Elena Brower - Softening Time with Deep Reflections

It's a privilege to bring to you Elena Brower. I had a wonderful time talking with Elena on this episode titled Softening Time with Deep Reflections.

Check out Elena at https://elenabrower.com
Follow her on IG: https://www.instagram.com/elenabrower/

Elena is a mother, mentor, artist, teacher, bestselling author and host of the Practice You Podcast, Elena has taught yoga and meditation since 1999. After graduating Cornell University in 1992, she designed textiles and apparel for almost a decade before focusing on yoga, meditation, art and writing. Her first book, Art of Attention, has been translated into seven languages; her second, Practice You, is a bestseller. Both Practice You and Being You are utilized as teaching tools in a variety of settings.

During this podcast we discuss topics like:

• Elena’s upcoming book. 
• How to prioritize self-empathy. 
• Smoothing the edges of misunderstandings. 
• What her first entry into yoga and meditation was like? 
• Dropping it all and sitting still. 
• How her transition from East to West has evolved?

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Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin Well, welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. If you're a first time listener, I'm so excited to have you join in. If you're a returning listener, this is just a huge honor to have you consistently come back show by show. Thanks so much today..... Wow, Elena Brower, I can't believe it. I'm so happy to be getting some incredible people to come on to this show. I feel so excited and honored. She is somebody who had been watching for years and years and I've just always respected her message, the way she presents information, her ability to just like really pull it into the moment and just speak from the heart. I felt it right away. When I got on the conversation with her through to the end. It went by so fast. It's my been the fastest hour I've ever had with someone on a podcast before literally, I was just like, it's already time. I can't believe it. So anywho I'm so excited that you're here. Let's go ahead and get started. It's a huge honor for me to have the chance to speak with Elena Brower. Elena. Thank you so much for taking time to join me here for a podcast session. How are you doing today?

Elena Brower: 2:19

I'm super today. Yeah. Let's take a trip with my child who is not a child anymore. We're going on our first like mother and son trip since I don't know five years, six years. fully formed man who's much taller than I am. And I'm really looking forward to this time away. I've been gearing up for walking away from pretty much everything so that I could just drink in this moment with him.

Todd McLaughlin: 2:49

Oh, how old is he? Do you mind me asking?

Elena Brower: 2:52

I don't mind. He is almost 17.

Todd McLaughlin: 2:55

Wow, my son is the same age. He'll be 17 and July. When is your son's birthday?

Elena Brower: 3:01

October. It's crazy.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:03

What day in October. Do you mind man? I gotta I don't care. What's

Elena Brower: 3:06

the fifth? 13th actually

Todd McLaughlin: 3:09

Oh, cool on the 30th That's why I wanted to ask I thought Oh, nice.

Elena Brower: 3:15

And my favorite ex boyfriends mom was who? Also there 30 A wonderful

Todd McLaughlin: 3:21

ex boyfriend moms are awesome.

Elena Brower: 3:24

Marlo, she and I are still like thickest thieves.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:28

Oh, that's amazing. Very cool. Well, I mean, I'm just so excited to have a chance to speak with you because you you're so active in the yoga community and you've been at it for a long time. So I feel privileged to have this chance. Can you I'm excited to check out your new book. You had just mentioned to me and I You had said that. Can you tell me the title again? Softening time softening time by Lena Brower? Can you tell me how this book came about?

Elena Brower: 4:03

Yes, it's it's slightly autobiographical. It's slightly instructive. It's a poems I've been writing since I was like 10 Wow. We pulled it together my dear former assistant Jenny who was my assistant until I left New York my only one and only ever assistant. That was all that was in one round. I got the so wonderful. We just had tea, virtual tea and Sunday long tea and she took all of my journals in like three boxes, three cartons, compiled typed out pulled the things that she thought were relevant for now. She pulled such good stuff. And then I took that pile which was like a pile of pages like this over the last I don't know five years. And just like comb through cold out the ones that I thought would be good and then just got to work about Two years ago, in pulling it all together, wow, as I was pulling it together, a lot of my friends, not all of them. I care about a lot more people than are in here. But a lot of the ones I I'm very close with, made it into this book with pieces for them. And so it's very, very personal. And one of my best friends wrote a review for me. She said, it's so personal that it's universal.

Todd McLaughlin: 5:29

That's amazing.

