I thought, oh, Victoria, that she looks really cool. And so I reached out to you, and you agreed to join me here. So first of all, thank you so much, because I really do appreciate this. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself.

Victoria Davis: 4:12

My name is Victoria Davis. I was born and raised on a farm in Illinois. And so I think that kind of mindset has really set the stage for I've been living in the city now for about 12 years. But my heart still, you know, whether it's from spiritual practice, or just from the way that I was born, and all the karma coming into this life, I just really love and kind of require this deep sense of, of inner thinking and inner time spent. So getting back into the the more general aspect of growing up on a farm and then I came to New York for the first time at 18. I did really well in a competition that sent me kind of all over the world and I ended up in New York finally, when I was nine In 20, I had already started at university at that point and was radically, radically, radically unhappy. So from that, then, having been diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder, when I was an adolescent, I had spent so many years just kind of trying to figure out how to balance what the world required to be successful and just kind of a productive part of society, and also internally not go crazy, you know, so this sense of inner longing, this sense of inner calm, I, growing up in such a quiet space kind of fostered that ability, but then throwing myself into a very urban space, I was really struggling with how how to function? And go ahead. No,

Todd McLaughlin: 5:45

I said, wow.

Victoria Davis: 5:47

Yeah, yeah. So in my very early 20s, I literally got a sign from an a frame that was sitting on the sidewalk, that was three blocks from where I lived place called the Three Jewels in New York City. I started meditating there in 2012. And I never turned back, I went from just basic kind of meditation morning practice to Tibetan Buddhist study. And now 11 years later, this is what I do.

Todd McLaughlin: 6:15

Amazing. Can you shed a little light on what it's like? Having the diagnosis of OCD? And what that actually looks like feels like, from from you? Who's living? Yeah,

Victoria Davis: 6:28

yeah. So So I often use this reference. Because people use OCD, like, Oh, it's my just my OCD coming out when they need to kind of like clean something off the table, or they're getting hyper focused on one detail. That's a portion of it. But it's more than just needing whites next to whites, reds next to reds and purples next to purples in your closet. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is really, it shows up in a few ways. So I'll tell you the way it shows up. For me, it's an absolute need for balance on both sides. So for example, if I know that an obsession with obsessive thought with a compulsive behavior that follows, which for me might show up as knowing that my apartment door is locked, and needing to make sure it's locked multiple times. And the way that I need to make sure it's locked is if I turn the knob three times to the right, I have to turn the knob three times to the left. Wow. But then if that so it gets even deeper, where if the weight of the turn doesn't feel equal, I have to do it again, to the same numerical amount two times or three times on each side. But then the weight needs to feel the same. So it all needs to balance which if you're someone that's listening, that has struggled with this or know someone that struggled with this, that's going to make total sense to you. And you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. If you've never needed to worry about this, this sort of detail. I sound like a crazy person. Because it is it's an absolute, it's insanity. It doesn't feel good. So I wouldn't call it sanity. Yeah, you know, and that's kind of the those seemingly very strange outliers that really disrupts the normal flow of life. That's why it's called obsessive, obsessive compulsive disorder. That's why it's a disordered behavior, because it's really disruptive.

Todd McLaughlin: 8:18

Do you see that showing up in your meditation practice in terms of like a right or left balance? Is there another way that that shows up? Maybe something physically, like if you're one knee is higher than the other knee? Or I don't know how I could probably come up with a bunch of different, like, two different sides to the coin scenario, but or does the meditation almost help balance? That intensity for you? What have you? Yeah, go ahead. No, I was gonna say, What have you observed there?

Victoria Davis: 8:50

So I have two things. Three things to say on that two examples of how this shows up. For me that balance, I was finding a struggle with the breath. Right. So as we as we learn to meditate, and we get settled and grounded in our body, oftentimes, we're told, instructed, quite skillfully to attend to the breath. Okay. But in my own mind, this idea of control so strong, that I wasn't realizing that I was manipulating my own breath, then being dissatisfied with the way that it was feeling. So my inhale felt sharper than my exhale, I would spend my time on the cushion trying to balance that. So my breaths felt like they were balanced and equal, which is not the purpose of attending to the breath. Right? We're not saying manipulate the breath. This is not like a designated priming GABA practice.

Todd McLaughlin: 9:41

Right? Yeah.

Victoria Davis: 9:43

And then there's another aspect. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 9:45

Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. Yeah. So

Victoria Davis: 9:48

another aspect of obsessive compulsive disorder is unwanted thoughts. And for me, those might those would show up in the way of that one thing I'm not supposed to think about. Usually that was harmed boiler damaging to someone else in some way that would cause me internal pain. That's what would come to mind. You know, so I had a I had a son and I still do have a small dog. So just these terrible images of her being harmed would be what would infiltrate my meditation. Yeah. And I would then need my, my kind of armory of robust tactics to ease this level of like, ease this level of believing that something terrible is happening right now. It's just gotten to be so robust, because this is this is what I was going to say naturally. But this is the mind that I was coming onto the cushion with all of these kind of treacherous things that were just showing up that felt like there was war happening all the time.

Todd McLaughlin: 10:47

Yeah. That's so fascinating. You mentioned that when you I saw you wrote that when you were 10 years old is when he received this diagnosis, can you not nine years old, I have a 10 year old daughter, so I can, like, easily visualize that that frame of development. And so on that note, what were the telltale factors that led your parents too, and I'm guessing your parents brought you somewhere where they were able to say, Hey, this is what's going on? Can you can you tell me what like what they were seeing or if you were told what they remember seeing in you?

