Athena Vaughn - Surviving Trauma And Finding Recovery

I am grateful for the opportunity to introduce you to Athena Vaughn. This episode is titled Surviving Trauma and Finding Recovery. Athena was kind and brave enough to share her story with me. I'd like to offer a trigger warning as some of the stories she shares may be challenging to hear. Her ability to speak her story with such clarity is a true gift. She believes that by sharing her experiences it can help others and I agree. :)

Find Athena on her Instagram at: @authenticallyathenaslc
You can also find her on her website at: https://authenticallyathenaslc.squarespace.com/

Some of the topics we discuss during this conversation are:

• The difference is between CPTSD and PTSD. 
• What is Kundalini yoga? 
• The transition to a safe place. 
• How Athena has learned to heal her traumatic experiences?
• How to deal with trauma in yoga? 
• Where do we draw the line between trauma and illness? 
• Sharing her own story.  

Thanks for listening to this episode. Check out: 👇
Free Grow Your Yoga Live Webinar - Every Thursday at 12pm EST
➡️ Click here to receive link

New Student FREE Livestream Yoga Special ~ Try 2 Weeks of Free Unlimited Livestream Yoga Classes  at Native Yoga Center. info.nativeyogacenter.com/livestream Sign into the classes you would like to take and you will receive an email 30 minutes prior to join on Zoom. The class is recorded and uploaded to nativeyogaonline.com  ➡️  Click Here to Join.

Practice to a New Yoga Class every day with our nativeyogaonline.com course called Today's Community Class with code FIRSTMONTHFREE.

Native Yoga Teacher Training 2024- In Studio and Livestream - for info delivered to your email click this link here: ➡️ https://info.nativeyogacenter.com/native-yoga-teacher-training-2023/

Subscribe to Native Yoga Center and view this podcast on Youtube.

Thank you Bryce Allyn for the show tunes. Check out Bryce's website: bryceallynband.com and sign up on his newsletter to stay in touch. Listen here to his original music from his bands Boxelder, B-Liminal and Bryce Allyn Band on Spotify.

Please email special requests and feedback to info@nativeyogacenter.com

Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast today I bring Athena Vaughn on to the channel. I do want to offer a trigger warning. Athena does speak about traumatic experiences that she has had in her life and also about how yoga has helped her heal. And you can find Athena on Instagram, it's at @authenticallyathenaslc. And you're gonna see that link in the show notes below. And also, you will see her website too. I think that she's going to explain everything. And thank you Athena for coming on being so honest. And the clarity that you share in telling your story is just amazing. And I feel honored that you felt safe enough to share this with with us. Let's begin. I'm so happy to have Athena Vaughn here today on the podcast. Athena, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you doing?

Athena Vaughn: 2:09

Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing really well. We just moved to a new state. So we're getting everything set up. Yeah. How are you doing?

Todd McLaughlin: 2:19

Very good. Thank you. Do you mind if I ask where you moved from and where you move to?

Athena Vaughn: 2:25

Yes, so I lived in Utah. My entire life and we just moved up to Oregon.

Todd McLaughlin: 2:32

What instigated the move?

Athena Vaughn: 2:35

Um, honestly, I had always wanted to move out of Utah. And I love being by the coast, but I also love the mountains. And the weather here is very different. Just the change and different communities and you know, yeah, we just looked at we came back here in December. So right during, like peak rain winter season, and I still loved it, you know, super rainy, so. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:09

Very cool. We're in Oregon.

Athena Vaughn: 3:11

I'm in Hillsborough. So it's like 30 minutes outside Portland.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:18

Portland. Gotcha. Nice. I've only been to the Eugene area, but it's so beautiful.

Athena Vaughn: 3:24

It is so beautiful. Really as Yeah, and there's so many cool parks like within walking distance that look like you're out in the mountains.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:33

Yes. Congratulations. I'm excited for your new move. That's always exciting.

Athena Vaughn: 3:39

Yeah, it's been great. Honestly, I've only been here since Friday. So

Todd McLaughlin: 3:43

I'm definitely in the honeymoon phase and with Oregon, right?

Athena Vaughn: 3:47

We are Yeah. Well, that's a long that lasts.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:53

I hear Yeah. And that's and you're a yoga teacher? Correct?

Athena Vaughn: 3:57

I am. Yeah. Is that

Todd McLaughlin: 3:59

if you were to put a put yourself in like a category of what you do and who you are? Is yoga teacher a good category? Is that just a part of what you do? How would you explain your work life?

Athena Vaughn: 4:15

Well, it's a very large part of what I do. I have found yoga to be one of the most healing experiences and containers that we can be in. And then from there, I also mentor, coach people on healing I practice and study different psychologies and yogic philosophies. And I just kind of mix them all together. So when I'm teaching yoga, I'd like to keep the purity there, but I do a lot of everything in the healing world.

Todd McLaughlin: 4:54

Very cool. Are you teaching online or obviously You made a big move. So I wouldn't expect that you have a yoga teaching gig already lined up in Oregon. But what are your hopes and your plans in terms of how to conduct yoga classes.

Athena Vaughn: 5:13

So what I'm planning right now I'm like eight months pregnant. So I'm not currently teaching, there's a lot. I teach Kundalini yoga, and there's a lot of Kundalini that I can't practice right now, for the safety of my pregnancy. So at the moment, I'm taking a little bit of a break. But when they come back into teaching, I want to teach it to do series. So I'd like a 10 week series, and I myself have dealt with CPTSD. And I'm making, I'm creating like a series and a support system and Kundalini yoga for those who have CPTSD. And those who loves, let's see, PTSD, and support them. So I'll do like 10 week series at a time. And it'll be you know, a few hours, where I'll use different yogic philosophies coupled with different psychology and bring them together, and then we'll do some yoga together, and just make a little support group.

Unknown: 6:19

So Eric, cool.

Todd McLaughlin: 6:21

In the new, I'm not familiar with what the C stands for in front of the PTSD.

Athena Vaughn: 6:29

Yeah, and it's, it's in the DSM five, but it is different than PTSD. So the C stands for complex C, PTSD. And the difference is with C, PTSD, this is for those who have pretty much been marinated in traumatic experiences for their entire lives. And when that happens, you know, we don't get are the only the only nervous system we get is our survival instincts. And we will deal with the trauma thing, think of the right word pregnancy brain, we will deal with the effects of the trauma and the abuse for our entire lives. But with PTSD, you can gain back your emotional equilibrium and not deal with the side effects anymore. So yeah, there's a little bit of a difference.