Elena Brower: 5:30

Yeah, that's kind of what it feels like. And it's reflective of a lot of work and

Todd McLaughlin: 5:38

thought, What a great idea. And you and you kept your journal since you were 10. I hear people actually do that. That's amazing. So

Elena Brower: 5:48

I filled them out. But I did keep them for a long time. Did

Todd McLaughlin: 5:51

you really have to do this, you just do didn't hold on. And you said I'm going to let him go. Now.

Elena Brower: 5:57

You know, it's funny, we were just talking before we started this recording, but I've just taken a Buddhist precepts. And as you the more you sit, the more hours you sit, the more sessions you sit, the more weeks you sit months use it. I swear, you read about it. We think well it can be true. It's not true for me. And then one day, all of a sudden, it's like, I actually don't need any of this. Yeah, this is all part of like a personality attachment that I don't need. I'm a work in progress. I'm constantly changing the minute I think I've nailed myself, something else comes into my sphere and changes something. And so yeah, I just I let go of all of those things. And it feels really good. Now the whole world is open, I'm writing more I feel the emptiness. This is talked about a lot. In this tradition Soto Zen Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. Form is boundlessness boundlessness, as form form is not separate from boundlessness. boundlessness is not separate from form. So it's, I feel full, the more I let go of all that stuff that I thought was defining me and like grounding me.

Todd McLaughlin: 7:23

That's amazing. I like how you You also mentioned that it's so personal, it's universal. And that fits really well. And with what you're saying with the formless is the form, it seems that maybe you can start to see the universality of this personal experience that you're sharing. Is the poem too long for you to read to us now? Is it something that's so long, you'd have to have to abbreviate it? Or is there a section of that poem that you'd be willing to share with?

Elena Brower: 7:53

This is these are all it's a whole collection of poems so I can read a piece for you. That'd be great. All right, you get to pick my mom or my sister.

Todd McLaughlin: 8:05

Annika with mom, great.

Elena Brower: 8:09

Now, this is also part of my healing from her passing this book so she has several poems in here. This one is called library. It's not the saddest, nor the most touching, but it's really it. It welcomes me back into a very certain moment in time. I was probably for context. Eighth grade ninth grade.

Todd McLaughlin: 8:33

It's called library when when she passed

Elena Brower: 8:37

know when this poem was taking place got it. She asked about seven years ago got a library. We walk in together holding hands until we don't in front of us the lady at the desk seems overly enthusiastic to our right are all the children stacks books with letters too big and pictures too obvious. I've spent hours there, but I'm older now. We turn left instead. The middle shelves loom large the ones for real people stairs desks books with no drawings whatsoever invite me to come near a promising their mysteriously rich abundance of information, escape hatches, treasures beyond my wildest dreams. My mom knows exactly what it all means and where she's going until she doesn't. Just before she heads toward the fiction buffet. I tip my chin up in the direction of the desk and choosing to which she smiles her impossibly welcoming, brown eyed gleam that still comes to me and dreams. She strides away confidently. We trust each other here. This is our place together where we can safely triumphantly separate reclaim our shared independence here. The only place where we can do that until years later, when we find ourselves sharing a cigarette on a porch at a spa in the sunshine our second and final trip together. The joy of smoking, neatly lingering alongside the knowing that her days are numbered. And I'll one day soon be motherless. But I digress. Sitting down at my chosen library desk to do homework feels like I've cracked the code on adulthood. She's online for a time, even though she's over there. Books are everywhere worlds into which I can enter freely, neatly. I've got papers to write, but everything I need is nearby. It's here that I learned to synthesize to cope with mountains of detailed information by selecting, prioritizing, hiding in my work like all the other adults too.

Todd McLaughlin: 10:40

Wow. That's beautiful. Thank you. That's really amazing.

Elena Brower: 10:50

That's just one. Yeah, there are ones that are more specific to the moment of her passing the moments before. There's some real beauties about practice. Some gorgeous series of Haiku. You know, slots in here.