Victoria Davis: 11:25

Yeah, that's a great question. So my, not a lot of people know this so much about me, because I don't so often talk about kind of my family of origin. But my older brother was diagnosed with Tourette Syndrome, who's a little over two years older than me. He was diagnosed with Tourette syndrome when he was 10 started showing symptoms when he was nine. And in the 90s. Nobody was talking about Tourette's people didn't know what it was, it was, it was something that was, you know, this kid went from being the coolest one to now he's just ostracized because we don't know what's going on. And he is one of the the fewer cases that has verbal tics. So that was very disruptive to his classroom. And it was very disruptive to his friend groups. And he was really struggling. And I was able on occasion to go in with him. He had a great psychologist, when he was a kid, I was able to go in with him a few times. It's somewhere in the course of that it was just kind of mentioned as a sidebar, that my tendencies were textbook OCD, as though it were just kind of like something else, you know, oh, and also this with something like seven, it's, I think the tendency is about in 70 to 75% of cases of females who are born with Tourette syndrome, or the gene for it, it shows up as obsessive compulsive disorder. Interesting. So in males, it tends to be more common as what we classically know as Tourette's and and women from the research that I have done, it tends to show up as OCD

Todd McLaughlin: 12:59

interesting. Did so then your your brother kind of paved the way a little bit your parents were hip to this frame of thought? And then like, were you doing certain things that reminded them what your brother was doing? So they're like, well, maybe we should take her to the same person.

Victoria Davis: 13:16

So yeah, so I was a gymnast, when I was a kid, and I would do cartwheels in the hallway, bedroom, deliver him to the kitchen, which is a fun thing to do.

Todd McLaughlin: 13:25

That's what my daughter is doing right now. That's what you're doing right now.

Victoria Davis: 13:30

This was something that I would do obsessively. So I am a lefty in gymnastics, and I would do it on the left. But then I would also have to do it on the right. And if it started to cause a problem when I would run into things, or I would just have to do it no matter who was in the hallway or what was going on. So this is just one clear example that I really remember. Yeah, you know, things needing to be a certain way. I was also very obsessive about appearance. And then when gymnastics got really hard when the backflip started turning into twists started turning into series of things that were really quite terrified. Yeah, I, I coughed a certain way and have to do it a few times, because of the way it felt in my throat. I would take a certain number of steps in different patterns before I was tumbling. I would do things like this. Yes. Very obsessive thinking.

Todd McLaughlin: 14:21

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And then so you haven't found yoga meditation yet? What type of treatments were offered for you at this stage in your life?

Victoria Davis: 14:33

You know, that's a really good question. I, when I was a teenager, I was put, again, I grew up on a farm. Right. So let's say you know what, I don't want to say that the medicine that's available there is antiquated. I don't want to say that. But I think there were a few things that maybe maybe the treatment that I received, maybe weren't So hip to common time. So I was put on a very high dose of antidepressant when I was a teenager. And that I was on for maybe five years until I was 20. And I said, I'm not refusing to take this. And then I came to a point where I was able, but kids brains apps, this specific one, I was taking brain zaps were an issue. And when I was in college, I was a cheerleader. So if I had a brain zap when I'm, you know, two or three humans high,

Todd McLaughlin: 15:24

that's a brain is

Victoria Davis: 15:28

a brain zap is you can imagine if you imagine a film reel, right, where like an old style film reel where the film is rolling, and you see all these different pictures coming through, and then it stops, black happens, and it's almost like it backs up and goes to the top and starts again. Yeah, that's what happens.

Todd McLaughlin: 15:45

That's interesting. Wow. And that was a definite side effect of the antidepressant

Victoria Davis: 15:52

side effect of the specific antidepressant that I was put on at either 15 or 16. When I was struggling with, I mean, not only going through puberty, but also struggling with not knowing what to do not having a proper outlet for these obsessive thoughts and compulsive behaviors. And anyone who really understood that I had access to treatment for these things. You know, I didn't, I wasn't introduced, gymnastics was the closest thing that I had to yoga, until I turned until I moved to New York until I turned 20. Yes. So in line with that, you know, I genuinely genuinely believe that these sorts of, quote, unquote, disordered thinking, which is much more normal than what we consider normal to be, I personally don't think I know anyone who's normal by way of psychological definition. I agree. It was just, there was no kind of observation from my own side that I had developed that would allow me to turn back in and recognize what those things were, what my triggers were, and then also recognize ways to ease myself away from that. Yeah. And that's the one thing that that, you know, in years to come, if, if my children struggle with this, that's the one thing you know, that I think would be the biggest gift that a child who is struggling can be given.

Todd McLaughlin: 17:19

Nice, that makes sense. Is is this type of is is? Are you able to manage it and control it? Is it something that people say you will have your entire life? Is it something that people say you can be cured of it? What is what is the general thought form around? Like the lifespan of this? Is we call this a disease? I mean, it's obsessive compulsive disorder. So I guess it's more of like labeled a disorder versus it's not a disease, I guess. But what what have you learned around this?

Victoria Davis: 17:54

Yeah. So the way I would think about this is, it's a certain way that that neurotransmitters are firing within the brain. That's the way I think about it. You know, now, if there are any PhDs listening to this call, that's incorrect, please feel free to reach out to me on social media or wherever. And let me know that that's actually incorrect. But that's the way I understand it. And if that is true, and this is the reason that I do what I do that I've spent the last 10 plus years doing these things, because it was really when I was in retreat that was very unsuccessful for the wrong. It was successful, it was very difficult for the first time in 2014, that those two primary things that I was mentioning earlier, you know, these terrible thoughts in this having to balance the breath and all of these struggles that were very OCD. Facing, right, that were coming coming into my own mind. That third thing that I mentioned, yeah, to say about meditation was really that learning not only learning how to relax the body, understanding that the exhalation has the ultimate power to release all of these things, doing it enough that it becomes second nature, such that when I walk out of my apartment building, do I know that this door is locked? Do I know my own tendencies? Right? Yeah, that's kind of the wisdom wing of everything we study. Yeah. Do I know what my patterns and tendencies are? Okay, got it. Right now. Also the self compassion aspect of everything we do. The compassion in general aspect of everything we do is what do I need in this moment, to be most happy and most meaningfully successful? For me, walking out of the apartment, that means be fully present. And if there's something on my mind, take a long exhalation, whether it's meditation or leaving the house. long exhalation I say out loud, the door is locked. I move the knob as I need to do if I need to move it back in the other direction. I do it and I'm very present when I do, and then I walk away.

Todd McLaughlin: 20:03

That's really cool that you brought that up. I keep hearing so much about how this longer exhalation than inhalation breath is so pivotal and accessing our parasympathetic nervous system, am I correct? And so I've been, I've been trying to practice with this, like an all sorts of activities, like when I'm walking and I'm getting my heart rate up to even try to do the long slow exhalation then I know this, this, maybe this is a little kind of out there too. But I like to watch like how fast my heart is beating on my watch. And then like, try to like manipulate my heart rate with that breath and explore, experiment with it. It's so interesting. I love that you brought that up, like go into the door. long exhale.

