Dr. Michael Shea - Embodiment of the Senses Through Yoga & Meditation

Join my special guest, Michael Shea PhD, for a discussion titled Embodiment of the Senses Through Yoga & Meditation. During this conversation we discussed Michael's new book titled, The Biodynamics of the Immune System: Balancing the Energies the of the Body with the Cosmos. You can preorder his new book on Amazon by clicking here.

Michael and I are pleased to announce the launch of our new course called All Levels Meditation & Yoga Course. Check out this new course by clicking here.

Visit Michael on his website here sheaheart.com

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Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin Wow, I'm really excited to have Dr. Michael Shea again here in person at Native Yoga Center for today's episode of Native Yoga Toddcast, which is titled Embodiment of the Senses Through Yoga and Meditation. Michael, how are you doing today?

Michael Shea: 1:25

Well, it's been a busy day because I spent the morning at the car dealership and looking at their giant aquarium waiting for the tires to be rotated and for an oil change to happen. So an entire morning at a car dealership gave me a really good opportunity to meditate on an aquarium.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:41

Nice. Do you have any profound realizations in the process of staring at the fish?

Unknown: 1:49

Always the profound realization is how wonderful space is, you know, when I get caught up and you know, not wanting to be where I'm at, at a car dealership, because I got better things to do, of just releasing my attention out into space. But in this case, it was the biggest aquarium I've ever seen. Wow. And just releasing my attention to the aquarium and then looking out into space as well. That's

Todd McLaughlin: 2:13

cool. You know, we have two really big announcements to share today. Number one, I'm so excited to have your a copy of your brand new book called the bio dynamics of the immune system balancing the energies of the body with the cosmos. Whoa,

Unknown: 2:37

it's that's a lot. Yeah, he's a big, thick steak if you're a meat eater, but it's also a big soy burger if you're a vegetarian.

Todd McLaughlin: 2:45

And so I'm really excited to have the chance to ask you some questions about your most recent publication. Also, you and I have created, and today on the launch of this podcast are launching our course together called all levels yoga and meditation course. And so you know, I had a lot of fun filming this with you. And I'm excited to release it today. And it's available on our platform native yoga online.com. So the link for that is in the description below for anyone listening would like to check it out. Michael from from us filming that course. Any takeaways from the experience? And or what are you excited to share with people that are interested in taking that course.

Unknown: 3:35

I think, you know, meditation in general, and yoga is constantly evolving in our culture. And when you study yoga and meditation, because I've been studying it now for 45 years, something like that, is just realizing like it's so highly nuanced. And the next teacher says, Well, have you tried this? And the next teacher will? Why don't you try this to refine your practice? So there's never really an end game. That's the one thing I learned. But there's a continual opening, you know, as long as you have that willingness to be open to a teacher to a new class. And as I said, you know, earlier when we were just talking, before we started, I just like to stay with what I you know, is trending, what's current, what's what's really informative, and I, I have to tell you, just a short story, and that is I've been studying all year with with a llama from Tibetan medical background. But he was in Sikkim, and then in Bhutan in the summer, and he was broadcasting from there. And he was at a very high level. It's called advisory on a tantric Buddhist conference in the capital city of Bhutan, in which all the heavy hitter Lamas from Tibet and that area of the world you know, we're coming together for this conference, and the one thing he said is that because it was going on on our planet these days, the veil of secrecy of all of these different meditation practices need to be lifted, and the secrecy needs to be taken away because we are such in such an important time on this planet right now with the intensity of the polarization and duality. So, you know, one of the things in my book shares is, you know, not necessarily sharing secrets, I think it's crazy to say I'm sharing secrets. But I understand why some of that knowledge, some of the mystical knowledge, or the meditation knowledge, or yogic knowledge, in general, is secret. It's just because teachers want to have you go through a progression. Because of your aptitude. Some students can't go to the end game, they can't, you know, go right out into space, you know, and stay grounded at the same time. So, at any rate, it's it's, it's exciting because I feel liberated in wanting to share more and more in that book is one vehicle of sharing more, in terms of what was formerly considered to be secret knowledge. And again, that veil has been lifted. I've never been good at holding secrets anyway, even my mother knew that. So

Todd McLaughlin: 6:20

Kyna is, is there a term in a book that you had given me a while back ago is that the phenomenon of basic space is, am I getting that letter the the, the basic space,

Unknown: 6:32

the basic space of phenomenon, a phenomenon?

Todd McLaughlin: 6:35

Can you explain that?

Unknown: 6:37

Well, I think I had to do Buddhists had to my teacher who was originally the Dalai Lama wanted all of his students to do Buddha scholarships. So I spent 10 years doing very intense Buddhist scholarship. And now I've even lost track of the question,

Todd McLaughlin: 6:57

explaining basic space and phenomenon.

Unknown: 7:01

Yeah, see, I went into basic space just now.

Todd McLaughlin: 7:05

I'll pull you back in if you drift too far over there. I'll thank you. I'll really I'll reel you in.