Todd McLaughlin: 11:08

Do you think about that? When you're hanging out with your son, that sort of reflection experience of knowing like you'd made mentioned at one point that are in there that this is the second or close to the last time I hung out with her to ever when you're hanging out with your son? Do you ever have this where reflections of like, if this was my last moment, if this was my last day, you know, am I here for him? And

Elena Brower: 11:39

yeah, every morning when he comes in to say goodbye before he tries to school, I stand in the driveway. Totally dork Town. Thank curtsy and I wish him well and I send him off and I you know surround him

Todd McLaughlin: 11:58

but that reminds me of like that first time you pick your kid up from the school bus stop or something you know, you're just like, are you dropped them off? Like you just can't? You can't believe they're actually big enough at this point. They're handing out the school so you still kind of treat every day even was taken off in his car. You're like, almost like it's his first time going.

Elena Brower: 12:18

Dude, I don't I don't miss a moment. I missed a few when we lived in New York and I was traveling a lot. So for the last three, four years. Don't miss a moment.

Todd McLaughlin: 12:28

Yeah. Yeah. I hear ya. I hear ya. That's amazing. And your kids? My son is 16 and my daughter's 10. My son's name is Ethan. My daughter's name is Priya.

Unknown: 12:43

How beautiful. Thank you. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 12:46

Thank you. She was we were in India when she was conceived. So we thought she needs a She needs an Indian name. Or Yes, um, and you made mention that if I or anybody listening or anywhere in the world wants to purchase that book that if you buy two copies of the book, I can automatically get entered into a writing workshop that involves you and four of your other favorite writers.

Elena Brower: 13:14

It's true story. I got barley, who wrote the parenting map, who's one of my really dearest friends and mentors for a number of years now. And she also does that I was inspired because now if somebody buys the book, shares it with a friend. Both people are coming to this writing workshop as our guests as my guests. So cool. And I'm co hosting four sessions with Tracy Stanley, and Laura McAllen. And Octavia Rahim, and Danny Shapiro. So it's a badass group. All of them have sort of different skill sets, and are just extraordinary writers, thinkers, you know, real success stories in their own right.

Todd McLaughlin: 14:11

Amazing. I can't wait to do it. It sounds so good. Thank you for offering that to everyone. That's such a great idea. How do you mind sharing how this event sort of like came into being? Did you at the time of publishing of the book think let me reach out to these people? Or is it something that they had the idea and they reached out to you? How was the coordination of that?

Elena Brower: 14:32

No, it's always just a little like burst of energy. Shefali was having me on her Instagram, on my Instagram rather promoting her book, the parenting map, and she was doing a similar thing where if people buy two copies of her book, they are now coming to a parenting summit that she organized really beautiful, like crazy, awesome guests. I was like This is a very good idea. And if you're listening or watching this podcast, you may not know this. But publishing is not what it used to be, there isn't so much support behind the launch of a book, the author really has to come up with ways to share the book broadly. So I was like, well, that's a really, really nice idea. And I started to think, well, if I was to do something like this, what would I do? And I just gave it several days. And I just pictured myself with these four luminaries in my life, who I love, who would say yes, you know. And we organize the dates. You know, basically something like this, if you are watching, and you're like, how do you put something like that together, it's just a lot of email, back and forth. A good solid Google Doc, some organizational skills, and you've got it, you know, and I had person, my dear partner of the last almost 13 years, I think, my digital collaborator, designer artists, she and I, she's the only one I've ever had. And she and I really get on beautifully. We've actually never had a disagreement. And all this time, and she designs, the sort of page landing page and you'll see it at Elena brower.com, forward slash softening time, one word, you'll see what she designed, and she just, she just does such a good job. It's such a, I feel very fortunate to have somebody who can take my seed of an idea and make it visible. And real. You know, that's a rare thing.

Todd McLaughlin: 16:48

That's cool. Now, that's the same assistant that you spoke about that you had one and only have are these?

Elena Brower: 16:55

No, no, she was really an assistant. Okay, gotcha. She now lives back in Ireland. This person is like a partner to me. Got it. Got it. Yeah, she's really incredible. And she and I have, we pull equal weight. And her her role in my life is not to be diminished. Like it's very major, the way that we support each other. And I feel very lucky to have her name is Michelle, with two L's Martello with two L's. And she's at minima designs with an S at the end. And she does do private hour or so two hour consults, where she'll look at your website, she'll go over all of the itinerant materials, courses or whatever you feel like you want to be offering and give you some really solid insights into what could be improved, streamlined, transformed, evolved, whatever the case, she's quite, quite good.