Unknown: 20:45

About to lock the door. Exactly, yeah, yeah,

Victoria Davis: 20:49

if we think about. So this was what I really took away. Not having studied anything necessarily biological when I was in school, right? Or not studying anything necessarily neurological. I studied Media Studies and linguistics. And that, so got me interested in the way the mind processes information. Wow. Right. So looking at that, then if I started realizing and understanding that the exhalation was the ultimate release, beginning to understand a little bit about the nervous system, the parasympathetic system, that can be activated by deep belly breathing, when your exhalation is longer than your inhale, right? Because if a bear is chasing, you're not going to take a long breath out, you're gonna take a long breath and hold it. So you can run. Right? Yeah. So if we activate our parasympathetic system, that means we are down throttling, we're deactivating our sympathetic system, which tells us we need to go Go, go, go go. So the mind whether it's physically threatened or not, that is always go go. Go, go, go go going. What is activated?

Todd McLaughlin: 21:55

Yeah. Isn't it crazy? It's just so simple. It's just like one breath in one breath out. And then boom, you're like, in a whole different frame of mind. Yeah, yeah.

Victoria Davis: 22:05

That we must develop. Well, I knew for myself that I must develop the attentional capacity, by way a bit big level awareness, global awareness. What's about to come at me? Am I freaking? Because when we're in freakout mode, we don't we don't often have that little grandma like boys or motherly boys saying, Okay, now just take a long breath.

Unknown: 22:29

Work in Yes. Yeah.

Victoria Davis: 22:32

So that repetition. Where's that exhale? Where's that exhale, making that second nature, that's when I really started to connect, there has to be some relationship. Now I to date have not necessarily heard these connections in the way that I have felt them and I believe to be true. Between obsessive compulsive disorder, the activation, the activation of the autonomic nervous system, which I know has to be in there, because we're also talking about neurotransmitters and hormones. Right? So all of these things, by sheer logic, intuition was the inception of it. But then by sheer logic, I find the absolute support that if we can gain the ability to ease ease, ease systematically, and activate the parasympathetic system, that it can only have a positive result on disorders that are or are similar to obsessive compulsiveness because we're naturally our baseline is way more fluid way more easy, way more flowing.

Todd McLaughlin: 23:33

Yeah. Well said, you know, I found your website and it's at wellspring. mind.com. And I was impressed by it. Because when I went on it, I noticed that, like, it seems like a collaborative and or corporate group and it looks like you're promoting massage therapy, and mindfulness yoga breathing. Can you give me the full answer to what is it that you do Victoria? Like? What is your what is your job?

Victoria Davis: 24:10

Great question. Great question. So essentially, I'm a teacher and I founded Wellspring mind. Cool. So what I myself do, the way I kind of encapsulate the way that I teach is I work with meditation, mind training and movement practices to genuinely help cultivate and maintain genuine happiness. So we're looking to foster that sense of genuine happiness. We have to understand what it is. And then once we feel it, we're working to maintain cool, shedding like trimming the fat this idea Yeah, you know what to add and what to give up? Yeah. And then Wellspring mind was initially was initially founded with the idea of providing meditation to office spaces, and this was in 2019. So before the pandemic, after the pandemic, yeah, I'm seeing that people are and companies are requesting a broader scope. Have stuff, right, a broader scope, scope of healing modalities. And being in this space for as long as I have, I have many, many friends who are in various modalities. So from that that's where this Wellspring collective idea comes in. Where Yes, we do offer massage because there's someone in this group that is an amazing Mazouz we I have more than one of those, right? And then things like nutrition i or Vedic nutrition, that sort of counseling, holistic aspects to most things that you can think of whether that's dance yoga, movement, massage, I take over predominantly when it comes to mind training and meditative practices.

Todd McLaughlin: 25:37

Cool. Are you physically going into office spaces in New York City and teaching? Are you also implementing teaching over zoom? Or D all the above? All the above? Got it? Have you ever walked into a corporate environment to teach something like mindfulness and faced a group that seemed not really excited about the fact that maybe their employer is wanting them to do this?

Victoria Davis: 26:07

Yes. So very often, when I walk into a space, when I walk into more of an office oriented space, there will be a combination of living beings, right?

Todd McLaughlin: 26:19

That's a nice way to say, diversity.

Victoria Davis: 26:22

Yeah, absolutely. But also diversity, what I'm speaking of here predominantly is diversity of intention, right? Some who have meditated and who are just out kind of questioning my chops, which I totally welcome. And some so from the intermediate advanced to the absolute beginner to me, I'm only here because this is my break. Right? And everything in between. So then my task, which I love, throw me a curveball, throw me three. Let's see how I do. Right? Because that's how we know it when the practice is working. It's so ingrained in the bones that you can ask me, whatever. And I'm able to then respond, even if I don't know the answer. Yeah, right. Yeah. Now I get to observe the way that my own mind is working. When these curveballs and fast balls come in.

Todd McLaughlin: 27:09

Yes. That's cool that I believe that. Have you witnessed some transformation experiences coming in and seeing you know, people are like a little bit like, Oh, why am I doing this? I don't want to have to do this. Yeah. Afterward, they come up to you and say, I can't believe that actually worked.