Todd McLaughlin: 7:26

I'm so excited to have this chance to speak with you, because I'm currently reading The Body Keeps the Score. Oh, yeah. Have you heard of that? Or read that book?

Athena Vaughn: 7:35

I have read that. That was one of the first introductions I got with my CPTSD years ago. It's a good book.

Todd McLaughlin: 7:41

It's an amazing book. And I'm just so curious to learn more about trauma informed yoga. And I guess on that, no, I mean, I hope this isn't too personal. And I understand completely, you don't have to answer this question. But can you give us a little bit of insight into what caused your CPT? SD?

Athena Vaughn: 8:05

Yeah, of course. So first of all, I was adopted. And even though there are circumstances where adoption is really great, it still presents a lot of issues for the child. being taken away from your mother, the only source of nutrition and nurture that you have ever known, is really traumatizing. And I went to a family where there was a lot of abuse. There was a lot of neglect from parents and from older siblings. And I was just marinated, and that abuse and religious trauma came in as well. And then from there, I was also trigger warnings sexually assaulted as a child, from family member for years, and nothing was done about it. Yes. And, yeah, so I was as pretty much every form of abuse a child can have happened to me, and those very formative years. And it continued on even through when I became an adult, my prerogative was get out of this house. And I got into a really awful marriage and dealt with domestic violence. That's where my first two children are from. Then we divorced and I had nowhere to go. So I had to go back to my family home, and more abuse accumulated. And yeah, and I had been in therapy for years, but it never really stuck. Because I was too afraid to open up about my abuse. And so then I finally did, and that's one. I found yoga. And that's what helped me the very most.

Todd McLaughlin: 9:50

Oh, wow. I mean, for you to be able to even talk about it like that. has to have taken a lot of work. I'm thinking

Athena Vaughn: 9:59

yes. Yes, there was, let's see, I think five years ago, I got really, really into healing myself and looking into my trauma. And for about a year and a half straight. I was having between three to five panic attacks a day just trying to heal.

Todd McLaughlin: 10:18

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, are you? How often do you have panic attacks? Now?

Athena Vaughn: 10:26

I haven't really had them for a long time actually. gratulations anytime I can feel myself getting my nervous system dis regulating? Yeah. But a ton of coping skills, mostly through yoga that I use to bring myself back. So

Todd McLaughlin: 10:42

amazing. I mean, something that I hear often is people will say that, like talk therapy, maybe had some effect, but not as big of an effect as yoga meditation has for them. Have you had a similar type of experience? Or would you give equal weight to both?

Athena Vaughn: 10:59

I think there is a place for talk therapy for sure. And psychology, because mental health is a very real, very serious thing that we need to take care of. And as yoga teachers, you know, I'm not licensed, I can't diagnose you. If you need a medication, I can't give that to you. And for their own safety, and now you need to psychology has its place, but it's definitely not enough. We need to work out the emotions and the energy of those traumas out of our bodies. And the best way to do that is through a spiritual practice, like yoga. Nice.

Todd McLaughlin: 11:40

Did you take was your first yoga class a kundalini yoga class? Or what was your very first yoga experience?

Athena Vaughn: 11:47

My first was actually a Vinyasa. And then a haka. And I loved them. But when I first started yoga, about 10 years ago, I wasn't necessarily doing it for the spirituality. I was definitely doing the westernized approach as it's a workout. And then, let's see, three and a half years ago, about, I met my Kundalini yoga teacher. And he introduced me to the spirituality aspect, and that is when all of the healing actually opened up.

Todd McLaughlin: 12:27

Wow. Would you say that the healing opened up? Would you attribute that to the same time period that you started to speak vocally about what had happened to you? Because I think I heard you say that you. There was a long period of time where you weren't able to talk about it. And then there was a shift where you were able to was that around about the same time?

Athena Vaughn: 12:49

Yeah, actually, through my my yoga teacher, back in Utah, I met a yoga therapist, and he is also a Kundalini teacher, plus an actual psychologist, and I still see him to this day. And that's what we and he uses meditation, and his practice and his therapy, he uses movement, we use different sometimes. So have we get really vocal on like screen finding too. And he's also a Yoni therapist. So he does so many different things. And then he'll give me like meditations I can do on my own at home. Nice to really help me learn how to feel, which has been incredible.

Todd McLaughlin: 13:33

Let's assume that I've never heard of Kundalini yoga before. How do you explain it?

Athena Vaughn: 13:44

To so as a, there's so many moving parts to it. But Kundalini is definitely not your mainstream yoga. It's not what you're going to see online. If you were to search Yoga, you know? Yeah, with Kundalini, we use a lot of repetition. You know, we use Korea's so use rep repetitive movements. And those repetitive movements actually help you regulate your nervous system. They trigger you into your fight or flight response. And then we come in, we rest. And we trigger ourselves back and learn how to move into our parasympathetic response system, which is your calm, your regulated system, and you go back and forth. And so you're learning how to switch back between the two. And it really helps. It's also the considered the yoga of energy. So we're using every single chakra, a lot of different lineages I've noticed focus really heavily on the heart, throat, third eye and crown chakras, which are beautiful to talk this, but they kind of leave the bottom three hanging. And so in kundalini, kundalini shakti being you know, part of your In lower centers, we use that energy the entire time. And so we are balancing our lower three. And that's usually where most of our trauma is held as well. So Kundalini is extremely effective for those who have trauma, or addiction.

Todd McLaughlin: 15:18

Very cool. I mean, I have a ton of questions for you. You made mention that, because you're pregnant, that you've needed to stop practice your Kundalini yoga practice, can you explain why?

Athena Vaughn: 15:33

So I will have to stop all of it. It's just when you are pregnant, you. Like I said, we work out our lower three chakras a lot. And so it's a lot of apps. And when you're pregnant, you really want to keep your abs loose, because your belly needs to grow and expand. And you're also going to be pushing out a baby. So you really want to strengthen your legs, and your pelvic floor muscles and leave your belly to be calm and relaxed. So I've just had to switch a few things around some of the poses i just can't do. Because it's not safe, and it hurts your stomach, and it could put you into labor, like Breath of Fire, you can't do Breath of Fire, or you could start contractions. So there's just a few things I've had to omit.