Unknown: 7:11

Right, right. So it was because I want my answer to link to, you know, this discussion of, of yoga and meditation. And so as a scholar of Tibetan Buddhist literature, there's really the two highest level people that you know, those are the writers you go for, in long Champa, in the Nigma, tradition, or sometimes it's known as the Xhosa tradition. It's also called it Yoga. But he's considered to be like the most incredible Lama that could give words to the ineffability of the infinite nature of our mind, and so forth, and all those things that we hear about and that we're trying to achieve. And that's one of his books. So that was recommended to me and I gave you a copy. And it basically explains the view of Tibetan Buddhism, before you get to meditation, it's helpful to understand the view. And I think that's also an important thing to understand about Buddhist meditation, you don't just jump on a cushion and sit in cross legged position, and so forth. But it's an understanding that there's a view here, and the view is basically that all phenomena is infinitely equal. And we hear that as no self, you know, that we don't have a solid self, and so forth, and that we're all interconnected. And it's described as being empty and other better other metaphors, you know, that are used, but he explains it the best. He explains it the best of how you rest into the element of space. And I'm talking about the element of space from indo Tibetan point of view, you know, space, wind, fire, water, earth, and so forth. So how you rest your mind, that's the sea, this is yoga and meditation, how do you rest your mind and body into the element of space where it all began?

Todd McLaughlin: 9:12

So when you were talking about being at the Toyota dealership today, and staring at the fish tank, and being able to let your mind go into space, is there a way to explain a technique that allows one to achieve that release into space?

Unknown: 9:35

Yeah, the basic technique is, well, again, you know, it's relatively simple. And it's one of these things it's been secret for a while. It's called looking into the wisdom of the universe, or looking into the center of the universe or looking into the center of space. All these are metaphors for the same thing, the infinite nature of the totality of of life, and the universe. In general, so, but the technique is actually quite simple. And you know, you're a yogi. And as a practicing yogi, I'm kind of a want to be yogi. I call myself a bogey, you know, kind of indulgent yogi. But the posture is always the first thing, you know, you said, You've got to embody your senses. And that means not labeling what you're seeing, not labeling what you're hearing, not labeling what you're feeling, feeling, you come into a posture that allows you to sit still, and just be with your senses. Because you have to notice if you're labeling a lot, oh, this is that that's that this is, you know, and that labeling takes us into the head and out of our body and out of the experience of meditation and yoga. So then the second thing is to really just allow your breath to be non dual. So I don't like teaching breathwork anymore. I've taught it for many, many years. And once you get into inhale, and exhale, you're into duality. And in in Buddhist meditation, you're trying to undo duality you're trying to get rid of it isn't the right word, but you're trying to relax into a non dual state that duality will always be there, samsara and nirvana are inseparable, let's face it. So, but breathing, like a river is flowing through you, alleviates that. So I just use the metaphor of just the, the metaphor of just being aware of simply aware of my breath. But I've been doing it so long that that kind of is automatic. And then the the so called technique of looking into space, is when you take your eye gaze, and you raise it about 10 to 15 degrees above the horizon. And so right now, you and I were making eye contact that horizontally, but now I've raised my gaze as I'm looking at the top of the door that's in back of you. And so you sit in meditation, and you immediately fix your eye gaze there and you don't let your eyes move. That's a big, that's a big key. And so by not letting your eyes move you, you have to really then begin to stabilize your mind. But then you have to work with your vision, the left side of your vision, the right side, and looking at a point in the center of space that's in between your actual eyeball, and the object that's furthest away from your vision. And you just allow that to begin shaping. And you get to see how the other elements and you get to have these visual distortions, some people would call them hallucinations, but it is a tremendously stabilizing technique. So at the car dealership, this morning, I was looking at the top of the aquarium, and I noticed all sorts of interesting things. Because when you embody your senses, visually, what you get to embody are colors without labeling them, and they had a light shining through this aquarium. And it was very psychedelic. All these different colors, rainbow colors were being projected on the wall, and I went, Wow, I'm kind of in a meditation chamber right here. Yeah, in spite of the area cameras going off, removing tires, and so forth. So it was it was good that way, because it's all about stabilizing our mind, reducing thoughts and reducing cognitions in the way we solidify reality with our thoughts and, and cognitions.

Todd McLaughlin: 13:29

That sounds like it was really smart on their behalf to put a beautiful fish tank like that in a setting where you could just kick back and write like now I want to go and check my car and over there and Right, right. That's cool, Michael, I'm really curious about Well, when I first heard about you is about 20 years ago, and I was curious about cranial sacral therapy. And I started because we live here in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. And the credit in the Upledger Institute is right around the corner. And I thought wow, what an amazing opportunity. This you know, Institute is a few miles away. So maybe I'll go study and then I remember seeing your bio, and that you are teaching cranial sacral therapy somewhere here in the area, I guess 20 years ago, and I thought oh, that's cool. He looks like a really interesting guy. And then you know, then I've had the pleasure of getting a chance to meet you to take some trainings with you and courses and and then you and I got introduced his word biodynamic, and I feel like you've had this little evolution from say, air quote, cranial sacral therapy, according to Upledger to this evolution toward biodynamic cranial sacral therapy. Can you help me understand your evolution from say 20 years ago to now where you are today with your perspective on the art of this manual therapy?

