Barbara Courtille - Helping Yoga Teachers become successful Yoga Professionals

I am proud to present to you this episode called Helping Yoga Teachers become successful Yoga Professionals with Barbara Courtille. Barbara has been practicing Yoga for 25 years. It is her longest and greatest love. Barbara said, "Making Yoga my professional career is the best thing I have done." If you know that this is the life you want to create for yourself, she can help you to make it happen. Check out this episode to hear tips that Barbara shares to help yogis level up.

​Visit Barbara on her website here: https://www.barbaracourtille.com
Follow here on Instagram here: @Barbara_courtille_yoga

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Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native yoga, Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us native yoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Welcome to Native Yoga, Toddcast, I'm so happy to have you here. Today, I have the chance to bring Barbara Courtille onto the show. Barbara is located in Sydney in Australia, she was kind enough to coordinate our schedule so the times could work where we could be on the other side of the world and join up here for a conversation. Please check her out at Barbaracortile.com. Also on our Instagram page,@Barbara_cortille_yoga. And those links are located in the description below wherever you'd like to listen to your podcast. And on that note, why wait any longer? Let's get to it. I'm so excited to have Barbara Cor here today with me, Barbara, how are things going for you?

Barbara Courtille: 1:52

Great, I'm really happy to be talking to you on the other side of the world, Todd, thanks for having me.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:56

I know I love the fact that we can communicate like this through a platform like zoom, and a word of the podcast and that it's really an easy way to actually go about communicating. I love it. It's kind of amazing, isn't it?

Barbara Courtille: 2:10

Yeah. And I'm a big fan of podcasts. I listen to yours amongst many others, as my learning and keeping motivated and just finding out what people are thinking all around the world and connecting to other yoga teachers who are you know, my favorite people, basically?

Todd McLaughlin: 2:26

I hear Yeah, can you give me a little bit of your background and relation to how you first fell in love with yoga?

Barbara Courtille: 2:33

Yeah, I started back in the 80s. In the late 80s. When I was you know, in my early 20s, I had a boyfriend who was a yogi. And I was more of an arty kid. You know, I was into art. I always wanted to be an artist. And I did that for many years. But His thing was yoga meditation, he traveled to India and he used to do i anger yoga and headstands and all Koreas and all sorts of weird stuff to me back then. Yeah. And he's the one who took me to my first yoga class, which was an i anger class. And that was not actually a great experience. Because my first class I was expected to do handstands and all sorts of things that my body was not happy to do. So and I can remember the teacher who was an older woman, well, older, probably younger than me now, but at the time, she seemed she kind of shame me, you know, in the eye angle way that they do. Gotcha. And get up, you can do this. So it wasn't a great experience, that first yoga class. So it's kind of a miracle that I'm still doing yoga all these years later. And it's basically my whole life. That's

Todd McLaughlin: 3:43

amazing. Was that in? You're living in Sydney currently? Where did you grow up?

Barbara Courtille: 3:49

My early years, I grew up in Paris till I was 10. And then I came to Sydney. So I've lived in Sydney, most of my life.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:56

Nice. Was that first class in Sydney?

Barbara Courtille: 4:01

First class in Sydney, was

Todd McLaughlin: 4:03

that first practice session that you had with your boyfriend with a younger teacher in Australia, or was that somewhere else?

Barbara Courtille: 4:10

No, totally in Sydney. Yes. Gotcha.

Todd McLaughlin: 4:13

And then from there, then obviously, if you were not enamored, and you walked away from that sounds like maybe saying, What in the world was that? What then was your next step? Or how long was it before you had another yoga practice experience?

Barbara Courtille: 4:28

I think after that I did some meditation. And that didn't that didn't gel with me as well. It was very strict Buddhist meditation. So I didn't have a great start to yoga, but for some reason, I think I ended up in some what were then called Hatha classes, and back then you used to do them like in church halls or at you know, the police center or whatever it was called a P yc. I forget anyway, it wasn't like the fancy yoga studios like your studio. There was none of that stuff back then. And it was very much And people's lounge rooms and all that. So I think I probably found some much more mellow, lovely kind of teachers that weren't gonna ask me to do anything nasty like turn upside down. Ready to took me many years before I could do a proper handstand with all the proper, you know, structure that you need for that.