Todd McLaughlin: 16:23

That makes sense. I just thought, I just taught a gentle yoga class right before this podcast, and I had a woman who was eight months pregnant, and I love it when pregnant. When when when moms are to be moms come in. And I think it's amazing to watch. And I think, like learning to do the modifications and watch the modifications. And I feel like I've my wife, we have two children. So my wife practiced yoga, all throughout her pregnancy. And so I've gotten a chance to watch her and then the chance to work with women and watch them and I love just seeing like what type of natural modifications are made. If there's a few like prerequisite ingredients, though, what would you advise somebody who's either thinking about becoming pregnant, or currently pregnant and thinking, wow, I'd love to try yoga,

Athena Vaughn: 17:17

I would definitely say it depends on their workout routine, if you have been very active before you're pregnant, or when you're newly pregnant than really before, about 17 weeks, you're fine. And Kundalini, we have a belief that the soul of the baby doesn't necessarily drop into your body until week 17, or the 120th day. And up until that point, you can pretty much keep your practice the same. And then at that point, you'll notice the quickening, which is the baby dropping in. And that's when you need to switch it up. But it depends on your workout and how active you've been because you don't want to be straining your body. You don't want to do any inversions. And you don't want to do any Breath of Fire because those could cause a miscarriage. So, you know, just be safe. Yeah, that's it and listen to your body. Really listen and tune into your body. If you're feeling any pain, stop, sit down, get some water and rest. And then just kind of as a touch and go.

Todd McLaughlin: 18:25

Yeah, great advice. Thank you. Yeah. When you made mention of after your divorce, and then you needed to move back into your adoptive family, and you brought your children what type of experience was like that, like that made me I was just hard for me to just hear that in a way just feeling for you. Like in the sense of like, oh my gosh, that must have been so challenging. But at the same time, if you're a mom and you have two children, you need some type of stable environment or some type of environment period, to, you know, obviously keep the process going. Can you shed a little bit of light on what that was actually like for you?

Athena Vaughn: 19:12

It was, I was already so traumatized anyways, but it was definitely like re traumatizing because it was like I'd finally gotten away from that and knowing what I was going into and worried that it would happen to my own kids. So I really had to I moved into an even more vigilant state where I was never resting. I really didn't get any sleep. My mental health really deteriorated even more. Because I was so watchful of my kids and wasn't sure what was going to happen. And yeah, that was honestly probably worse than living there myself. Because they're your babies. You know, you have these little ones that you burst you grow you love more than anything and you're like great we have to go into an abusive home. You cuz if not, we'll be on the street. And that's my guess right now.

Todd McLaughlin: 20:06

Yeah, yeah, I'm so happy for Athena that you, you've been able to get out of that.

Athena Vaughn: 20:12

Me too. Thank you. It was a really big step. Luckily, they were a lot nicer to my kids than they were to me, but they still undermined me as a parent a lot. So it was really difficult. There's a lot of fighting because I was like, Okay, well, I'm the parent, you know, and they wanted to be the parent. I was like, Well, you're not. So yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 20:37

Was what was the experience, like when you left their house to this last time? And you took the kids? Was there a struggle? Or was it like in the middle of the night type situation? Or was it a situation where you could speak about it, plan and make a move?

Athena Vaughn: 20:59

I actually planned it was my therapist. I had told him for years, like I want to get out of this house, I want to go no contact with all of them. And I want to go to a safe place. And that's what I'm working towards. And so he helped me get emotionally ready, because there was so much gaslighting. It was really hard for me to be like, am I being overdramatic? Am I the crazy one, you know, my everything that they say I am. And so we did a ton of work to heal my subconscious mind from them. And then from there, what happened was I met my now husband. And we slowly started moving in together, I wanted my kids to have an adjustment period, because all I've known was grandma and grandpa's house. And then eventually, I was able to go no contact, and my husband and his oldest son actually went to my parents house, and got my kids things and brought him back to his place. And then I never talked to him again.

Unknown: 22:07

Yeah. Well done. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Good adjustment period.

Todd McLaughlin: 22:16

I have some experience in the realm of what you're talking about personal experience as well. So even just hearing you talk about it, I have to admit, it makes it's it's um, it's even it's like a trigger. It not triggers the wrong word, because I'm okay right now. But do you have a similar experience? I'm you're doing such a great job talking about it. And not? Like you just seem calm? So that's pretty amazing. But I have to admit, like breathing. Okay, yeah.

Athena Vaughn: 22:56

That's the trick.

Todd McLaughlin: 22:58

And so in your process of working with other people, can you share maybe a story or two about what the process of helping others that might be going through it as is helping you as well?

Athena Vaughn: 23:15

You know, it the whole reason I've wanted to teach and help other people through their own traumas, since I was about 16. So I started, that's when I started studying psychology, even just on my own, because it helped me understand what was going on. And what was happening to me, and understanding the people that I was around. And so I've been really passionate about it for a really long time. And a lot of my sessions, when I start talking to someone, I like to do it on Zoom, because like to see them is I start by watching them breathe. Because when you are dysregulated, your breath is very shallow, and it's all up here in your throat and in your chest. And if you watch them, that's just it's an indicator like, Oh, they're dysregulated they're triggered, they are hyper vigilant, you know, they're not in a window of tolerance. And then, you know, just ask a lot of open ended questions, and I listen, and there's little key words that you'll notice with people who have been through especially intense trauma. And from there, you can start building. Okay, so this is kind of what happened and a lot of times people don't realize that was abuse. They think it was so normal is for us, it was normal. You know, like for us getting neglected is our normal for us. Having parents or older siblings beat you up is normal. You don't realize that it's not okay. So you just really have to listen to those key phrases that they'll tell you.

Todd McLaughlin: 24:59

Can you Give an example of like, what an open ended question means. And or one that, you

Athena Vaughn: 25:04

know, open ended is just especially like when they're telling you a story, let's say that they're sharing a traumatic experience, and they completely shut down. You're just asking, What would What did that feel like for you? What did that look like for you in that moment? What did you do in that moment? And then they'll be able to take themselves into that moment, and tell you what happened, what they did, you know, you try to keep all of the, all the focus off of the abuser off of the person that hurt them, and bring it onto them so that they can get a new perspective of the experience.