Victoria Davis: 27:23

Absolutely, yeah, my, my favorite one, this was this was a very early response, a woman who she was an editor for The Economist, something like this. And she said, she mentioned to me that after our practice, she slept like a baby slept for 10 hours at night for the first time. And I don't know how long it had been, you know, and that was the first time I had received that sort of specific response. I was like, Yeah, you know, this is amazing. Because oftentimes, the way that I teach, I do my absolute best to make very clear why we're doing this, this isn't just kind of like a fluff addition to, you know, instead of, instead of making yourself a salad in the kitchen, you're going to instead come in and come here and sit because it's like an equal sort of break. Yeah, go make yourself a salad in the kitchen. But also, we're not just here, to kind of like stir. Once they stir the pot, we're not just here to kind of like, paint a pretty picture that you can hang on your wall, we're here for you to hat for me to hopefully impart some sort of understanding that you're able to take back to your desk and into your life with you, where you understand that when your own mind really starts to roll into rattle, you have all the tools, you need to exhale to full release, ground yourself, find your breath, and return to whatever it was that you needed to accomplish, whether that's writing a proposal or going to sleep, because the way to get there, whether it's absolute relaxation, or single pointed, pointed concentration at the same beginning steps. And so that's what I really tried to focus on. And oftentimes, I hope, i It seems that that's really what brings people in presenting this information. So simply, even if you've been meditating for ages, you may not have heard this sort of simple rhetoric, because it is simple. It's just a matter of remembering to do it, knowing that it's available to you in this way.

Todd McLaughlin: 29:22

Great point. Isn't that a neat transition where you start to study learn these things, and it seems so foreign and almost like mystical and or impossible and then it takes years and years and years and eventually hit this point where like, you actually start to remember it, and you actually start to practice it. I don't know, I found I've had this little progress thing of like, almost like watching myself doing it versus actually doing it. You know what I mean? Like, observing myself as like, oh, you're a yoga practitioner to where like, I'm actually practicing yoga right now. You know? Yeah, it's a neat transition.

Victoria Davis: 29:59

Absolutely. Absolutely. And so much of that comes into this idea of what is our what is our awareness capacity? Right and what is our motivation? Am I doing this for a clear objective? Right? Do I have a goal? Amil practitioner? I want to be the best or is it I'm practicing to feel I'm regaining my friendship with myself through this capacity of feeling of existing of being

Todd McLaughlin: 30:24

Yes. You know, growing up, I grew up here in Florida is pretty quiet, there wasn't a lot going on, not in a city. And when I looked to New York City, it just seemed like, well, everything is going on in New York City, I didn't actually get to get to New York City until I was 18, I believe was the first time I went. And so I was blown away. I'll never forget the first time being in a taxi cab looking up at the buildings and how tall they were on these little streets and just being like, wow, you know, like, this is it. I've heard about this. It's so big and just enormous and, and then having a little bit of the theory of that, like, you know, the city is just chaos. And it's not possible to find calm and peace in a city, you would need to be like a yogi out in a cave, somewhere out in the country, which, and you've had the chance to juxtaposition life, both growing up in the country and knowing what that's like and also growing up in the country pre the iPhone, because I was like when the more I look back at like, where big changes happen is like iPhone six, I remember before I had iPhone, I was like, looking at people that had it and go on, I don't really need that, you know, and now that I have when I like frickin live on this thing, like, I can't imagine life without this thing, you know? So I'm curious what your thoughts are now living in New York living in the city? And like, what do you think? Is it possible to live a really happy, peaceful life in a very chaotic, busy environment?

Victoria Davis: 31:48

The answer to that question is yes. Okay. Cool. Surely by by definition, yes. And yes. And the reason for the Yes, is because the mind is primary in everything in every instance, in, in every environment that we are, no matter what's coming at us, as long as we always stay close to the absolute understanding that I have the full power to shift my own experience. Because I can change my mind. You know, we can call it reframing, or we can just call it we can call it radical acceptance. Yeah. Right. You know, I was, I've been talking recently about surrendering. And I much prefer the term radical acceptance over this idea of surrendering because when we surrender, it really feels like or it seems like by way of its semantics, that definition, it seems like something's coming at us. radical acceptance in itself. It's my choice. Yeah. And really, that's what we're looking at. Every minute of every day. When a radically obsessive thought comes into my mind. That seems like there wasn't a choice behind it. What I do have choice in is my behavior. Do I breathe before I feel like I'm forced to act? Right when I hear all of these sounds coming through? Do I feel anger rising? I don't do well with human made sounds. So that's anyone who knows me? Well.

Todd McLaughlin: 33:12

First, human like like burps and chewing noises and

Victoria Davis: 33:16

more like construction. Unnecessary screaming got a guy that I find to be if someone's not in danger, don't honk.

Unknown: 33:24

Yeah. Yeah. So like, Bert, so like, you know, fair enough.

Victoria Davis: 33:29

Right, but when it's when it's noise that I think is wildly unnecessary. Yes. That really irks my entire being. So that's an opportunity to say, Okay, what's happening? Why am I feeling so sensitive to this? Even without digging into that and getting discursive about it? There's the opportunity to what did we say before? Release it, relax, let it go to the best of my ability, because when that anger rises, when that heat really starts to swell, what's happening? Yeah, right. What's happening to the nervous system? Yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 34:07

good point.

Victoria Davis: 34:08

What's the Rente? Yeah, exactly.

Todd McLaughlin: 34:11

Great. Oh,

Victoria Davis: 34:12

let's be and if you can change it, change it. You don't like where you live? If there's a jackhammer, operating right outside your window and your bathroom feels like a sanctuary go work from your bathroom.

Todd McLaughlin: 34:26

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What have you found then in relation when you look back to country life and or when you go back to the country because I often hear people that grow up in a very bustling, exciting environment like New York, they go to the country they go, Oh my gosh, like, either A, this is so peaceful or be I tell them to go mad. It's so quiet.

Victoria Davis: 34:47

Yeah, I'm definitely I'm not wanting to go mad. So I am. It's been very clear to me. I moved back to New York City about six years ago. So You're seven years ago, I lived in Australia for quite a long time

Todd McLaughlin: 35:02

called me to wear in Australia. That was in Melbourne. Nice. That was in Western Australia, New south of Perth in Margaret River. Nice. Cool. Cool. Well, I'll question more about Australia let you finish your your subject that what you're gonna say?