Todd McLaughlin: 18:00

I'm gonna reach out to her, I need that kind of help. Thank you. Um,

Elena Brower: 18:05

I say her name whenever I can, because so many people just need like, one set of eyes on things. So you know, you can stop doing that. And you can take that material and put it into this. And, you know, we we very often do double triple work sometimes. Yeah, we've already done that work. We've already written that piece. We've already thought about that flow of work. Yeah, yes. Yes. A lot of what we do is just enabling more efficiency in our workflows.

Todd McLaughlin: 18:37

Oh, that's so cool. You know, I had the opportunity to have Judith lasater, as a guest here on this podcast, and she spoke so wonderfully of you. And that's what got me inspired to reach out to and she was talking about a class you guys were teaching together, centering around nonviolent communication. And I was wondering if you could share a little insight into what you've learned over the years in relation to fostering nonviolent communication.

Elena Brower: 19:06

Yes, I cannot tell you how funny it is that for years I resisted this course because I didn't like the name of it. Who am I? Who do I think I am? And two or three years ago, Judith came to me and was like, I think we would do a really good job together. Would you like to teach this thing online together? Yes. Of like, Yes,

Todd McLaughlin: 19:29

yesterday, right?

Elena Brower: 19:31

That's of course, she's in my phone is mama. And Lizzie her daughter I consider to be like this very distant soul sister. My since my mom died every time I get on a call with Judith on a video call. At the end of my mother's life. Even though her whole life she had this big curly hair after she had cancer and her hair grew back and it was exactly like Judas hair the same color bangs color everything straight. Weird. So every time I see Judith, I'm just like, my mom was here. And her name was also Judith. So she asked me to do this with her. And I said, of course, and basically, without I don't want to glamorize it, because I'm basically the tech. Lackey, and Michelle and I, of whom I've just spoken, we organize the mission. To be fair, Michelle organizes, all the zooms. We organize all the emails, I write all the materials, the copy, and we administer these virtual courses in NBC. And we only do it once a year. So the next one will be in September, October of 2024. So ways off, but 18 months or so way, what I have learned to answer your question, finally, the first thing I've learned is to prioritize self empathy, which sounds like a really good idea. And even made its way into one book that I co wrote with a friend of mine from Cornell called Better apart, that is helping to revolutionize the way people see divorce. It's excellent. I'm very proud of that work. And Gabrielle Hartley, my co authors now releasing another book. You know, if you're considering separation or divorce, just look up better apart. It's very good if you're listening to us. And self empathy was in that book, and I was like, self empathy. Sure, I think I know what that is no, self empathy is like the most important practice, if we are ever would have learned from Judith, if we are ever to be able to offer anyone else empathy, I have to be able to sit here in the quiet of my own being, and recognize what needs are not being met. without placing blame without trying to fix without trying to solve, just give those unmet needs, my attention, my love, until they soften. It's not to say I'm ignoring them, it's understand pushing them under the rug, or not addressing them. But it's just to sort of smooth the edges out of everything. And the minute I can do that, I can look at other people, even the ones who with whom I don't agree, even the ones with whom I have big, big misunderstandings. And I can see through the veil of the misunderstanding into their pain and their unmet needs. And that's when nonviolent communication can really take a hold. And if you're listening to this Judas book is called what we say matters. It's a wonderful book. I've also recently inspired by all this work, interviewed for the practice you podcast, Mike Salivarius, was wonderful on NBC as well. And he and I had a terrific conversation really rich about this topic and how important it is and how how we can smooth over without, like I said, without ignoring or bypassing or shoving under the rug, we can smooth over so many interactions, just by having empathy for ourselves, and empathy for the other person. It's not draining us. It's not like we're giving away all of our chi, you know what I mean? It's just sensing. This person has unmet needs, just like me. And our unmet needs our meeting in the field in front of us. And that's what's causing all the drama. And if I can see both of those things, I can see the person

Todd McLaughlin: 23:47

while sad.

Elena Brower: 23:51

It's so cool.