Todd McLaughlin: 25:41

Nice. Can you explain and or help me understand if what what a trauma informed yoga class looks like to you currently, with all the experience you've had?

Athena Vaughn: 25:53

Yeah. Personally, I'm not a teacher that likes to teach every single week, because I would much rather have a series of longer classes where I'm able to actually dive into what the trauma and how it shows up in our lives, it's. So for me, it's taking the approach of different chuck it is sometimes, and then other times, I will dive into different body systems, because trauma has a very profound impact on our nervous system on our endocrine system, our circulatory system on every system of our body in our digestive system is huge. So, you know, I like to dive into Okay, sometimes trauma will show up, like GI issues, you know, you could have IBS, you could have a really hard time eating certain foods, you could have insomnia, really bad. Trauma shows up physically. And that's something they can connect to, you know, it puts it in their head, like, oh my gosh, yeah, I have these issues like that could unexplainable. You know, Ben to all these doctors, and nothing helps, you know, they put me on all these medications that kind of do something, but not really, you know, and again, never tell anybody to go on medication. But from there, you can build little Koreas and meditations that they can do that hit those places of their body, and will help them balance them.

Todd McLaughlin: 27:22

Nice. I mean, yeah, yeah. In relation to like, the first chakra, what's something that you would like, obviously, that's normal, Adara chakra and this is going to be our like base instinct, sand are within the realm of like survival and fight or flight is there say, for example of if like if you were able to observe and a student that they're having some challenges with the sort of psychological elements? And then you said, a Korea that could like, address that particular body part? Can you elaborate a little further as to maybe? What, what that could mean?

Athena Vaughn: 28:11

Yeah, so essentially, again, the blue dot chakra is about survival. So that actually, really has to do with our sympathetic nervous system. And it's also for elimination, you know, and eliminates toxicity in our bodies. So for that chakra, you're going to want to do Korea's for Kundalini kriya meditations that have to do with elimination. And that have to do with goodness, I will say administration wrong one that has to do with our metabolism. You want to work on your metabolism, your metabolism. And there's a lot of really good creative skills. I'm trying to think of a name right now. For one but there's there's so many there's one that's literally like Korea for metabolisms. And that is a great one to practice.

Todd McLaughlin: 29:05

What is that? What what is that practice

Athena Vaughn: 29:08

Oh, it has a lot of different interesting moves. A lot of it is going to be strengthening your legs and using mobile and because that's your pelvic floor so you really want to tighten up your whole pelvic floor and use mobile and a lot and really strengthen that and you're gonna be bending and against strengthening up your legs and that is going to affect your data chakra.

Todd McLaughlin: 29:37

Do you try to keep some sort of mental visualization on the emotion surrounding fight or flight and or survival or is it something that you just let that go and just do the physical aspect and let things the dust settle or is it a combined?

Athena Vaughn: 29:57

I always give options me because ultimately I am just here to provide an experience for them. But the experience is completely up to what they want to do. So sometimes I'll say, you know, hey, we're working on a mod chocolate today and go through the list of what it can do. The traumas that can live there, how we can relate to it, the color, everything, and I'll say, you know, it's really great to either focus on the Morgado chakra, during this practice, you can do that by imagining, you know, a glowing red light at the base of your spine, or, you know, really sit in between each exercise are awesome and practice, we sit for about 20 seconds. And during those times, I'll say just feel, notice what you're feeling. If it's frustration, if you're pissed off at me, then be pissed off. If you're mad about a situation be mad. If you need to scream, I want you to scream, if you need to cry, cry, you know, just whatever it is, you're feeling, give yourself permission to dive in and a hold you energetically I will hold you. But it's up to them. They don't have to do any of that. Or they can do that. It's their experience.

Todd McLaughlin: 31:16

Have you had a situation where you're teaching and or leading this type of work, and have a situation get out of hand? Where you're in underwater over your head with? Maybe, you know, I guess if somebody has experienced trauma, they're unaware of it and or they're starting to become aware of it. And all of a sudden, they started doing this work, and it might feel maybe for them that it's intensified. Have you had any, like situations where you felt like, Oh, I didn't expect I didn't I didn't know this was gonna happen or

Unknown: 31:52

not? Yes. You're like,

Athena Vaughn: 31:59

Okay, I've even been that person where it gets so intense, because the pain hurts so bad. And what I learned from my teachers, and from my teaching experiences is during those times, you know, you really want to focus your energy on helping them heal and calm down with love energy, just send it their way, get them to some tissues, and then have them stop. And never send them on their way ever. Not when they're in that state. It's so dangerous for them. So just have them sit, have them stop, and keep going. And then after the class, just talk to them. Yeah, hold space. Got it, and help them calm down. And you can do that through just simple breathing. You can do it through, you know, always ask, like, Would you like a hug, because a lot of people with trauma don't want to be touched. So just ask, you know, if that seems okay, but be careful with the boundaries of a teacher, you know, and just talk to them. Yeah, calm down. And then once they've calmed down, you know, like to build them up, you know, like, you did a lot of work. And I'm sorry, that it hurts that, that. That's normal. There's nothing wrong with you. You're doing beautiful, you're worthy of this, you're completely deserving. You know, I believe you, I believe your story, I believe, whatever. And just build them up and talk them up about what a great job that they did. And you know, if they come back, they come back. If they don't, they don't. But at least you left them in a good experience. And I'm not good state.

Todd McLaughlin: 33:38

Nice. If I'm a new yoga teacher, I am listening to this conversation and going whoa. Nobody talked about that during my teacher training. And I don't know what I would do. If I was in a situation where something like this happen. Do you think that like in a regular cyclic or classic public class, maybe at a gym or like not even like a dead like not in a dedicated yoga space, but in a situation like where you said you first start practicing yoga like in the vinyasa where maybe your initial intention was for body culture, you know, to like, either get strong or sometimes people are thinking maybe I'll lose weight and all that sort of stuff, but then that you have this switch where you start to understand the more the connection between the mind the body and the spiritual, is if do you think that people that have experienced trauma that maybe aren't aware of it are going to come in touch with that with your class six say body culture yoga, or does that not typically happen until you're in these more trauma informed base classes where the doorways opened up?