Unknown: 15:00

Well, I think all it's the same with yoga and meditation manual therapy as I consider to be a contemplative art as well. So, you know, in contemplative arts, we want to be able to evolve and continue to grow and evolve. And it's the same with manual therapy. So I think the the evolution just within to answer your question specifically within the field, first of all, we have to recognize that it was the osteopathic osteopathic practitioners and doctors in the United States that started cranial work. And so cranial sacral therapy, John, Dr. John Upledger, mazing human being amazing mentor of being in his first teacher training, and getting to know him, like, I know I knew him. And because I think he died like eight or nine years ago. But at any rate, it's it's a continual evolution, because he was an osteopath. And so he was teaching what he learned within the osteopathic community. And it turns out that there was actually two streams. In the original Dr. Sutherland, the founder of the method, who developed it from like, 1901, till the time he died in 1954. It was a continual, ongoing development of getting to deeper and deeper layers, and you're a massage therapist in and you have quite a good practice and you've got great hands. And I'm sure you notice as well, that there's a, there's an evolution in perception, you know, the more we do this work, the deeper we can perceive it, it's that simple. And then what happens is we try to seek out the palpation skills that somebody might know that would match the perception I'm having, because my teachers never told me about this perception. So at any rate, the biodynamic work is just what Sutherland discovered at the end of his life is that there were something much slower moving in the body that had a self correcting potency or power to it. And so it's been given a lot of names in my book. I'm calling it primary respiration because the Osteopath I studied with Dr. Jim jealous. who's the founder of biodynamic osteopathy. That's what he called it. He called it primary respiration, which is a slow movement in the body. And it's balanced with what he called the dynamic stillness, which is slowness, and and, and basically slowness and stillness. So you have the slowness of the tide of primary respiration. And then you have the stillness. And that's where you orient your perception constantly. Because all other rates and movements within the cranial model, they're all happening simultaneously. So any any type of manual therapy is a training in perception. And so my training is how do you get people to slow down? And boy, wouldn't yoga and meditation be a great way to slow down and of course so so that has to be a part of what I do when I'm training. You know, the cranial people that I work with is slowing down your state of mind in working with your perception. It at a deeper level.

Todd McLaughlin: 18:14

What is the alternative to primary respiration? Is there a term that's that's like secondary respiration? Is there an alternate to primary respiration?

Unknown: 18:23

Well, Premier respiration, the metaphors and synonyms for it are the tide, so you hear that from the earlier osteopath, or the long tide. And there's the that's based in in this teaching within the field itself of the rates, there are different rates that you perceive. So it originally in the Upledger work I learned about the cranial rhythmic impulse, it's a very fast rate eight to 10 cycles per minute, very fast. And so trying to to train your perception to that because that takes you into a certain part of the autonomic nervous system for healing in the body. Franklin sills then discovered a slower rate that he called mid tide. And then the biodynamic osteopath as they found an even slower rate. They call it primary respiration, which is six cycles per 10 minutes. And that's about a 52nd cycle, or 52nd phase is usually a biphasic.

Todd McLaughlin: 19:29

Interesting, thank you. Input part one of your book, it you wrote, describe current state of ill health and natural healing antidotes. Can you explain that to me?

Unknown: 19:46

Wow. Be great to read parts of the book to you. But you know, I'm prior to the COVID thing in the last three years of the hell realm that many people I've been involved in for many different reasons. But prior to that the volcano of ill health had already erupted. It had already erupted 10 years ago, 15 years ago. And the volcano of ill health as a term that a medical a cardiologist that I like a lot mentioned at a speech that he gave, again, pre COVID. But the volcano of ill health, and I mentioned that at the beginning, and it's because the physiology of our body has become very unstable, because the metabolism of our body has become very, very compromised and unstable. So it's called metabolic syndrome. And so that volcano of ill health, in my book, in the first part describes the metabolism of the human body. And it has to do primarily with food, because that's the primary instinct that drives human behavior is the instinct of self preservation, you've got to get food in to feed the mitochondria of every single cell in your body. That is the prime directive, if you have a living body, that is your prime directive no matter what species you are. And that involves feeling when you're hungry feeling when you need to eliminate all the things that metabolism does, and multiply that times, maybe 100,000, because of all the ways in which food has to break down into tiny molecules, and all these different processes. So the book tries to describe that in a very simple way. Because as you and I are manual therapists, and that's part of what we need to know, now we need to know that it's cut Todd, it's it's painful to even say this. But as of a year ago, 93% of Americans have an unhealthy metabolic heart 93%. In 2018, research at the University of North Carolina said that 88% of Americans in total were metabolically unhealthy. This unbelievable that we are that unhealthy. So this book is trying to explain what does that mean, but what's the fix? You and I are manual therapists, so we better know some of what it means, you know, how does the body function, anatomically, physiologically, and now metabolically? But what's the fix? You know, how do we fix that? And in my particular case, it's because when I got out of the military service, I was morbidly obese, I was metabolic. I didn't know it at the time, I just knew that I was 100 pounds overweight, and I was eating way too much sugar. And so consequently, I've had this lifetime adventure with metabolic syndrome. And it's only in the last 10 or 15 years that it's now an identifiable syndrome. But it's a cluster of well over 100 different problems. Cancer, type two diabetes, obesity, which is the scourge of our country and the world right now, that unbelievable number of people that are obese, dementia is now called type three diabetes. Because the type of food that people are eating, that's creating, co creating these problems with dementia and so forth. So many, many big problems that people are having are, they're all metabolic problems.

Todd McLaughlin: 23:29

The other day, when I saw you, you would recognize that there was some sugar and a beverage and you just poured it out and I was impressed because are you at this point now where if you know there's some sugar in something that you just make an alternate choice for something else, you don't even waste the time just consuming it anyway.