Todd McLaughlin: 23:52

It's very cool. How have you been able to implement that in a teaching environment where if you hadn't come across that information, you think it could have gone horribly wrong? Like have you had a situation recently where now that you know what, you know, and you're practicing these techniques and or, and I'd like the way you're making it kind of simple in that just to the personal practice of developing self empathy, and then from there, there's potential, but can you give an example of a time where you think that if you hadn't learned this, maybe something would have gone awry? Well,

Elena Brower: 24:33

as my dear teacher, Roshi, Joan Halifax says, I am in a continuous mistake. I have made mistakes in the past. In fact, almost two years ago, the one big egregious mistake that I ever made was trying to sort of bend somebody who had been traumatized into fear feeling better? Before I really understood what this was about before I really understood what trauma was about. And I really tried to apologize. Unfortunately, that was not what was wanted. The apology was not welcomed. But I can see now how had I had NBC had I had some trauma, understanding, I would have been a lot less sort of forceful and more kind of, yes. Okay. You get to be over there and having your experience rather than come here. And let me help you feel better.

Todd McLaughlin: 25:38

Yeah, great answer. Yeah. Like straw guy. Yeah.

Elena Brower: 25:43

And I'm not, I'm not making light of it. I, I feel deep remorse for this. And I really tried to apologize. And you know, make it clear that if I had had that situation to do over again, I would do it very, very differently. But again, that was a what was wanted, like the apology was not welcomed. So you can only do your best. And to answer your question, specifically, since I started learning, and we see it's really quite rare that things escalate. In fact, since I've been working privately with Judah, things have not escalated to any degree that they used to I, I used to have such a volatile, temperamental side. And that's gone. And it's gone for other reasons, too. But NBC has most definitely helped to mitigate and dissipate that aspect of my personality.

Todd McLaughlin: 26:45

Very cool. That's amazing. That's quite benefits as quite a transition from volatility to non escalated. involved.

Elena Brower: 27:01

Very, very peaceful around here, you know, and, and that's, I Judith is to to this, my hero. I feel so so, so lucky. To be able to listen to her for 16 hours at a clip. Yeah. On this most most important topic.

Todd McLaughlin: 27:22

Yeah, she is special for sure. How did you Elena? What was your first entry into the world of yoga? And meditation? I guess I'm guessing here that it was yoga first. And then meditation came next. Was there? Did you enter into the style that to teachers, which is more on the side of restorative? Or did you come in like, guns blazing? I want to tackle the yoga world type of approach.

Elena Brower: 27:55

I took my first class in the early 90s. There was no yoga world to tackle there was no

Todd McLaughlin: 28:03

Understood, understood. Yeah.

Elena Brower: 28:06

And I took a class and I loved it. And by comparison, I had been taking ballet with one of the big deal Russian teachers city center. And she was like pile driver. And it was not pleasant. But I thought that was the only way to get like that sort of long length. And when I started taking yoga, I started seeing Oh, I can actually be in a situation where I'm moving my body and it's actually supportive, emotionally, physically. So I stayed with that for some time I met in 1997, I met Cindy Lee. Cindy Lee was teaching at a gym in New York that is no longer. And I took her class. And she mentioned to me at the end of class that she was going to do a teacher training and what I like to join and upon taking the questions home, I started, like painting sewing and collaging my answers, which pointed to the fact that I was definitely interested and went into it. She actually returned to me my original application recently that's so nice. Oh, wow. So that I took my first training was her and she was she is a Tibetan Buddhist. So at first I was like, Oh, I don't know about this. You know, nothing was jiving with me. Taught for her for a little while parted ways, went to teach on my own eventually opened up my own studio around 2002 And see, steeped myself in tantric teachings with male teachers. For better or for worse, without really going too deeply there, it was a very thorough education. also fraught with mishaps and continuous failures on all sites. Until I found restorative yoga, took some classes with Judith then realized that upon moving out of New York to Santa Fe in the height of when everything sort of just shut down and 2020 in mid March, found your PIAA rupiah, as the word is but Roshi, Joan calls it you pious so I have you pie on the brain. And here I am with a full circle. Back to Buddhism. Yes. This is a Japanese tradition from the 1200s Dogan went to China studied with that whole lineage of teachers that, you know, started in around the 767 Hundreds. And then this tradition at you Paya with Roshi, Joan Soto Zen is derived from a Dogons time in Japan. And weirdly, I'm actually going to go see that temple. Like in a few days. This coming weekend, actually, and I could not be excited to see

Todd McLaughlin: 31:34

it. You give me to go to Japan in a few days.

Elena Brower: 31:37

Yes, I'm taking my son on mother's son.