Unknown: 34:53

They could.

Athena Vaughn: 34:56

A lot of times what happens with time On my healing. And sometimes we don't even recognize that we've been doing trauma or regulating our nervous system, our nervous usually, like, for instance, when I moved in with my now husband, I finally got to a safe place, and so did my kids. And we all slept for like a month, straight, pretty much we are exhausted. Because your nervous system finally regulates. So if people are not in touch with what's happening, they don't realize that oh, wow. Like I'm feeling better. So then they're like, I want to go to yoga. Like I feel really good. Now. They could come into contact with more, because once our nervous systems begin to calm and regulate, that's usually when repressed memories are like, Hi. Come in now and you're going to remember me because you can handle it. So they could have that happen in a class? Yep.

Todd McLaughlin: 35:52

What would you recommend to someone who's a brand new teacher that if they are looking around the room, what are tailed telltale signs? That there's potential that somebody is not in touch with trauma and or might need special attention? Like a fidgety a, unable to look you in the eyes? A? Um, are there any, like specific signs that when you see it, you go, Oh, that was me, or I really see what they're going through? Or is there anything that you can advise there?

Athena Vaughn: 36:34

Yeah, if you're looking at your students and watching them, you will see no eye contact, for sure. Digitally with their hands, their breathing will come back up into their chest. And they won't be able to relax any muscles. Because you know, with yoga, we learn how to relax different muscles, but they'll tense you know, but really, like tense up like into a little bit of a ball. And they'll be breathing heavy up in their chest. And those are definite signs that oh, something's going on, they may need to take a break. And that's okay. Just talk to them. Have them sit down, get some water in them. For sure. Take care of them, you know, have them set. And just breathe. I usually say long, deep breathing, to calm them down. Or one of my favorite breaths is actually the straw breath. It's one that EMTs use. And so you breathe in long and deep through your nose. And then as you exhale, you exhale through your mouth even slower as if you're blowing through a straw. So I have them use that one. And it calms you down really quick. Nice.

Todd McLaughlin: 37:45

Nice. Great advice. Thank you so much. Have you had any experiences where you've had some sort of physical pain in your body? Or what seems like you'd made you made a list of different types of things like say, IBS, or insomnia? Or maybe chronic headaches or something of that nature? Have you had any physical ailments that you thought there's no way this could have anything to do with my state of mind? This has to be like a legit disease situation that's like irrelevant to my thinking processes. It's never I'm never gonna get better. And then you got better. And you made a connection between that body reaction to the either unprocessed trauma or the process of processing trauma. Were you then made that connection? Have you had any of those experiences before?

Unknown: 38:40

Yeah, actually, I have.

Athena Vaughn: 38:43

I've had insomnia. Really bad. IBS. I had days where I could not process any meat at all. My body would hurt so bad gluten intolerance, and ovarian cysts for no reason, but they were bad. I would get about nine at a time and have more rupture. Who would be in the hospital? I didn't have PCOS. And I didn't have endometriosis. And so the doctor is a specialist I saw. Were essentially telling me, I had bad luck while ovulating. And that's all I had. So but then once I started diving into my trauma, and making the connections with holistic healing through yoga, all that went away. Wow.

Todd McLaughlin: 39:29

That's amazing. Yeah. And in when you're going through it, did you think there's no way this could just be unprocessed trauma?

Athena Vaughn: 39:40

Yes, because that's what we're taught essentially, is that if you have physical pains or these issues, you go see a doctor, you know, but every specialist I had been to, could not give me any explanation for why or nothing would help. And I was tired of all the medications. I was tired of the specialists nothing's happening.

Todd McLaughlin: 40:02

Where do you think we draw the line? Then? If there's, you know, say I have like, you know, an earache, and I go and I get some antibiotics, and it clears up. Do you believe or do you think that surely there has to be some disease and or pain that is unrelated to trauma?

Athena Vaughn: 40:24

Absolutely. Yeah. You're always, you can always get sick. Yeah, absolutely. I think Modern medicine has its place for sure. And I don't feel like they should be separated, because they're pretty much one on the same. You know, sometimes it is an energetic and traumatic state. And other times you're just sick.

Unknown: 40:44

Yeah. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 40:47

The plant? Do do you think it's, um, tricky to draw the line in relation to like, so you made mentioned, like, say somebody has students practicing and they have, like, tension in their body and their their breathing is up in their throat and or upper chest? That they, like, say, somebody just had a stressful day? And they're tight. And they're stressed out? Where do we draw the line between someone that just had a stressful day, and they're tight, and someone who has legitimately suffered severe trauma?

Athena Vaughn: 41:27

Honestly, I don't know if there's, I just treat them the same. Yeah. Because it's impossible to know, you know, if I don't know you, I'm not going to know that you had a really bad day. So I just treat it the same, you know, if they're really struggling in the class, have them sit down, do some deep breathing with them. And for the most part, if it's just stress, they'll get back up. And they'll keep going. If it's trauma, they're gonna sit, and they're not gonna move, and they're gonna be so dysregulated that they cannot move, they're gonna go into a dissociative state. And that's kind of a tell tale sign. It's like, Oh, there's the difference, but essentially, is treated the same.

Todd McLaughlin: 42:07

Did you ever as a kid, have someone tell you that you're disassociating? Was there? No. Is that funny? Because no, because why? There was no, like, were you ever brought to therapy? Would anyone take you to therapy when you were in that abusive environment? Or well, yeah,

Athena Vaughn: 42:29

actually, I did. I am. So from it. I actually had anorexia. And I passed out at school because they hadn't eaten so long.

Todd McLaughlin: 42:40

How to ask how old you were like, what what stage were

Athena Vaughn: 42:44

1313? Ah, so awful. And so what my family didn't notice. Didn't notice I was wasting away. And so after, I can't play in Russian, because I was sick. And I started therapy, but I was so afraid to tell my therapist what was going on at home. And so she had no clue what I was experiencing, because I was so terrified, because I knew when I get out of here, I'm going back, you know, and I need to survive this. So if I tell them, I won't get I won't survive being at home again. So I just have to shut up, whatever they say goes.