Unknown: 23:52

Go I don't I don't waste my time. And and the main issue if you look at the literature, and it's discussed in my book, and I'm gonna weigh over simplified because there's obviously other factors but the main issues are ultra processed food. America 70 to 80% of what Americans eat or ultra processed, and it's, it's cardboard, it's it's it's corporate food, it's it's made up in a laboratory. It has nothing to do with real food and the other the other big one though, is added sugar. So I'm always careful. I don't mind sugar that's naturally occurring. You know me I love my mangoes and everybody's water sugar in that. Yeah, but there's sugar in that and it's calculated with minerals and vitamins. And it's it goes in the way it's naturally supposed to go in. It's like, Give me a break. I don't. We had a house guest yesterday just to make a point. A lovely 92 year old woman and we just love being with her. And she asked for a cup of coffee and have a little miss Presto machine for people that want a cup of coffee, like myself periodically and I gave her a cup of coffee, and we happen to have some cream. And then I just left it there like she didn't touch it. And then five minutes later, she said, Do you have any sugar? And my wife and I looked at her and said, No, we don't have sugar in the house. And she was aghast that we don't have sugar in the house. Yeah, sugar is the big problem added sugar. It's a chemical. It's a dose dependent chemical toxin, and it creates addiction. It goes right to the same addiction centers that cocaine and heroin go to in the brain. It's unbelievable. So big, big problem. So I wouldn't eat any food with added sugar. And but I also believe in measured indulgence. I'm not going to deny myself a really fabulous piece of tiramisu because I love tiramisu because I go to Italy every now and then yes, but I'm not going to have it every day. I'd have it once a week. And then I let my body take care of the sugar and not put more sugar on top of it for another couple of days or so.

Todd McLaughlin: 26:04

Yeah, interesting. Yeah. In part two, the intention is describe the fluid body. What is the importance or Okay, I'm going in as a manual therapist, or say maybe you can think of a way that this could even correlate to, I'm going to go on my yoga mat. What is identifying the fluid body? Mean? How do I come into contact with that?

Unknown: 26:34

Depending on the research, you look at the Max Planck Institute in in Germany, and they said this 10 years ago, they actually said that 92% of the human body is fluid is water, as opposed to what we see in the textbook 60 70% 92% 92% I've recently heard estimates up to 98% water. As an embryologist, I know that it's in the study of embryology that the embryo is about 99% water. So human beings come in and we are a water being we're a water creature. That's so the fluid body is just a metaphor. For number one, an entrance point into body metabolism, we've got to have another way in other than the muscles. Other than the bones, those are perfectly valid entry points for affecting physiology, and for bridging to metabolism. But there are direct entry points. So if I put my hands on the body, and I visualize the body as being a fluid aquarium, or that I visualize is the color blue, like the ocean that you and I have right across the street from us your data, it's that blue, dark blue, so you can visualize it as dark blue. And then you also come into that relationship with your own body and feel the fluid nature of your body. And in the way in which sensation comes into the body. And your fluid body dissipates it, you can feel waves, you can feel streaming. So it's a different experience of the body that's already there. In we just have trained ourselves away from it way away from this fluid nature of our body.

Todd McLaughlin: 28:18

Interesting, we feel like we've been we've geared ourselves more toward just the skeletal element, the dense the earth element, and we've we've stopped observing the water element. Can you give an example of how that might change either level of depth of touch and or your intended technique to utilize with a treatment? If you are observing water, with more more around water than say, muscle bone?

Unknown: 28:56

Well, well, we're kind of into a teaching seminar now. Okay. Which is fine. It's fine, because I'm not sure the audience everybody in the audience, you know, is a therapist. But it doesn't make any difference. You can meditate on your body, you as manual therapists, we have to be able to feel our own body for See, that's the biggest mistake, I think, you know, all of us were trained on just what are we perceiving with our hands that's coming from the client's body. That's only half the equation because it starts with our own body, because of the way in which our nervous systems synchronize and our cardiovascular system synchronize. So that's part of the equation biodynamically is we got to feel our own body, and we got to feel our own fluid body. How do I sit still, but how do I then begin noticing if my heart is beating? That is creating a ripple or a wave in my body? If I'm breathing, how do I feel the wave like motions of breath coming in and out? Yeah, so it's feeling wave like motion flow. Motion a sense of buoyancy, what feels like it's floating or lifting what part of your body feels like it's being lifted in floating, that's natural buoyancy. Gravity takes the earth element down, okay? The fluid now we're going to switch metaphors the, the element of water, the water element from the sea, no Tibetan tradition, it now we can associate that with the fluid body. But what that does is it lifts it creates buoyancy. So within a yoga and meditation practice, you want to come into a balance of the Earth, what's taking you down, because we need that you got to be grounded, but also what's lifting us up to heaven? And it turns out, that is the fluid body that's lifting us towards heaven, or whatever metaphor you want to use for that.

Todd McLaughlin: 30:50

Cool. Yeah, that's cool. Great answer. Thank you, I think a good good way to turn it from a teaching seminar to a down to earth

Unknown: 31:00

embodied sensory experience and getting into a sense of our body that is grounded, you know, in a deeper in a deeper way, a deeper reality that's pre existing, it's already there.

Todd McLaughlin: 31:15

Yes. You're you wrote, The third intention is describe biodynamic, spiritual healing.

Unknown: 31:26

Well, that came out of the last three years. As I said, a couple of minutes ago, you know, I do a lot of consultations, I never stopped working from the beginning of COVID. In the lockdown, it started with phone calls. And then and then zooming in and all of that. And it became obvious that what was happening is an intensification of duality and intensification to polarity because of the, the excessive states of rage and anger, I experienced multiple states of rage in that first year, I was so freakin mad at the government and this and that. And but I just kept, you know, working my meditation process and working my spiritual process going, Wow, that's a lot of rage. What's all that about? And staying with my practice, and also staying with the teachers that I fall, I began to realize is like, wait a minute, I've got a choice here. And the choice is a spiritual choice. I can buy into the intensity of the anger and rage that's being promoted in the media, and instill is, if any, anytime you follow any social media, it's always there, that the intensity of the polarization, and the whole binary thing that's being constructed in that hole, we see duality and the whole samsaric domain just being manifested all the time. It's a great gift that social media has given us. But on the other hand, there's the gift of the preciousness of human life, and that we have a spiritual practice. And so for me, it was doubling down on my spiritual practice. And I said, Wait a minute, I'm tired of the rage. And I got into afib. So and so my heart didn't like the rage, your heart doesn't like anger is like, Well, wait a minute, this is not hard, healthy, I was one of those metabolically unhealthy hurts. So it's like, let's just double down on my spiritual practice, I'm done, turn off the TV, reduce all of it to a minimum, stay in touch with what is necessary for my family, and my community. And my students and me personally, where my own growth and development was going. So COVID, to me has given us the gift of spiritual, a spiritual opening, to really double down on our spiritual practice, whatever that is. Yoga and meditation is the metaphor you and I are using right now. But, you know, for me early in my career, underlining textbooks was a spiritual practice. I loved it. It was my spiritual practice. So whatever your spiritual practices,