Todd McLaughlin: 31:42

I've always wanted to go that's so cool. Have you been there before was

Elena Brower: 31:45

not happy with me? I can tell you right. Because I just, I just feel like this is so much more important than sitting in a classroom trying to remember. You know, categorizations of things.

Todd McLaughlin: 32:00

Yeah, yeah. Amazing. Yeah, that's so cool. That's gonna be incredible. Can you speak off? First question, I'm guessing it fits a Japanese style of meditation. So then would we classify this as my Jana practice versus Tera Vaada Buddhist tradition

Elena Brower: 32:22

is my on a best practice. You can say that

Todd McLaughlin: 32:28

which texts? Are there certain texts that this particular tradition gravitates toward?

Elena Brower: 32:37

Let's look at if your listeners super interested and I know you are the things that I look to the song of the jewel mirror awareness, The Heart Sutra i really love the platform sutra. Queening that's one of the Chinese ancestors from the seven hundreds. This one blows my mind. And I also love reading Dogan wrote a book, a piece of fascicle I think it's called a festival. So many different things. He was very prolific, but the 10 zoek Jochen. tNZ Oh KY okay when I believe Shambala published the Gucci, Yama, Roshi, translation interpretation of the tenso Kyokushin. So it's called How to cook your life instructions. For the Zen cook. I think it's called I like it, how to think about and kitchen something like this phenomena like I just handed in a book that I'm going to publish with Shambala called come home to yourself and I refer to many of these texts throughout.

Unknown: 33:53

There's so

Elena Brower: 33:55

richness in so few words, like the sound of the jewel mirror awareness is something which had a couple times a week and you Paya after the morning, sit during liturgy. And it's like, you know, a series of 50 lines, super short lines, and it says everything. Everything is that complications are auspicious. Do not resist them.

Todd McLaughlin: 34:23

Yeah, don't

Elena Brower: 34:26

walk away. Just have your life. You know, it's given me a lot of a lot to think about and a lot to drop, like, drop off all the books, let go of all the clothes, you don't really need most of that stuff. And as we were talking about earlier, the journals can go to it's all it's all persona. You know what I mean? I'm just like, yeah, good. Yeah. Good. Learning sitting still. That's it.

Todd McLaughlin: 34:58

I Elena the other day I read Your substack you, you write? And you'll, you'll Oh, yeah, well, you do amazing job, you know, you're a great writer. So it's, it's a pleasure to read what you write, and you shared a story. And I guess I, so I'm learning more about you, obviously, I'm good. First of all, I get a chance to meet you. So I'm sure there's a lot to learn. But I, from reading your substack, you mentioned a situation where you, it was like a religious holiday. And I could have sworn you said that I was with my mom. And I was in the temple or the synagogue. And, and you talked about this a lot. You chose not to even write the word God out fully said G dash d. And because I guess you were referencing from what I understood how Buddha never really answered the question Is there isn't there a god? It just kind of kept it unanswered? And so I guess you were contemplating maybe the tradition you grew up with and how you're now transitioning toward having a different understanding of relationships to the universe and a higher power? And can you speak a little bit about that? Or can you clarify for me, maybe? I'm not, yes,

Elena Brower: 36:23

I know this, because the way that I was referencing God, which is for good Jew, you don't write out God righ, T dashing and growing up Jewish, and I'm still very much considering myself Jewish. I was raised not to write out that word, and what I was referencing in the substack. And I also talked about it and come home to yourself these moments that I remember sitting in temple with my mother was a foreign Jewish Temple in Long Island. And every time the Shema was recited both the Shema and then the, the prayer about the doorposts of your house and on your gates, she would be weeping. And then I would start crying, because we're human, and we have mirror neurons. And she's my mom. And every time I hear the Shema to this day, I cry. So it wasn't a Buddhist thing. I was referencing how I still have a hard time writing God even typing God because it's so engrained in my body that I shouldn't. What I was writing in the piece of guessing that you saw was, it's so interesting, I resisted Buddhism for so long, because there isn't a god in Buddhism, there isn't somebody you have to give it all over to there isn't something you have to you know, trade, there's no transaction be good. And you'll get into his good graces. And I mean, it's really, how much can you drop? How much can I sit still, and literally do nothing? Let go of all of it, drop it all. Just drop it all. And there's no, you know, God looking over. And so I very gently find myself in the hands of both traditions. And both makes sense to me.