Todd McLaughlin: 5:19

Yeah. Do you have a teacher that you can say that you credit your learning to? Or from? Or have you just learned from a whole bunch of different teachers along the way?

Barbara Courtille: 5:31

I've learned from a whole bunch of teachers along the way. Yeah, I've never been a lineage kind of teacher either. I've explored different lineages. I think it's just in my nature to try different things and find my own way. So I've been we did a lot, we did the Hatha Yoga, then I went back to the eye angles, believe it or not, and then I was into Jeevan Mukti for a long time. And then I was more into vinyasa than I was into Yin that I was doing sound healing. So I've done all this stuff, restorative yoga, and I just keep going and changing and learning as much as I can and incorporating what what resonates with me.

Todd McLaughlin: 6:11

Wonderful. What does a practice session look like for you today?

Barbara Courtille: 6:19

So this morning, I did some yoga in bed. Nice. And then I got up and did a bit of asana practice, very simple. Plugging into the body noticing where our whole tension, which for me is generally in the upper body, so I do a lot of work on the upper body, opening the chest, opening the heart, I work a lot on the chakra system and the energy body. So I do some meditation to tune in some chanting to feel where the energy is flowing, where it might be stagnant, where it might be overflowing. And it's from that observation that are then direct my practice. So it will look different every day. But there are some things that tend to always be there, like the throat, throat chakra is a bit of a weakness for me, I just had a little bit of manuka honey and did a bit of throat exercises before talking to you because it's always a little bit weak. That part for me, yeah, the upper body, a lot of upper body, I'm quite strong in my lower body. I'm quite grounded, as by nature spend a lot of time in nature. I like to meditate in nature every day, if I can, if the weather's good, so I'll go I'm lucky I live near a BHRT near some nature, Bush, we call it here in Australia. And so I'll go and find a rock and I'll do a bit of meditation. And that's, that's really my most nurturing practice meditation.

Todd McLaughlin: 7:48

That's cool. I noticed a follow you on Instagram that you have a couple pictures or pictures of you practicing on a rock is that the rock that you're talking about?

Barbara Courtille: 7:58

That rock is called Swamis rock. It's not where I live, but it's where I go on retreat. So two or three or four times a year, if I'm lucky, I'll go to the ashram which is not far from where I live maybe an hour away in nature. And that's a particular rock where a swami here in Australia has been practicing for many, many years. So it's got a lot of great energy.

Todd McLaughlin: 8:20

Nice. Do I noticed that your yoga coach and mentor, when did that role come into play for you?

Barbara Courtille: 8:31

I think it probably came into play fully when COVID came along. And when a lot of teachers suddenly had to become or realize that they were business owners, and that they had to find their own community, their own tribe and take charge of their own business or their own passion. Yeah, without relying on studios, or whatever they were relying on before that time. So that's when a lot of yoga teachers, as you know, you know, kind of had a little bit of a pivot into becoming more business minded because they had to. Yes. So there was a lot of demand when COVID came along, when everyone was having, you know,

Todd McLaughlin: 9:20

yeah, that was pretty intense. Very intense. Isn't it? Amazing that now we can like talk like it's past tense?

Barbara Courtille: 9:28

Yeah, no, it's great.

Todd McLaughlin: 9:30

It's really great to find wisdom. We survived on a lot of different levels. I agree.

Barbara Courtille: 9:37

Do you actually think yoga teachers did exceptionally well as if we can put them all in a group because obviously, we're all different within that group. And as a tribe, I think they, from what I've observed, did really well in terms of like pivoting and changing, keeping their spirits up and keeping the spirits of all the people around them up? You know, it was It wasn't an easy task. So congratulations to all the yoga teachers out there.