Todd McLaughlin: 43:32

Wow. That's pretty intense. Do you think that I guess what would be a proper terminology for me to label those that you feel like were the ones that were abusing you? Your abusers your your parents? And what do you think what is the preferred way for me to address them?

Athena Vaughn: 43:56

I just call them the abusers. abusers.

Todd McLaughlin: 43:58

I think, yeah, I don't

Athena Vaughn: 43:59

even by their I don't even call them mom or dad to tiptoe around

Todd McLaughlin: 44:03

that. I just wanted to know like, what's appropriate? No, you're good. I. And what do you think they were scared that you were going to talk when you were in that treatment facility? Do you think that they were in one part of themselves aware that they were abusive? Do you think they were so abused themselves? Perhaps when they were younger that they were completely unaware of what they were doing? Now that you look back on it? Can you make any sense out of that?

Athena Vaughn: 44:34

I think it's a mix. Because as I've gotten older, I've noticed that they also have a lot of mental health issues. They do. There's, there's a lot there. So they have their own issues and that projects on to everybody around them. But there was also a part of them that you can tell was conscious about it because of the way they did Smile after hurting you. It was like a sadistic, I'm happy I just hurt you kind of thing. You know. So you can tell they were somewhat consciously aware, but also, like delusional themselves. Yeah. And living in a different world where that didn't happen. Yeah, what they were doing. Okay. Wow.

Todd McLaughlin: 45:22

What was the nest next experience after what you had happened when you were 13? That was the big alarm bell? Was there another one? Because surely a dentist is surely you didn't just go and come out and then okay, everything's gonna be okay. Now, um, you know, was there another big wake up call for them and or, you

Athena Vaughn: 45:45

know, if they've ever had a wake up call, I knew something was wrong for a very long time. And after I got out of that institution, it was more just they had drugged me up on so many medications that I didn't need. And because I didn't tell them what was going on at home, there was no way to properly diagnose me, you know, they could not understand what was going on with me, the doctors were just as confused. You know, they were all lost. So, but they did put me on a lot of different medications. And one of my parents is very medication happy, a little bit too much. So they were fine with that. But I was, what happened was, it just clouded my mind so much that I just I started fawning, you know, and just kind of doing what they said. Because I realized I'm not getting out of here. And so I'm just gonna do what they say. And I'm just gonna, you know, abandoned myself. And just wait until I can get out. Yep.

Unknown: 46:52

Wow. Holy cow. That's intense. Athena. Yeah, yes.

Todd McLaughlin: 47:01

I'm so thankful for you to be this honest with me. I know, we're both I'm just this is my first chance to get to meet you. And your being kind enough to join me here. And I'm amazed at how how easy it seems to me easily, you're able to share this. And that's a big deal. It seems like, I can feel that you've obviously processed a lot of this. Do you feel like you're in a space? Where like, Can you feel that too? Are you proud of yourself? I got

Athena Vaughn: 47:35

to get to a place where it's like, bad things happen, you know, they're, you know, they don't really have much of an effect on me anymore. And if sharing my own story can help other people make sense of theirs, then that's what I'm gonna do.

Todd McLaughlin: 47:53

Yeah, that's so amazing. And you said that yesterday? Yeah, that is amazing. I have had a chance to speak with other people that have had really challenging situations like this. And I know how big of a deal it is to be able to say what you're what you're saying. So I really do appreciate your honesty. Thank you.

Athena Vaughn: 48:17

Thank you, it's a good space to be able to talk about it. So

Todd McLaughlin: 48:20

what um, I mean, I guess for me, one other thought, hopefully, thank you for being patient with me, is, um, as a parent myself, how do you relate to raising kids and watching them and then maybe wondering about the time that they were around your abusers? How, how do you process all that now? How do you kind of feel okay with everything and, and deal and move forward with that?

Athena Vaughn: 48:56

Well, again, taking you out to just psychology, it's really easy for me to see, you know, my kids are eight and six. From a brain development standpoint, I understand where they are at. You know, their brains haven't even fully formed yet. You know, like they're right and left hemispheres haven't even fused together. So right now, you know, it's very different because I get an order app. And I just tried to connect to them through Hey, how are you feeling? Like we don't see Grandma and Grandpa, how are you doing with that? Are you angry with me? You can be angry with me for taking you away. That's okay. Are you sad? I want you to be sad, you know, and I'll help you through it. And it's really just getting them to talk about their feelings and put a name to it. And the more I heal and regulate my own nervous system, the better I am at helping them do the same. So it's really just what I learn and apply to myself. I kind of just apply it to them at an age appropriate way, state. Nice.

Todd McLaughlin: 50:03

Great answer. I saw on your bio on your website that you are have studied and or practice polyvagal theory. Can you? Yeah, let's please,

Athena Vaughn: 50:15

I love polyvagal theory, oh my goodness, I'm such a nerd for it. So polyvagal theory, we are working with the vagus nerve. And our vagus nerve is the longest nerve in our body comes from our head, all the way down to our bellies. And so it actually affects your stomach and in GI issues, anything down there. It'll affect your heart health, your throat, everywhere, your brain, your headaches, things like that it'll affect and our vagus nerve, there's three different states we can talk about. So we've got dorsal vagal, which is like the bottom of a little ladder, dorsal vagal is the back of the vagus nerve. And that is like, where we are completely disassociated. It's sort of like when a possum rolls over and plays dead, you know, you just can't do anything. So when you're in that state, you're completely shut down. And then we go up into our sympathetic, their sympathetic nervous system is your survival. So your fight or flight fawn freeze those. And we do need that state, obviously, like, if we were about to get in a car crash, we need quick movement to stop, right and that's your survival instinct kicking in. And then we have ventral vagal at the very top. And this is where we are able to process where we are able to respond appropriately to the situations, and we're able to calm ourselves down, it's like the slow break downs, like the pause. And with polyvagal theory, what you're learning how to do is move yourself up the ladder to ventral vagal over and over again. Because the more you practice moving from dorsal or sympathetic into your ventral vagal, than your ventral vagal is going to become normal for you. It takes time. But essentially, that's what we're doing is we're just giving ourselves safety and connection to ourselves and to our life and the world around us that we didn't get before.