Todd McLaughlin: 34:06

yes, yes. Great answer. Are you is, if I have to have a if I could have a prompt, so if I'm not, if I'm struggling with defining my spiritual healing, because I feel like you're mentioning describe biodynamic, spiritual healing. What what is that? Is there a prompt you could give me to help me to be able to conceptualize my spiritual healing is that is that what you're encouraging people to do here is to do what you've done to double down on focusing on contemplative practices and I mean, it sounds to me like you're saying that that is a critical piece for our healing. I guess when when I see the word like describe biodynamic, spiritual healing, I guess where I'm not sure I'm clear on is what biodynamic spiritual healing is there's the word biodynamic in front of it imply, what we've already spoken of, in relation to the fluid body and, and, and awareness of the water body.

Unknown: 35:29

Well, embodiment of the senses, embodiment of the elements, you know, so when space fire earth water, embodiment of the colors, without elaboration without cognition, and without labeling, so biodynamic, you know, in this context is referring to that level of embodiment. Got it? The, let me explain it this way. So what I just described in terms of my first year, you know, yeah, 1019 or 20, whenever that was like the first year of anger and rage, well, that was a process of what's called spiritual formation. So there's nothing wrong with anger, we're humans, I'm a human, you know, I'm not, yes, I had rage. And I worked through it, I didn't harm other people. But I started to harm myself because I got a fib. So we're humans, anger is natural, you know, but we have to be resilient. And we have to, you know, get back to as quickly as possible that the calm state, what would happen was, from there from the spiritual formation, I went into a level of spiritual maturity, where I actually saw it would be more wise, I had the insight, you know, it would be smarter, if you didn't even allow your mind to get into a rage state, if you just did more of your spiritual practice, which for me, is Buddhist meditation, and so forth. It's, it could be something different for other people. So the spiritual maturation is is a really important point. That's your discipline that your effort you're putting into your practice. And, and it grows, because from there, you get insight into Oh, this is valuable, not just because I took a webinar or zoom in and learn how to meditate, but oh, I can actually feel more embodiment, I can feel a calmer state of mind, or I didn't react when my wife just did, the usual thing that really sets me off is like, when you're spiritually mature, you can, you're more empathetic, you're more empathetic to what's happening in the world. And you see the level of suffering, that's generating the anger of rage. But the third stage is called spiritual authority. Now, a lot of my friends don't like the word spiritual authority, because it has a masculine edge to it, but it means that you and I, and everyone listening to this has the capacity to have a direct experience of the sacred, whatever that means, for you a direct experience of the sacred, the Transubstantiation of bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, the the, the ability to have communication from the Holy Spirit, the ability to enter into non referential awareness and communicate, as a Buddha, and so forth. So these are direct experiences. And guess what I began having that I was just like, well, this is kind of ordinary, as long as I reduce emotions, reduce the cognitions and really stabilize, I can have a more direct experience with the sacred, you know, in that level of contact, when I had began having that experience taught, it's just like, I'm done. I don't need any of this other stuff. I don't need to get into the center of culture and in buy into any of all that, yes, I understand it. Yes, it's suffering. And also that's people's spiritual maturation. I don't see it as impure anymore. I see it as people's, the way in which they're going through their spiritual formation and into their spiritual maturity.

Todd McLaughlin: 39:27

Thank you. I appreciate you elaborating a little further on that. I feel like I have that a little clearer now. Yeah,

Unknown: 39:33

that's that's and that's pretty well elaborated in that section of the book because I have a number of voices that I wanted in the book. I wanted to Christian voice I wanted a Buddhist voice. I wanted other voices. Yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 39:45

that's smart. I'm part four. Describe the stillness is describing the stillness and to thesis to the stillness.