Todd McLaughlin: 10:05

That's a really great point in when you say like, you know, yoga teachers did really well, what if you had to pick a demographic or a group that you observe that didn't do so? Well? The rest of the world? I'm joking, but was there like a, you know, something that you observed in your local community and or that you just felt really bad for them? Or just thought like, Oh, that looks really rough, or I wonder how they're gonna get through that? Or, you know, was there something that you saw that really pulled at your heartstrings?

Barbara Courtille: 10:37

Yeah, I think parents, parents, especially parents, that had to homeschool, I just, I'm not a parent. But I have a lot of students who are parents, and also yoga teachers who are parents, and it's just like, wow, doing all of that. I mean, parenting in general is always, I think, a big feat, as well as your job and having a family and doing all of this stuff. But during that when people had to homeschool as well, I just thought, wow, that is that is a big feat.

Todd McLaughlin: 11:07

Yeah, there was challenging, no doubt. I'm curious, do you have a background that then when you were able to coach to yoga teachers to figure out a way to kind of get on their feet with maybe the zoom and or business coaching? Do you have a background that that you've trained in, that's helped you to get to this point?

Barbara Courtille: 11:27

I have a lot of admin experience. I was an executive assistant for many years. So I'm very organized. Yes, I'm particularly techie. But I know who to ask.

Todd McLaughlin: 11:42

Nice. What point had you been working in the digital platform realm? Like I noticed that you have you have online courses, you have a course called create a successful yoga business? Did you have something like that in place prior to pandemic? Or is that something that you were able to develop? On the fly?

Barbara Courtille: 12:03

That's actually quite new I developed when the pandemic No, I wasn't online at all, before the pandemic. I had, I developed a chakra course that was the first online course that I did. And then I did a yin yoga course, online. And this is my third one, which is and this one's more business, business directed, rather than practice directed,

Todd McLaughlin: 12:28

nice. I saw one of your Instagram posts recently that you highlighted a yoga teacher in the Northern Territory up in Darwin. And she you kind of highlighted how she went from being like a studio manager to a studio owner. Did you travel to Darwin to see her studio and or practice with her? Yes, that's

Barbara Courtille: 12:51

exactly what happened. Yes, cool. So when we were finally able to fly out of the city, which was only earlier this year, I went up to Darwin, because that's the place that I could go without going overseas. And also, because it's amazing. Like, it's an amazing place. Beautiful nature, the Outback, it's really very powerful, very spiritual place. And yes, I contacted her before I went up to say if I could interview her, and also our practice there, because when you travel, you need yoga more than any other time. Yeah. The climate is very, very hot up there, adjusting to the climate and the diet, and just traveling in general is exhausting. So that's when you really need to do your yoga practice.

Todd McLaughlin: 13:33

Agreed. Had you been to that part of Australia before was like a first time trip? No, I had been there before. Nice. Yeah. That's cool. I had a chance to live in Australia for a little while, but I did not make it to the Northern Territory. And I regret that sounds. It's amazing. It's never too late. It's never too late. I agree with you. I agree. And and what are you currently in relation to coaching yoga teachers? What some advice that you give to someone who's maybe just finished a yoga teacher training program, and they're wondering, like, where do I begin? What how can I start to cultivate a yoga career.

Barbara Courtille: 14:20

If you just come out of training, the best thing to do is do as much teaching as you can, wherever you can. Don't be fussy. Because that's the first thing you need to get your legs and confidence in. And you can only do that through teaching. So teach, teach, teach, whoever it is your neighbors, your family, go and teach as much as you can. That's the first number one thing because you need to have, you know, you know what it's like like, it's not easy when you haven't done it before, unless you've got teaching background and I think teachers, people with a teaching background have have you know, an advantage that they've already had all public speaking and all that sort of stuff. But if that's not your back proud that you really, really need to get in there and get as many hours under your belt as possible just for your own confidence.