Todd McLaughlin: 52:14

Nice. Do you feel like yoga is a tradition that was aware of the vagus nerve on either or subconscious level? And that all the practices were pretty much around this regulation process? Is there anything that the polyvagal theory brings to the table that the yoga field might have missed out on?

Athena Vaughn: 52:38

Yes, it they knew 100% Is that they didn't have the verbalization of it. They knew what they were doing. And this is for every single lineage of yoga. Think about it, when you are doing an intense yoga flow, and you're breathing through it. That is you being in an intense survival mode, but breathing yourself into a ventral vagal system into calming yourself down. Yeah. So in yoga, you are constantly moving between the two the entire time no matter what lineage you practice. That's what you're doing.

Unknown: 53:12

That's cool. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:14

When is the last time that you've had a dorsal vagal experience? Go into a what was there is dorsal. What's the shutdown? Door? Yeah, dorsal the middle is the ventral or this top is the ventral. So can you remind me

Athena Vaughn: 53:33

ventral is the very tip top that's your you're processing and you're safe. Then you have sympathetic, which is the fight or flight? Yeah. And then you have dorsal, which is completely like an animal playing dead. You can't move.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:46

When's the last time you had a dorsal experience? Actually,

Athena Vaughn: 53:50

last year, I had a repressed memory come up. Wow. And lately, shut me down. And I had to go back into some really intensive therapy for that one. Wow. What I would say, when you get somewhere safe, and your nervous system regulates those repressed memories, that's when they creep back up because it knows that you're able to handle it. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 54:18

I was watching a show on HBO called the 100 foot wave, which is about famous pro surfer named GARRETT MCNAMARA and he is attempting to surf the largest wave in the world. And it takes place off the coast of Portugal at a place called Nazare where they have these massive waves. And so they were just starting to analyze a little bit about like, Well, why would someone do this? Like why would someone put them in this really dangerous environment to try to, you know, be challenged in that way and then they went back into his childhood a little bit and they showed some of the stuff that he had to go through this like interesting you know, like the end he made mention that I feel like I have These memories that are on hard drives that are so far back there that I can't access that information. And that when I heard that, I thought that's a really interesting way to look at it, you know, like, or just the thought, because we can relate to computers, maybe nowadays, do you have any other insights into how that works? And, and obviously, you've experienced that, like, that's incredible that you have this, you know, like, where you are in a safe space, and you just got floored again, and how to go into therapy to kind of process some of that some of that memory, can you give us any more insight into what that experience is like? And or what if I want to access that deep stuff that I'm wondering, is it there? Is there something that we can do that's going to help us to get there?

Athena Vaughn: 55:51

Yeah, first of all, I would suggest really working on regulating your nervous system, really working with the polyvagal theory, and working with your vagus nerve. And there's so many different ways to do that, I would really suggest, first of all, getting a strong foundation, with healing and regulating yourself. And meditation is actually a very, very beautiful tool, because meditation will help you access your subconscious. So when you're meditating, you know, what can happen if you just you know, if you're doing it long enough for whatever, however long it takes you doing it over and over and over again, keep practicing, eventually, you're going to have you know, feelings, and thoughts come in and out. And you can track those thoughts. And I also love to use what I call life cycles in mind mapping, where I will break my life up into chunks. And look at who I was around at that time where I was living, prominent people in my life and look at the thoughts, or what they said to me, what they said about me, what beliefs that created for me, and any big events, or just even small events that happened, because that'll show you where your trauma is. And from there that opens up a doorway for your subconscious to start to come through. And that's what you got to do. You know, there's tons of different doorways that you can use to open things. And so it's really good to have a well rounded either therapists or a well rounded mentor, or coach or teacher who can give you all these different ways to access what you want. And eventually one of those doorways is going to open you up, and then you just want to roll with it.

Todd McLaughlin: 57:36

Yeah. Very cool. Can you talk a little bit about if myself and or the listener would like to work with you? How,

Unknown: 57:48

how do we do that.

Athena Vaughn: 57:50

So currently, because I'm super pregnant.

Todd McLaughlin: 57:56

I have I'm super pregnant right now. So just give me

Athena Vaughn: 58:00

exactly through the birth and the healing, then I'm going to open up my space again, for one on one clients where I can help. And we'll do like a mentorship for at least four to six months, you can always add on more. Or, you know, if you're in Oregon, you can find me teaching at some point after the birth. But right now I have a self study course. It's called your reclamation. And it's actually the perfect step for someone who wants to begin this process we go through, it's about I chunked it in by weeks. So it's eight weeks long. You can do it since it's self study, you can take as long as you need to. That's what I love about self studies. But we will go through in depth, your nervous system polyvagal, your subconscious life map and mind mapping, body mapping, will map your trauma and here and physically. And there's a lot of information. And on top of that I have worksheets on there that I created, I have little tables that you can use in print off so that you can figure out which sympathetic state you're in. If you're in fight flight, stuff like that. We'll go into great detail about each one and ways to help bring yourself out of them. I've got 60 trauma informed affirmations that you can begin to use. We'll work with your inner critic. We work with your inner child. We work with your wounded inner teen. And I have tons of meditations on there that you can use. So yeah, it's a lot. That's why I'm saying Take it slow. Because this record, your reclamation is just jam packed with everything that you are going to need to get started. So is this

Todd McLaughlin: 59:54

digital course as well? That's on

Athena Vaughn: 59:56

Yeah, so it's online. I recorded it so you'll see me Yeah, yeah, I recorded it. So you'll see me, and I just talk. And I broke it down into chunks. So even though it's a lot of information, I did simplify it. And then I'm also giving resources for trauma specialists, like real psychologists and psychiatrists, from where I got a lot of my own studies. And then, yeah, so it's a mix of psychology, polyvagal theory, nervous system regulation, and spiritual practices that can help you heal and move the energy out of your body. So it's everything blended.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:00:37

That's incredible. Athena, how long did it take you? Obviously, this is your life's work. But from the day that you decided this is what I'm going to do, how long did it take you to put all that together? A while.