Unknown: 40:02

Of course, because it created it makes it dualistic. But you got to have a starting point, you know, and this was actually, one of the more fun parts of the book, you know, it was the first part, I had to read all this science on metabolism and in the words are 10 and 12 and 15 syllables, and they throw other care. So here's the, here's the situation back to the fluid body. In the book, there's a discussion of the embryo and how you access the embryo because that's just an another metaphor, how you access your originality. Because in healing work, what we do in in manual therapy, at least wise from the osteopathic tradition, and the shamanic traditions that I've been exposed to, you really want to have a sense that you're creating a space for people to access were the way they were you at the origin of their body, and that's the embryo read conception, and that's called original wholeness. So that's why embryology is so important is because we were originally whole we were a single celled human being in in in incredibly pristine wholeness, and then, man, trillions of cells later, and we're into a very differentiated wholeness, and a very complicated homeless because of genetics and so forth. And it's difficult to knit the body together when that wholeness is fractured metabolically or physiologically. However, the anthropological literature because I was I had to study medical anthropology in my doctoral work, especially around shamanism, like the early medical systems, what were the original medical systems in those original medical systems and there's they're still out there today, because even in in Tibetan Medicine, and classical Chinese medicine in our, your Vedic, you'll still encounter it. And that is if regressing back to your embryo regressing in the present moment, not going back to that moment, but, but accessing the origin forces as they were at that moment that are present. Now, if that doesn't work, what do you do? Plan B is actually then you have to go back to the origin of the cosmos. So in this section of the book, I've spent the last seven or eight years researching that one section, how does healing happen? How do you create a healing ritual and even with your hands, based on cosmology. So I want to reference the meditation we did at the very beginning, when you look your eyes up, and you're looking at the center of the universe, in terms of working with your vision that way, that's what I mean, that generates an orientation to cosmology to the, to the universe, as it is now, and potentially, as it was at the beginning. And then when you get to the beginning, then there's, you know, there's different competing theories, even within the Tibetan Buddhist approach, there's two or three cosmological stories of origin, because you try to get away from the non dualistic, you know, the big bang, and you try to get into what are called spontaneous origin. And so a spontaneous originality where it just boom, the universe boom popped into existence, that has to be a possibility within any cosmology. Wow. I could go on, please do

Todd McLaughlin: 43:29

do well, what what's another, the third word is one of the other cosmology?

Unknown: 43:35

Well, I, what I do now is, and in the book, I speak to it in especially in Section Five. So I really try to integrate three cosmology, so the cosmology, the Tibetan Buddhist cosmology, and it's really getting down to the five elements in the five colors as they were at the beginning of the universe. So that's why you want to get into wind, water, space, fire, and so forth, is that's the way they were at the beginning. So if we could orient our perceptual processes, the five elements in Oregon or perceptual process to the five colors, as it said, in Tibetan Buddhism, those five colors were the very first appearance of enlightened mind from the five colors, then you have the five elements. All right. So there, there is a staging. That way, it's all very clever, and it's all very dualistic. But nonetheless, it gives you something to hang on to because it takes you into a non dualistic space. In the Taoist cosmology Tao is cosmology is a little bit different. And but I love it. It's more of a sense of embodiment around the umbilicus. Because in Dallas cosmology, it's the origin of the universe happens as a result of what's coming in through your umbilicus and so acupuncture point It's all around the umbilicus are named after stars in the universe. Because endow is cosmology, you try to create a harmony between the universe, your body and the earth. Okay, so heaven Earth and man it's called. So the hands on techniques that I'm promoting, because I always will add in a Taoist hand position in order to create harmony. And it means that the fulcrum of our work needs to be around the abdomen and the umbilicus. At that, at that level of understanding, wow. So that's the second. And I'm really oversimplifying all this because I know some of you listening to this are really know much more about acupuncture than I do, and Taoism in general, but there is a third cosmology. And the third cosmology is our cosmology, the book of Genesis, and what I've studied, and I've been mentored, and she, she actually died a year ago on Christmas Eve. But I've been mentored since the mid 70s, by a capitalist, a woman who is an expert in the Kabbalah, and that's the mystical part of the Jewish tradition, having to do with the Tree of Life in the book of Genesis, in Sutherlands cosmology, because that's the way the cranial model started, he talked about the breadth of life, that's Genesis. So the model of cranial work is already imbued with a cosmology, a Christian cosmology. And I wanted to know that, so the breath of life is associated with light, not the breath. And the second thing is, if there's two trees, remember the tree of good and evil, but we have the tree of life. And when you study the tree of life, that takes you into Jewish mysticism. And what I wanted to share, you know, quickly, and not get to elaborated on is the tree of life as your vascular tree. So the hands on healing that I do, is to see that the whole vascular tree, including the heart, is the tree of life, and that it's one hole that's connected to the universe. And so the orientation in the book, then in the fifth chapter, or the fifth section, is to then create a perceptual process in a hands on process, that you can actually touch the universe and the fluid body. Yeah, but boy, you can feel a pulse. And you can feel the vascular tree,

Todd McLaughlin: 47:31

yes. Great way of explaining or bringing more meaning to either our yoga, our hands on modalities, or our meditation practice to think of the vascular system, as you know, the beat of the universal vascular system. Nice,

Unknown: 47:57

amazing, it fits very well, because the research on empathy is very clear. And I mean, the gateway that I offered to myself first and then to my students, is you got to feel your heartbeat. Because when you feel your heartbeat without having to take a pulse, it actually generates empathy. It generates emotional empathy, research is really clear on this. So I spend a lot of my waking day and when I wake up in the middle of the night, you know, and feeling my heartbeat, then I continue to really listen to my heartbeat, feel my heartbeat. And then what I do is, is I tell my students, I like to recite a poem or a prayer that I've memorized. And I do that non verbally in the cadence of my heartbeat, to increase emotional empathy. And it's really helped with with a lot of clients, I can really feel emotionally, much more deeply what's going on.

Todd McLaughlin: 48:53

Do you recommend just stilling the body and trying to feel the heartbeat through bringing your attention to the heart? Are you recommending people to place like light touch at the artery somewhere where they can feel the pulse through through their own touch of their own artery?

Unknown: 49:11

Generally, in meditation practice, you'll feel your heartbeat sooner or later. Of course, when I'm in a classroom, I'm teaching manual therapy, about 25% of the students cannot sit there and feel their heartbeat. And so you feel your carotid artery or take your pulse at your radial artery. And then I tell those folks, look, you get up in the middle of night, you go pee, you come back, you lay down in bed, notice your heartbeat because everything else is quiet and hopefully your mind is quiet. And you can feel your heartbeat then let that be the place that the fulcrum for you build an awareness during your waking day for your heartbeat.