Victoria Davis: 35:15

Yeah, yeah. So then from there, I moved to California. And I was very, I was able to be very close to the Pacific Ocean. And that was so cathartic and healing. And there was something in me there was a call that that had to do with one of my teachers had to do with Sri Dharma Mitra I, there was some sense he was he was having to give up his last studio. And it seemed like his time teaching was, was going to be potentially limited he's at for now. And then I thought, Okay, I have to go back. And I just kept, I was on retreat back on the East Coast. And I got this calling, it was like, you have to move back. It's time. And I know for me, and I don't regret this, I really met my partner two years ago who I initially met 14 years ago, you know, and that wouldn't have happened had I not move back to the city. So this calling for me to be here now, is what I'm listening to. And if I had the opportunity to spend half my time in a cabin, upstate or in the Berkshires, or most anywhere in rural Massachusetts, that's where I would be for three and a half days out of the week. Yeah. So that said, I love silence, I also understand the Absolute the potential, the skillful intent, like the reason to be in an urban space, it's so it tests everything we work on, on the mat and on the cushion. It's such a wonderful test. And it's an opportunity to show up for people who have not had the opportunities that you and I have people who haven't been exposed to these teachings and these ways of thinking,

Todd McLaughlin: 36:52

yeah, great point. What attracts you to the Buddhist style of meditation as opposed to other meditation techniques you probably have explored over the years.

Victoria Davis: 37:07

Yeah, so that's a great question. So this is I had the, the immense fortune of meeting my heart teacher within maybe six months of, of starting to meditate, which which doesn't happen for everyone. So if you're listening, and you feel like you just haven't met that teacher who really, really, really, really, really moves you. my strong suggestion is just patience. Because when you are ready, that teacher will just show up. And I think at that time, I had been trying so long it things that didn't work, you know, different relationships, you know, different pharmaceuticals, and ones that are less legal and geographical changing, and, you know, kind of like Job shifts and mind shifts and trying so many things. But what I was really looking for what I really needed was someone to teach me how to attend my attentional capacity was on the floor. I was so distracted and disruptively distracted, basically all the time, that what I knew that I needed, I Well, I didn't know I needed it until it was presented to me, if we don't have the ability to harness our own minds, capacity to focus on something which requires relaxation, which so many of us need to learn, then I wasn't going to get very far at all. We have to learn to relax. And then from there, we have to learn to focus, and then we can basically do anything. And I had a teacher show me that now. almost 12 years later, I guess 11 years later, I'm seeing that, that teaching in the way that I received it is quite rare, even on the path that I'm on and with teachers that I've experienced, so much of it is just do this and trust it do this and it'll work. The the path that was presented to me was and this is why i i am so drawn to the Buddhist path is because there's very little basically nothing that says it's this way just go do it. It's so much more this idea of there's there's this there's this phrase in Buddhism that goes cut it rabbit burn it, because in traditional India, this is the way you knew gold was gold. Right? Cut it, is it still gold rabbit? Does it come off on your hand? Right? Is it still gold? Burn it? Does it burn like gold? Put this to the test of your own experience? And then via your own experience? Is this valid? Does this function is this true? Don't trust me. You can take my word for now in so much is that it allows you to go try these things on your own. And that was what was really important to me. It's not dogmatic. It's give this a go see if it works for

Todd McLaughlin: 39:54

you. Yeah, that's a great answer. I would agree. That's what makes me really attracted to Buddha Uh, ideas Buddha thinking, it's amazing, isn't it? Yes. So amazing what other Buddha idea philosophy Have you just been like? Yes.

Victoria Davis: 40:13

So this this other concept of this the sheer idea of looking at the path, as the two wings on a bird, wisdom and compassion, the wisdom is beginning to understand that there is a cause and effect to everything, self compassion, even recognizing our own patterns falls into that way, right? Gain clear understanding here, and I'm pointing to myself, getting clear understanding of what happens in what works within and for this container of my own body speech in mind, and then compassionately apply that to everything else. Because everyone is in the same boat, as I am. Everyone, all of us long for genuine happiness, and its causes long to be free of suffering and its causes. And if I'm able to rejoice in the goodness of someone else, and understand that in every environment, and every opportunity, whether I hate it or love it, if I'm able to begin to approach that with equanimity, with the sense of radical indifference, this is fine. Because my mind is primary and I am fine, then that might just be the road to genuine happiness.

Todd McLaughlin: 41:22

Wow, that's a great little nugget. You're well spoken, you do a great job of conveying your ideas. Well done. Victoria. Are you? What are you reading these days? Do you have anything good to recommend?

Victoria Davis: 41:38

I do so something that I am working on working with now there are two texts that for the last many months have been going back and forth between and one has to do primarily with trauma. So the Body Keeps the Score is attacks that has been very telling for me? Yes. So many of us have lowercase t and big uppercase t traumas that we're working with. Right. And so I know that you you mentioned that you've read it before, right? Yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 42:11

I just finished it yesterday.

Unknown: 42:13

Yeah, just finish it yesterday.

Todd McLaughlin: 42:15

Finish it last night. Oh, my gosh. And I, you know, in our family, we have a dog. So you know, when it's the final, we call it the final piddle. You know, like Whose turn is it to actually take her for the final walk. And I had 16 minutes left on my audiobook and I jumped up, I was like me, I have time. So I could like put my earphones in and finally finish and listen to the end. And I mean, I just I just it's it was again, it's been a game changer for me to go through this one. That's so cool. Um, I'm happy you've experienced it. What's, uh, I think you said you're still working on it. But what type of insight Have you had just looking back on your life? And have you had any? Have you have you have you? Have you had any insights of I don't look at myself like I've experienced trauma, and then gone. Oh, wait, maybe I have. Did you have any of those while you're reading it? Like?

Victoria Davis: 43:08

Yeah, so there were quite a few. So many.

Todd McLaughlin: 43:14

I came to this book with a lot of trauma. I knew I had a lot of trauma. There was no, yeah, okay.

Victoria Davis: 43:20

So, in my, in my circumstance, I had a really bad experience at the end of my freshman year in college. And that radically shifted my entire way of dealing with at least half of the population and dealing with myself and understanding how to work with my own emotions and the trust when I needed help. It didn't show up then. And that for me was was very difficult, because also I didn't have these didn't have the skills of looking at my own mind and understanding that emotions are not me. It's just something that's going on right now. And I have the ability to shift that.

Todd McLaughlin: 43:59

Nice. That's the key. Oh, I'm listening.

Victoria Davis: 44:10

Here, we'll come back. There was just a siren that was

Todd McLaughlin: 44:13

I thought you were telling me like, Wait, pause. Todd. Drastic Pause, pause, listen and listen to how's your heart feel?