Todd McLaughlin: 38:26

Very cool. I agree with you. And I do recommend anyone listening to follow you on substack because you it's great chance to kind of see what you're writing about short little writings. I'm my my mom passed away just a little over a year ago. And it was, you know, I think when you're mentioning your mom, it's just so challenging. And in the process, I have a really good friend, Shawn Spencer, who I called him and he said Well, first of all, I'm training to be a death doula and I was like my head kind of because like I know what a birth doula is. And I'm like a death doula. I hadn't heard that idea yet. And he's like, Yeah, I actually go and help families just kind of just get through the process and like just be the mediator more or less than he also recommended that I read a book called Die wise by Stephen Jenkinson, which was

Elena Brower: 39:26

one of the best voices in this world. Wow, this was and also what's the more recent one? I'm blanking on the name Hold on, just find it

Todd McLaughlin: 39:37

by him or an author by him did he is so heavy and good. I mean, I that book you know is I started it while she was in hospice care and then I finished it after she had passed so like I think almost age come of age. I didn't know he had a new book out. I will definitely not new

Elena Brower: 39:55

it's certainly years old, but it's it's coming The Case for elder hood in a time of trouble. So what this is, is your sort of next step you becoming the elder. And he makes the case in this income advantage, he makes the case for how we have just tossed the whole concept of respect for the elders out the window. And if we don't start to bring that back, we're in deep, deep water. Yeah, how we shove all the old people over there?

Todd McLaughlin: 40:37

Yeah. We don't, we don't want to see it. It's too we don't want to acknowledge death and therefore, seeing elderly folks remind some of it. So let's just put that somewhere where we don't see it. You know, just keep it tidy and neat. Yeah. Oh, man, I highly recommend you've already obviously read it. Anyone listening though, if you can, if you can stomach dye wise, and not that it's hard to stomach but would you say would you agree Elena, though? It's it's a deep one. Like it's a powerful look at our existence and what we're doing and how we're, how a documentary

Elena Brower: 41:13

that he made where he went through several different families. One in particular, that stands out for me. I also don't want to forget Roshi Jones book, Joan Halifax being was dying. If you read nothing else for the rest of this year, I promise you, this is the one. And I just want to make us aware that we have 12 minutes.

Todd McLaughlin: 41:32

Oh man, I should have I should have started writing all these book names out. I'll get a map from you after that.

Elena Brower: 41:38

You'll you can hear them in the recording. But in the documentary that Steven Jenkinson made, he walks through several families as one family. And there's no right answer here. I'm not saying what's right. But he he gives us a look into this one family that gives birth to a little girl who has a very serious disease. And they keep her alive until she's like three. She really I'm not saying this. The point is posited in the documentary that perhaps that was too long. And the point is, we are using technology at times, not all the time, to extend life without respect for the natural cycle of death. And for the for the beauty and poignancy and sanctity and timing of death. We have lost respect, because we have all these technologies you can plug people in.

Todd McLaughlin: 42:42

And it's fascinating. It's fascinating. You mentioned that you are undergoing death doula training currently, am I right?

Elena Brower: 42:53

I'm gonna I'm actually starting it. So I'm starting Buddhist chaplaincy training early next year, and I'm also taking a gorgeous death doula training with my friend Ciara Campbell, who has a company called nurture. And if you go to nurture.co I believe I want to make sure I say this right, because her work is about to explode. And if you Yeah, nurture.co. Her work is about to explode. And I think she's going to be a real force and a voice in this realm.

Todd McLaughlin: 43:26

Amazing. I'll check it out. Thank you for recommending that as well. What would you like to achieve and or do once you have this chaplaincy training and doula training combined? What is your vision?

Elena Brower: 43:48

I, I just can see myself being among friends. We're all you know, in our sort of 40s getting into 50s. So my friends in their 60s 70s 80s I have friends who are elders. I would like to be of service at the end of days. And I think I can do a pretty good job. I know that I was very honored to be there for my mother when she died, and I felt like oh, it's so beautiful to be here innocently. Just tapping into what is happening in my heart. What's alive for me? What's alive in the space. How's everybody doing? Be nice to be able to really tend to things the way that you were talking about your friend. Yeah, it's tending things in that for folks. Yeah. It's like a wonderful service to provide.