Todd McLaughlin: 49:51

And you use the personal mantra that you have and or prayer and or affirmation at the rhythm of your pulse. That's a great idea. So that's your drum beat. That's the drumbeat. And you're just gonna now get your get some sort of like internal mantra chant, go into that drum beat of your heart, right? That's great. I haven't heard that one yet.

Unknown: 50:15

Which is great, because I learned a really cool mantra for Tibetan Medicine this year. And so that's the one I've been using lately is that particular mantra, and it fits, you know, all of us listening have either memorized a poem or a prayer or a phrase or something that we say to ourselves, but, and you can do that. And whether it's a mantra or whatever, it's perfect

Todd McLaughlin: 50:42

right now. And I just thought I'd try to do it. While you're explaining that. It felt like my heart rate slowed down immediately. Maybe I was just,

Unknown: 50:52

your heart rate will automatically self adjust when you're doing this when you have a tension on it. And the challenge is that you we have 93% of Americans that have an unhealthy heart. And so this is actually safe, you can do it this way. And I've had many heart patients. And you also have to be cautious. So what I will say to people is you listening to your heartbeat, but if you go into tech, a cardio, if your heartbeat increases, you've got to stop it and do something else. Because this isn't the right time or the place to be putting conscious attention on your heartbeat. Even though you're not doing anything, you're not manipulating it with your breath. Just placing simple attention on your heart.

Todd McLaughlin: 51:38

Do you mean for some people that will actually elevate the heart rate and just speed it up because the awareness had been brought to an almost creates this sort of nervousness, because there's a, there's

Unknown: 51:48

a, it's because we're metabolically unhealthy and physiologically and metabolically that comes together in the heart with a combination of nerves that are very susceptible to thought processes. And those thought processes can be very triggering. So that's why I don't do I don't teach breathwork anymore, because too many people were getting triggered in the class. And all I was teaching was coherent breathing, six seconds, inhale, six seconds, exhale, and I'm looking at 20, or 25% of people are raising their hands saying, because that's what I say, raise your hand. And then with your hand raised, get up and walk out and get out of the room and start walking around in order to lower your heart rate.

Todd McLaughlin: 52:33

Yeah. It's powerful,

Unknown: 52:36

it is very, very powerful. And these are skills and techniques that we can use, and we need to use. But let's say for instance, going back to the beginning, the okay the heart rate meditation, that's one meditation, but I can tell you now the eye gaze, I haven't heard anybody complain about that, that lifting the eyes and looking at the center of the universe, as long as you don't dissociate. So that's why I said at the beginning, you've got to get grounded in the gravity and the earth element of your body. If you just kind of sit down and willy nilly dissociate, then that can be really triggering as well, you've got to stay grounded in the earth element of your body, in order to see the wisdom of the universe, which is inside of you. And it's actually inside your heart.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:25

Sometimes it seems like Michael, like I know how amazing pranayama practices breathing practice, I really appreciate what you just mentioned, as I pay attention to my heartbeat and and use a mantra. And, and then so I had someone today asked me, like, you know, how come I read one place that you know, someone died from practicing pranayama? And, you know, you get maybe you get a few situations where people, you know, have some sort of negative reaction to these practices, which then for me begs the question, for too careful about embarking on utilizing these practices, then maybe we will might not even use them at all. So is the outcome of using the practices, even if there are a few situations where it's people aren't able to handle it, that the overall outcome could be more positive than if we did it? Does that make sense?

Unknown: 54:28

Well, yeah, it makes perfect sense. Because that that's been, you know, looked at a lot, you know, so how do we mitigate you know, these these reactions and the side effects from yogic practices? What

Todd McLaughlin: 54:40

actually feels really good and works?

Unknown: 54:43

Oh, my god, yeah. It's like, how did that happen? Well, we know how it happened now, but But it means that it's it's kind of solidified in the body and then how do you undo that? And that gets into the field of what's called trauma informed care. Yep. And We're assuming that in some way, you know, there's been a trauma, we don't have to know what it what it is. But what we have to do is we have to let people know. And I mean, that's called a trigger alert. And if we're going to teach an esoteric practice, you have to say, and this is what I do with my students. And that's why I always start with heartbeat, the moment you feel your heartbeat get up, you have to get up and leave the room and start walking, and just walk it off until you're calm again. So you have to give people the okay in the green light to take care of themselves. Yeah, and you and I both know that a lot of people are going to gut it out, and they're going to try to push through it. And we've all done that. And we've all snapped a ligament or two. And so and I know from you know, taking the the yoga training hear you and Tamra and the other teachers are constantly saying back off back off, don't you know, don't go to barrier all the time, don't and don't go beyond the barrier. Easier said than done. But metabolically you have to recognize when your heart rate is up, when you start you know getting nauseated or you get a headache that's, that's a metabolic reaction. Or when you feel lightheaded, those type of thing, and you've got to get up and leave the practice and be willing to take care of yourself.

Todd McLaughlin: 56:26

I think that's a really great point, Michael building into our communities that it's okay to express that, hey, I'm having a hard time and building the space for making it easy for people to actually take care of themselves. Because I sometimes you almost feel like, if I get up, it's gonna distract everybody. I'm nervous, what if I caused a stink? What if I, you know, and all that even creates more trauma. So making it worse, very clear, like if this isn't working for you, but I like that you said actually get up and consciously walk out, it seems like that's a really good thing, because he'd be just sitting in a group of our peers might actually stimulate more anxiety just from that we're knowing that they might judge us or you know, that type of thing. So to get up, get out walk, right, that's a really good suggestion.