Victoria Davis: 44:21

Yeah, so what kind of understanding as well, you know, I love that we're talking about trauma, and then I just stopped.

Todd McLaughlin: 44:30

You left me hanging. Yeah,

Victoria Davis: 44:33

that's kind of the way that the book felt like, it really didn't leave me hanging. Right. It was just more of a recognition of so many of us are in the same boat. Yeah, you know, from from children to to 95 year olds. Right. When we dealt with something that doesn't leave that we feel like it's presently activated so often all the time until we we learn how to let that thing come up so we can finally coming out, you know, these alternative modalities are phenomenal at allowing ourselves to recognize and observe without making that this thing that is me.

Todd McLaughlin: 45:14

Yes. Good summary. Well done. Your second book.

Victoria Davis: 45:20

Yes. So that one I have right next to me that one is called cutting through spiritual materialism. Oh, yeah. And this one is by Tolkien Trungpa. This, this has been a phenomenal read. And because it's really this idea of, why am I practicing spirituality, whether I'm meditating standing in my head for five days, or I'm becoming an ascetic, and I'm eating six grains of rice a day. Why am I doing this? If it's for an ultimate goal? Why am I seeking a teacher? Is it because I want their knowledge? Because I want to feel special? Right? What am I really working for? Do I want to blast through something? Or am I just looking, not even looking to am I just here to radically accept is there it's this idea this the way that I'm receiving it, this idea that all of these objectives are so linear, right, the more accomplished mindset we are in, the more difficult it is going to be to really make progress on a spiritual path. Because the more we released, the more we're able to genuinely open. And from that space of true expansiveness, that this openness, that's what allows us to expand. And that's what allows us to receive, and that's what allows us to be these open vessels that are able to do be everything.

Todd McLaughlin: 46:40

Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up. Because I did start that one. And my pile is large, and I think it got put on the pile and I haven't finished so I'm gonna, I'm gonna finish this one and come back to you with with a couple of questions. Yeah.

Victoria Davis: 46:55

Yeah, you know, Todd, I have to say it's such. It's such a simple read, you know, and it Tibetans tend to be really learned Tibetans, especially for a very long time. He's a Rinpoche, he passed a couple of decades ago. And he has a way of speaking, that is just so clear. So direct, this is what it is. Think about this. Here's a good example. Ask me a

Todd McLaughlin: 47:21

question. Yeah. Amazing. I don't want to take you down a sad or negative path. But I'm curious, how do you reconcile these days, the challenge that we face as practitioners with the pedestal, and the falling of the guru, and the, you know, like, holding people to a high esteem and then finding out, they're human, and they're made a lot of mistakes, and hurt a lot of people, perhaps sexually, mentally, physically, verbally? How do you process that these days? What are you thinking about?

Victoria Davis: 47:58

Yeah, that's another great question. So oftentimes, when I feel disappointment, right, I take it back to this wisdom wing, anything that I am experiencing, is the result of something that I have planted. If I feel disappointment, which is the only thing I can work with, then I can look at where, how and where I've disappointed others, I can assume, without knowing how someone else's mindstream is working, I can make an assumption that whomever else is in pain, I can I can make an assumption based upon my own pain, what they might be feeling, right, if I've experienced something similar, and with the biggest heart that I can possibly offer, I feel compassion for them. And for the teacher, and for the guru, and for the pedestal, former pedestal holder that is, at least, if not seemingly lower standing that I am right now. And I'm just using myself as an example. This is only for stories sake for this line of conversation, right? So where I'm going with that is, it comes back for me to this idea, this understanding of cause and effect. Anything that I am feeling is something that I've planted. And that doesn't mean I deserve it. Right? That doesn't mean anyone deserves anything bad to ever happen to them at all. Also, it allows for this, it's this idea again, of radical acceptance, what is going on, which then allows me to look at my own behavior, maybe not even in this scenario, maybe with other people, right? Have I been deceptive? Where have I done something that I might not appreciate? So how do I deal with it as a teacher, I don't ask anyone to trust or just take for granted anything I say, if anyone feels uncomfortable by something, hopefully at the end of the lecture, then they bring it up and I welcome that. Right. And for questions like that, for questions like you know, The recent, the recent debacle with His Holiness with the Dalai Lama, right, I got a few questions on that. Well, how do you make sense of this?

Todd McLaughlin: 50:08

Can you explain that one? I haven't heard that one yet. Um,

Victoria Davis: 50:12

I didn't look too much into it. There was something about he was talking to a young boy in very close proximity, touched his face in a way, right? That's right, that being having been in the presence of His Holiness a couple of times, and and just this is what I would call intelligent faith, from my side, understanding how playful of a living being he is. You know, that is that one that I would say knocks them off the pedestal, no, but I would say may not have been the most skillful, given, given the environment that you're mentioning, you know, quite aptly that we do live in where gurus or people who are perceived to be like great teachers are harming people. Right? Or at least that's the way it appears to us. Again, I'm not saying that anyone is, is speaking untruths, because I believe that if they said that this person harmed me, I believe that to have been true. And if that's the way that they experienced it, it's only appropriate to have compassion. I also believe it's appropriate to have compassion for the teacher who has wronged for the teacher, who maybe didn't recognize that they were wronging at the time, who probably now understands that whatever they chose was not the best thing to do, or the best way to go about something. So that's kind of a long road answer.

Todd McLaughlin: 51:34

Oh, goodness, that took practice forgiveness, compassion.

Victoria Davis: 51:39

And, yeah, I really tried to give people the benefit of the doubt, even in the worst worst cases, because at the time that we, quote, unquote, do something that right at the time when we are acting without virtue, meaning maliciously or intentionally, poorly. That's only the beginning of our suffering, because we're going to feel like I'm back to.