Todd McLaughlin: 44:44

I agree. I agree. Well, that's cool. Lena. Thank you. I'm really glad you told me we had 12 minutes now we have six time we're going way too fast. No. So on that note how to I squeeze. What what do I squeeze out of you in the last few minutes that I have? What? What can I squeeze?

Elena Brower: 45:13

I'm just sitting here looking at my yoga notebook. I do. Yeah, it might be worthwhile to bring it back to the beginning, I still teach after 12 years for glow.com. And I have a special code for a week free. I have to live classes every week on Mondays and Saturdays in the mornings, Mountain Time, mid morning, Eastern Time, afternoon, zero, Europe time, UK time. And sometimes they'll air them for the morning in Australia as well, which is very sweet. I feel very much on purpose when I'm teaching yoga. And I'm taking all of this sort of Zen learning and experience and infusing my yoga teaching with it. And it all feels very full and rich, and true. Nice. And I think it's worth it to mention that.

Todd McLaughlin: 46:22

We Yeah, we can join you. You can we can join you. So it's, you're accessible to us.

Elena Brower: 46:29

It's on my Instagram, if you click on the link in profile, you can go straight to to the to the offer that I have, where you can get a week for free on glow. And it's so reasonably priced. You know, for the cost of I think two yoga classes. You can have unlimited time every month for a whole month of yoga glow. And it's just it's not just me either. So many great teachers are on there. Joe test doula and Andy carpenter and Jason Crandall, I mean, some long time ago, classes from Tiffany Cruickshank, TS, little mark Holtzman, all of whom are teachers and

Todd McLaughlin: 47:09

friends of mine. Wonderful. Appreciate you mentioned. So you're in New Mexico. Currently? How was your transition? Ben from New York Life to the west.

Elena Brower: 47:27

You know, I thought I was a New Yorker forever. I didn't you know, when you're in that, at least when I was in that I just couldn't even see. I would, why would I move? And when we did, we thought it was temporary. And when we got here, we were like, no, no, no, we're staying right here. This is so good. And it's just, it's just so peaceful and productive. In in a different way. New York productive is like, Go Go, go, go. Go, go. Keep going. Go out. Do this. Get there over there. Take a taxi and Uber. Whoa. And here productive is like just gonna lay over there for a couple of minutes. A couple books. I'm gonna put my feet up on the wall. And I'm knowing that I've been very productive yet. It's a totally different mind set.

Todd McLaughlin: 48:25

It's beautiful out there. I agree. Very beautiful. Amazing. Lena. Is it possible for the close of our podcast session for you to lead us through any sort of meditation like really short one hour? Is that Is that a reasonable request? All right,

Elena Brower: 48:45

I'm gonna pull one of the Hokku from here. Nice take some moments to just organize your seat. Organize the way that you're holding your spine. You can allow your eyes to close if that's it feels comfortable for you. Otherwise, you can keep your eyes open. Feel the weight of your sitting bones. Feel the ground beneath you feel that your feet on the ground or your seat on the ground or on your chair. This is an excerpt from a poem called tribute to practice. Practice holding no tension, expanding again. finally arriving at an agreement with myself. What if your practice is an art form? Not a path, but an expression and taking several deep breaths here just allowing the inhalation and the exhalation to come to a place where they're about the same length nervous system gently slowing settling softening. Continuing to place your attention on the breathing the depth of the breath and the body the body in space the quality of your attention on your breathing like lengthen your spine last couple of breaths here. Spine is tall, strong but flexible. Front body is soft, open available thoughts coming and going feelings coming and going. And your attention is gently resting on that which is unchanging. But then yeah final three breaths here moving your hands prior if you'd like a little bit maybe smile on your face. Thank you. Brother.

Todd McLaughlin: 52:50

Thank you. Wow. I don't think there's anything less left to say.

Elena Brower: 53:02

There never is. Really. There's no reason to add. Now that you know, I appreciate your time and your generous attention. And really, you have my respect.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:18

Thanks, Elena. Same here. This has been a real pleasure and I hope I get a chance to meet you online, do your writing course and stay in contact with you because I really have enjoyed this. So thank you.

Elena Brower: 53:35

Anything, let me know and I'm happy to send you the digital copy of softening time to to thank you for having me. So generously.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:44

Appreciate it. Have a great one about Native yoga podcast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com. And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time