Unknown: 57:12

People don't trust their body, you know, and we're, you know, we're trying to teach yoga and meditation. And that implies that we're trying to teach people to trust their body, and, and to embody their senses. And if your senses are saying, Wow, my heart is elevated, that's not healthy. And let me explore that, let me get out of here. And the way you explore is you go back to the element of space, you have to make space, you have to get up and get out of the environment you're in. Or if you want to stay in that environment, you have to have the skill of making space and decompressing and getting into a resilient state. But it's all about the element of space. And that that sense of originality.

Todd McLaughlin: 57:56

One thing I really appreciate about this opportunity, Michael to sit here with you is when when I started this podcast, you were kind enough to come on really early on when I was just starting and that gave me an incredible amount of feeling like I could do it, you know, I was nervous about asking people to come on and and I really respect what you do. And I so it really helps me to feel like okay, maybe I could do this, and you've come back, this is your fourth time. And but it's been a it is such a pleasure to watch your maturation process. And, and I'm just so thankful for this opportunity. And I feel like you've become you know, sometimes when you have a teacher and then you you know, you want to bow down to them, put them on a pedestal. And over the years, you've been so gracious and keeping our friendship, a friendship and not something that is elevated and odd like that. And so I'm just really thankful for this and just want to express my gratitude to for everything that you've shared with me over the years. And with us listening and your willingness to do that. This book is amazing. I have to admit, I just, I just wonder how you do it. I really like I just wonder how you do it. Honestly, I've always had the dream of producing some sort of written material. And I would probably be really happy with like a 10 page book. But this one is like this check in like 421 It's a tome. It's a big, thick book, and it just amazes me like how do you do that? How do you do it? How do you get focused enough to sit down and research for so many years? And obviously, you're very interested in the subject. If you weren't interested in this subject you would have given up 35 years ago. But is there any advice you can offer any of us fledgling creators who are like wanting to speak our voice wanting to share our story? And to be able to get to this point where I can hold this book in my hands. I'm just curious, can you give me any advice?

Unknown: 1:00:06

Well, a lot of it is locked in.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:00:10

So it's just luck. I just can't keep rolling the dice every day. Just wake up and roll. And it's

Unknown: 1:00:16

at a very practical level, because, you know, this is my seventh book that I published in a very practical level. My first two or three books were all written longhand, I mean, written longhand. And then, like, the first one was typed up on my wife. But now there's dictation software. And what I do is, you know, if I'm lecturing, and I go, Oh, and I write something on the board, I use the flip charts. When I teach, I take photographs of them, I get home, and I use my smartphone. And I either use Siri or Gmail, and I dictate an essay. Because they end it usually picks up the dictation software, and I was really good. Yes. And I just send myself an email with a new essay I in these goofy Apple watches. Now, I can sit at the beach. And you know, because I love meditating down there. And I'll have an idea. And I can send myself an email. And I have dictated in at least two chapters in that book into my watch at the beach ice, and then it's an email, I cut and paste it into a Word doc, and I edit from there. But it's the editing process. I don't every chapter in that book has been probably 15 to 20 Go throughs

Todd McLaughlin: 1:01:30

go over and over and over, are you doing that or someone else doing it for you, I'm

Unknown: 1:01:35

doing it. And then I was assigned three different editors. This is a big time publisher and I had three editors go through it. So

Todd McLaughlin: 1:01:43

this publisher is well the

Unknown: 1:01:46

the publishers inner traditions, but the imprint is called sacred planet books. And it's an imprint within that publisher from my former publisher.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:01:59

Man, I just gotta give you some kudos because it's just what a it's kind of feel good to follow through and finish a project like this.

Unknown: 1:02:10

Yeah, there's a tedious part two gave me a Like there was, you know, just like, you know, because then my wife will start complaining, okay, we don't have time together, which is valid and inaccurate, because all of a sudden, I'll say, Look, I need three hours because the publisher just said this chapter. And it was like, Oh, my God, three hours and that was date night. So you know, so there's, you know,

Todd McLaughlin: 1:02:35

when when she's going off to the restroom, you got your you're out to watch out. Get another sentence or two in their exams back, you like pull the watch under the table. Right, exactly,

Unknown: 1:02:47

exactly. I do that. I mean, if I have an idea, I'll just put it onto the wall and send myself a note.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:02:53

All right. Well, that's a good tidbit of advice. I appreciate that. Well, what a joy, Michael, thank you so much. Great. Pleasure. Always a great pleasure. Well, thank you. This has really just been a treat. So I can't wait till next time.

Unknown: 1:03:07

Yeah. And and we've got our meditation course coming out. So tation

Todd McLaughlin: 1:03:11

course is out. Yeah, it's out now. Right? Yeah. So all of these links. Remember to check out Michael. Your website is Michael che teaching.com che Hart che Hart? Sorry, that was a heart dot che heart.com. There's going to be a link to find the book. Would you like them if anyone wants to purchase it to go to where's the best way for them to go about

Unknown: 1:03:33

what they can get it directly from inner traditions or they can which is there sit there sending it out? Now? It's not going to be released through Amazon until late January. You can preorder on Amazon and get it in the mail. If you like Jeff Bezos is, you know, business model. All

Todd McLaughlin: 1:03:47

right, fair enough. And our course is available native yoga. online.com. That link is here to break. Awesome, Michael. Well, let's do it again.

Unknown: 1:03:56

Let's do it again. Ty.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:03:59

Native yoga Todd cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com. And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time