Todd McLaughlin: 52:02

Yeah. That's really good answer. It's a lot to think about. But in a good way. I think you're right. I mean, because it's easy. You know, I guess, going back to the idea of trauma, and then looking back at generational trauma, and then, you know, if we start if we experience something from somebody that's traumatic, but then we look back at what their past was like, and how they were treated, and you start to see that, you know, some of these things we've, we've learned and other things, we've like, maybe we're just going in the wrong direction, and we explored the wrong direction or whatever. But you're right to be able to look at someone and say, well, hmm, I wonder what happened in their life that caused them to do that. I wonder, you know, what's, how are they treated, and that does help me build a little more compassionate situations versus that, you know, thrown to the fire, you know, you don't

Victoria Davis: 52:55

talk I was even going in the forward thought of that it's beautiful, the ability to look back, you know, and say, you know, they must have, they must have, the way that I'm looking at it is more, this is only the beginning of their suffering, if they're intentionally causing suffering unto someone else. Yeah, they probably have undergone bad things. And this is not the end of their suffering. And they have caused that into me or someone else, they're gonna have to receive it again. Because that in my understanding of the way that things work, that's the cause and effect I'm talking about. And it's not like thrown to the fire, you know, they deserve to burn. It's not that either. It's just with a strong understanding, or the belief that if I'm intentionally doing something bad to you, something bad's gonna come back to me.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:43

Yeah. Trusting in the cause and effect, trusting in cause and effect that we've got to get past it with the good stuff. What's the last good stuff test you've performed?

Victoria Davis: 54:00

There's a practice that I love, love, love, love, love. That was brought to me years ago, I believe it's labeled as coffee meditation, which is kind of funny. It's

Unknown: 54:08

offering coffee or coffee, coffee, coffee, coffee. I like that.

Victoria Davis: 54:12

All right. Yeah. Which is kind of funny because it's done. If that's what it's called. I hope it is. It's done before you go to sleep. Just a remembering of your day. have three great things you did during the day. And when I say great, I mean a virtuous intent. Right? altruistic, not thinking of yourself, whether you very kindly or even just with 50 cents tip your barista in the morning. If you held the door for a woman with a stroller if you smiled at someone walking across the street, right, as massive or as minimal as that thing may have been bring those to your own mind before you go to sleep. So what were good things that I did today. Oh, just walking back here. This morning. I was admiring some as A woman was walking away, I turned back to admire what she was wearing. And she turned and looked at me right when I did it. And so I just smiled at her. And she smiled back. I was like, Oh, that was pleasant.

Unknown: 55:09

Yeah, no. Yeah.

Victoria Davis: 55:11

Now probably won't come to mind when I, before I go to sleep tonight, but that was something that just occurred,

Todd McLaughlin: 55:16

you know, isn't amazing isn't amazing these interactions that we have with our fellow species that, like what we're reading, were the, our ability to pick up on I've moved met sound quality, simple shifts, like the facial expression, a subtle turn, a ship all this communication that's going on that it's like below the surface, but it's almost louder than Hi, how are you? You know?

Victoria Davis: 55:45

Or you know what Todd even saying? Also on that, that walk, I asked my UPS driver, how he was doing, he was like, Oh, I've been away for three weeks. Because he genuinely knew that, like I stopped walking. And so he was right. How long does that take out of our day? Yeah, somewhere between 13 and 43 seconds. When you ask someone how they're doing? Yeah, see the eye contact, just like you were saying, might give you a real answer. Be what they need for their day.

Todd McLaughlin: 56:17

Yeah. It's so cool. It's so cool. I love it. Yeah. Australia, why did you go to Australia?

Victoria Davis: 56:29

Initially, I just had the opportunity. So there was someone I was seeing that was out there. And I could also spend almost a year at university cool. And pay was the same because I attended the University of Illinois. And then I also went to the University of Melbourne, in Australia. And very cool. Were great for linguistics and radical feminism. And that's what I was on that awesome. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 56:51

What did you think about the all the cool slang that goes down there in terms of English language, like sometimes, like, I love Australian slang, I think it's so fun to slowly start to figure it out, and then even throw back a little bit into the culture and then have them laugh at me because I sound you know. So what I found interesting is that when I lived in Western Australia, my nickname was Seppo. Septic Tank Yank. So, hey, Seppo. So and what's an interesting element of Australian culture? And this is World chlobo culture on Australia. But is that like, if somewhat, they take a dig on you, and see how you'd respond? And if I just smiled and said, I'm doing good. They're like, cool, let's hang out. But if I got angry that you're calling me this derogatory term, then that was a setup for All right, well, let's go, you know, and so, you know, just that process of like, yeah, you can call me whatever you want. You know, it's no problem. It's cool. I think that's funny. That's actually hilarious. You know, I'm going to use that. And so um, what what is what was your experience with that particular element in that culture?

Victoria Davis: 58:00

So I have a very adaptable personality. So things like picking up accents are decently easy, whether it's because I studied linguistics, or just because it's an aspect of a Gemini personality. I'm not sure which, but quite quickly, I intentionally developed the Australian accent in a way that people didn't know I was American.

Todd McLaughlin: 58:21

Nice, nice. Blend. So you took the chameleon.

Victoria Davis: 58:26

So in that, you know, there was there was one specific time when I was out with a close girlfriend, who was Australian, and she just mentioned that I had a really good American accent that I did American really well. And there was one person that didn't believe that he told me that the American accent needed some work. I was like, Yeah, you know, you're right. Hollywood only does so much. Really. It's not that good.

Todd McLaughlin: 58:48

Oh, good point, Hollywood. I mean, I remember at that time, too, I was like, traveling internationally. And a lot of people said, Todd, you should put either a Canadian or Australian flag on your backpack, you know, you'll be received a lot better. And, and I always had this like, this little, you know, I think what's for all you Americans listening? We need to, at least in my opinion, so you don't have to take this too far if you don't want, but we need to look at the world from other people's eyes. You know, and I think we do do a good job of that some cases. In some cases, we don't. But I mean, that's why I know it is a privilege to be able to travel. So for me to say, Here, just go travel the world and see how the world sees us from another culture. I mean, that's a privilege and a very expensive one to be able to do that. So I I know that that might not be the best advice. But I do think that I gained so much from seeing what I look like from the other side of the world. And I learned a lot. But at the same time, I would still be American. You know, like, I know, you might not like me for certain reasons. And the stereotype that was held of us I mean, one of the things I heard a lot in Australia is like you America because it is so loud and noisy like you come in, and you just expect that we should just serve you. You don't even try to speak our language. You just start rapping off English right off the bat, you don't even actually inquire. Do you speak English? Did you hear this? Well, this was just trotting around in Australia. I mean, I also came across this. And I remember the first time I landed in India, and again, I, I won't even I so try to stay away from politics. I won't even say what president's face was on the billboard that I saw. But I remember when I landed in Mumbai, there was a poster on the wall that had the president's head on it with a target symbol on it. I was like, oh, boy, this is heavy. And then when we first went to our first hotel in Mumbai, they said, We need to see your passports, and I handed my American passport over and they're like, they use the president's name at the time. Ah, you're one of those people. And I was like, bro, I didn't even vote that year. Like, I don't even I'm not into it. I don't even know. And it was like heavy. Like, I just felt that kind of anti sentiment. And so I don't know, but that's good. I think it was good for me to feel that to kind of not just think everybody loves me. I'm so awesome. What do you think?