Athena Vaughn: 1:00:50

Few months. Okay. Yeah. Cuz I knew what I wanted. And I was like, I gotta break this up, make it bite sizable, make it digestible. And so I wrote out what I wanted to say, each week, and then looked it over again, edited, it, broke it down a little bit easier. So even though it's like, it's a lot of information, it's very easy. And I leave room for, you know, whoever is in the course, to do their own research as well and give them the resources to do so. Because I think it's really important to also not just, you know, take a course, but to also do your own research.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:01:31

Have you had a testimonial of someone that went through it and called you or wrote you and said, Wow, thank you.

Unknown: 1:01:39

Yeah, actually, I

Athena Vaughn: 1:01:40

have, she's amazing. She's been doing a lot better in her life. And she actually wants to work with me again, in a little while doing another mentorship as well on top.

Unknown: 1:01:51

That's kind of feel really good.

Athena Vaughn: 1:01:54

It does, it does. And, you know, there's, I try really hard to keep what people say private to me. As well as when I'm in a space with others. And I'm teaching, you know, make sure that everything is I just view these healing containers is very sacred. So I do try to keep what they say private, but it's all been really good

Unknown: 1:02:15

feedback. Very cool.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:02:18

This time went by so fast that Dan, I feel like I could keep going. But I want to respect your space. And that attempt to start to steer us toward closing our session together. Is there anything that I might have missed out on? In asking you about? Is there anything else that comes to mind that you

Unknown: 1:02:38

are wanting to share?

Athena Vaughn: 1:02:44

No, nothing's coming to mind. I think we've pretty much covered you know, the trauma, the the nervous system regulation, how to help yourself and other teachers, you know, giving them a little bit of guidance. Yeah, that's about it. I think we did a really good job.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:03:01

Oh, man. I mean, I was so excited. When when I got a chance to chat with you via email very briefly, before we met up. I know you can just kind of feel from someone just on a really quick email even like that. Basically, long story short, I was excited to meet with you. You were very kind, very sweet in our email. Correspondence so. And like, that's just kind of like a feeling that happens. Do you know what I mean? Like it's, so I was like, I was excited. I was excited for today. I was like, I can't wait to get this chance to, to actually meet you. And it's even been better than what I hoped. And I feel like you're extremely clear, and very thoughtful. And I can tell that you've gone through some stuff, but the way that you've been able to just explain all that, and communicate it is pretty amazing. So I'm really thankful for this opportunity. And I really appreciate you taking time out of your day. I know you're busy. A lot going on. And I'm so excited that you have you haven't you're in a safe space and a brand new move and a beautiful part of the country. Oregon so amazing. So I'm just really happy for you, Athena. I'm excited for you. I can't wait to see what what evolves for

Unknown: 1:04:19

you here.

Athena Vaughn: 1:04:21

Thank you so much. I was really excited as well, when you reached out. i Yeah, your yoga studio and how long you guys have been teaching together is really inspiring you and your wife.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:04:32

Oh, no, thank you. Well, we'll just keep going here. I mean, I think we I think the world could go through some sort of healing phase where,

Unknown: 1:04:43

where maybe we can minimize

Todd McLaughlin: 1:04:47

the sort of challenges somehow if we speak openly, like like you like you did. So I think this is a push forward. This is a

Athena Vaughn: 1:04:57

Yeah, Andrew Yang, like people don't want to talk about it like how, how are we going to help other people feel less alone and less victimized if we don't stand up and talk about it? Yeah, that's a good point. Like, it's not a fun topic, but it happens every day. Yeah. So it's something that needs to be spoken about. And also something that needs to be guided through, you know, you've got to guide other people and help other people, and then that's going to have a ripple effect.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:05:28

That's a good point. Do you think like, say, in the process of me, putting the message out about this podcast, that's that it is a good idea or an unnecessary idea to say,

Unknown: 1:05:41

Be warned,

Todd McLaughlin: 1:05:43

this topic is challenging, or do you think no, don't do that, like, just put it out there? Do you know what I mean? Like, obviously, if someone started listening, they're like, Whoa, this is way heavier than I was expecting. I just wanted to Rosie walk down the sidewalk. Um, you know, they'll turn it off. Right. So I mean, is there a need to preface like, be warned everybody, some of the things that you're about to hear? Or like, what what do you think about I don't know that it matters, but it did cross my mind a little bit during our conversation. Like, I wonder if I should let people know like, Athena is about to share some, some challenging stuff that might be challenging for you to hear. You know, like, when we're watching a TV show, they're like, get ready, you're watching the news, some of the images you're about to see. And I think that's probably important, right? Like that. Like, if kids are watching, we want to let them know. And I always mark all of my podcasts, I check the explicit box, like, even if you don't say that word, or like, just to like, Okay, if there's kids like this is what we're talking about might be something that we want to just like, you know, parent, or make sure they're aware of what they're getting into. Any thoughts around that?

Athena Vaughn: 1:06:56

I usually do put a trigger warning, but I also feel like it's important to try and take the fear out of

Todd McLaughlin: 1:07:02

the trigger. I guess that's

Athena Vaughn: 1:07:04

Yeah, yeah. It's, it's good to put it out there because some people may not be ready to hear however, there's really nothing. There shouldn't be a fear surrounding talking about it. You know, I use it as like a trigger warning. Talking about trauma, different various traumas. And there's you except for with the sexual abuse, that's where I actually put like, trigger warning. We're talking like sexual abuse is brought up. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:07:36

Okay, good point. But you know,

Unknown: 1:07:40

so, yeah,

Athena Vaughn: 1:07:42

same time, it's like no details are actually shared. It's just mentioned a mention of this. Oh, this allow train. Sorry.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:07:52

I know. I'm not real close to the train tracks here. But I was like, Well, I wonder if I am all of a sudden, like,

Athena Vaughn: 1:07:58

I know, that was a lot. I'm not used to that.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:08:01

Right. That hopefully that isn't go off at three o'clock in the morning tonight.

Athena Vaughn: 1:08:05

Yeah, I haven't noticed quite Yeah, we'll see.

Unknown: 1:08:10

Oh, man, Athena,

Todd McLaughlin: 1:08:12

thank you so much. I can't wait to get a chance to work with you and continue to watch your journey. So I really appreciate this.

Athena Vaughn: 1:08:22

No, thank you so much. I really appreciate being on here. It was great. I loved it. Thank you. Thank you.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:08:34

Native yoga Todd cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know. If there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com. And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time