Victoria Davis: 1:01:13

I that, you know, it's interesting. Bringing that question up, because I have kind of made a point. This dip in, dip out Australian is my my most go to accent. Like, I'll even find that if I'm asking something annoying, like to a server in a restaurant. Or if I have to ask something again, or if I feel like, you know, or I know you're not going to see me again. And you're probably not going to like what I say I say it in an Australian accent. And it's so much better received or the overall. And

Todd McLaughlin: 1:01:48

that's just simply changing your accent. Even in the States, you'll just switch this giant accent. Yeah. And the person will like all century a little differently. A little different,

Victoria Davis: 1:01:59

right? Because there is Australian culture, it has this very general and genuine kind of no worries night. Yeah. Oh, good. Oh, no frets, oh, good, right. It's just kind of this no problem mentality. And so when you're asking me kind of what I think of what it's like to be American, when I travel, if I'm alone, when I travel, more often than not, I'm going to be Australian, because I think that there, I just tried to avoid all the stereotypes because I grew up in a very different political and environmental space than I live now. Right, I grew up in a very red space. And I currently live in a very blue space. And that my own mentality kind of, I've been able to experience in very close proximity, what what those those minds on average, the general mind have a deep red and a deep blue person kind of the way, the way that we act, and it's very different. So I think also it kind of, in order to avoid a little too much of that of that labeling, I choose something that is an an accent, something that's very widely well received, or something that's more global, where you can't really tell where I'm from, because I think you're right, going into spaces and just accepting whatever is, is skillful as a woman, when I travel alone, I don't want any sort of judgment or stereotype to come at me where someone feels like they know me from something that isn't me. So that's at speaking to you as a woman, right? So that having traveled alone quite a lot, I think that's a large part of the reason that I act in that way. And when I'm not traveling alone, and when I am being American, I am very mindful of all the things that you mentioned, this idea of, if you're going to spend two weeks in France, please spend at least two weeks learning some French, if you're going to go through Italy, even if it's for five days, please at least spend five hours trying to learn Italian, you know, just choose even like even in countries that are more difficult, right? If you're going to Thailand, or you're going to Cambodia, if you're going to China, just make an effort, make if you're going to Indonesia, just learn how to say hello, thank you and I don't speak Indonesian, right? Learn how to say something, because I think the stereotype that you're talking about is unfortunately real. And just because we tend to believe in the US or it's been reported so often that we are the greatest nation in the country. Not everybody is going to think no, so what's the best way to last through a stereotype if you're not going to master eight different accents and choose to change who you are, which is not the best way to do it, but it's the way that I seem to have been doing it. Right. The best way to do it is probably to accept other people for who they are and show them you care by putting in a little bit of time.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:04:57

Yeah. Beautiful. Ah, words of wisdom. Thank you, Victoria. I don't know if it's wise, but those are definitely good point. Yeah, there's some words. I know, it seems like a fairly decent formula to put into the equation today. Mm hmm. Man, well, I could keep going Ken, would you be willing to be come back as a guest again in the future? Because I really enjoyed talking with you. I love your your enthusiasm. I love that when you emailed you said, yes, let's just get some positivity out into the world. And I've, if anything, we said in some way, shape or form didn't feel positive. I feel our intention is toward positivity. So hopefully, hopefully, that will be felt. Hopefully that will be

Victoria Davis: 1:05:48

understanding. Yeah, genuinely, if anyone listening, you know, going back to this idea of throw me a curveball, if anyone listening really does feel that, you know, something was off with what was said, or it really wasn't positive or didn't land in a way that will lead to that. I'd love to know. Yeah. And I would love to come back as a guest. And if that is the case, if we do get any of that, I would love to have that conversation. Yeah. Because it's an important one to have the idea of meeting people where they are and meeting ourselves where we are. That's the only way we can start moving. Yeah, right. That's the only way we can really get anywhere. Even if the getting is just being greater understanding. Right, we have to know where we are. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:06:27

Cool. And you know, it's also cool, Victoria, I think that usually if someone even got to the point in this episode, listening, like if someone takes an entire hour to listen to a conversation, that's like one of the most ultimate forms of appreciation, I felt like when someone actually listens to an episode, and they send me an email, they say, Victoria was great. Or any little response, like, loved it, thank you. And to think that someone actually took a whole hour just to listen to us. Like, that's pretty amazing. And so if you are still listening, we do appreciate you. Thank you. Yeah, it's a cool thing. Is there anything else Victoria before we close that you would enjoy sharing or would feel compelled to share or want to share?

Victoria Davis: 1:07:17

And I appreciate you, you know, I think one of the greatest gifts that any of us can can offer to others is recognizing what feels most truthful and meaningful to us in our form of expression. And then just doing it, you know, and and you have a voice to share. And I feel honored that you reached out and you asked me to be a part of it, and just absolute appreciation to you and and to all the listeners both not only for listening, but also for encouraged, for sake of encouragement to do what makes them do what makes you feel amazing. And then even setting the intention before you do it of hoping everyone is able to do this, hoping everyone has the resources to get to the point where they are able to express in a way that feels most genuine and authentic to them. And that's when I'm honoring and appreciating. Thank you.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:08:12

Perfect conclusion. Thanks. Thanks, Victoria. Thank you so much Tom. Native yoga Todd cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time.

Unknown: 1:09:14

Well, yeah,