Todd McLaughlin: 15:06

Yeah. Good point. Do you remember the first time you taught somebody

Barbara Courtille: 15:12

I was teaching people to people before I did my training, I think I used to because so much sugar, I can remember being in Cuba and teaching people on the beach. I think I saw myself as a bit of a yoga teacher, before I was a yoga teacher, I must have had it in me somewhere. But in terms of like, when I was doing my training here in Sydney, with my teacher, Matt Bergen, I was teaching before I'd finished to practice. But I was teaching like not getting paid just with people that I knew. I wasn't allowed to call it yoga, yoga classes because of insurance or because I didn't have my certificate, I can't remember the reason. So it was just a call out, I can't remember what it was. But I was already teaching before I'd finished because I knew from experience that you need to just get in there and do it. So by the time I'd finished my training, I'd already done quite a few hours of teaching. And my teacher then gave me a job in that studio. So then I just went for it.

Todd McLaughlin: 16:17

Nice. And when you when you started teaching, I'm curious. Were the class sizes? Like one person, five people, big classes, 20 people? What was the likes feel or size of the classes at that time?

Barbara Courtille: 16:32

It was a pretty small studio. So it wasn't like 50 people or anything like that the most would have been maybe 12 or 15. Yeah, yeah, I started I got the, you know, the dodgy hours when I went turns out. There were a lot of times when they they'd be like, you know, two people. There were a few times when there was only one person I never liked that. I always felt very awkward about one person. One person being there. It was always very strange. I tend to really like big classes.

Todd McLaughlin: 17:04

Yeah, yeah. Class, I hear ya, I hear ya. I mean, occasionally, we have a situation where, you know, maybe just one person will show up for class. And I always try to spin it like, Oh, this is gonna be a great opportunity, because we're going to do a private today. Yeah, yeah. But I hear Yeah, there can be that little bit of awkward sensation or feeling of like, you know, like, when you go to a restaurant, and you're the only person sitting in the restaurant, you're like, what, what, what's going on here? You know, like, should I be here? And so yeah, it's interesting psychology to try to like, shift that really fast. And be like, I'm so excited. We have this opportunity. We're going to, what do you want to work on and make it really personal, but I hear you big classes are fun. Yeah, well, that's cool. And are you? So how far do you travel all around Australia? Like weather places? Have you been in Australia?

Barbara Courtille: 17:59

Yeah, I've traveled all around Australia. Yep. Very cool. It's full place. I encourage you to come back.

Todd McLaughlin: 18:05

Do I would love to do? Do you ever go back to Paris or France.

Barbara Courtille: 18:11

I went back a few years ago, I lived there for about six months, I went back to Paris, my place of birth. And I really wanted to find out how I would feel about it as an adult to just live there. Because previous to that we you know, just go on vacation and visit the family and so forth. Yeah, run around the country and do all that. But I wanted to just be there, stay there. I went to the local yoga studio every day. And I just had a little apartment. And I just wanted to know what it what it would have been like if I'd actually if my parents hadn't come to Australia, and if I'd been stayed as a French person. Yeah. Experience, which was interesting.

Todd McLaughlin: 18:50

Do your parents still live in Australia?

Barbara Courtille: 18:53

I've just got my dad now. And yes, he lives just up the road for me in Australia and Sydney.

Todd McLaughlin: 18:57

Wonderful. Wonderful. That's cool. What is the yoga studio vibe currently in Australia in relation to I'm guessing COVID might have caused people to have to shut down and therefore maybe not everybody stayed open. What is the vibe now are people did a lot of people were able to hang on or as has everything shut down and people are reopening. What's the current vibe?

Barbara Courtille: 19:24

I think a lot of places have shut down. Yes, there's not that many boutique yoga studios around I've just moved from the other side of the city. So I'm in a new territory where I am. It's quite different. The scene where I was on the other side of the bridge, there was a lot more yoga and a lot more kind of traditional yoga in a sense, but yes, a lot of gyms are absorbing yoga now and a lot of Pilates studios. So Pilates I don't know what it's like in Florida, but here in Sydney Pilates has taken over the world. It's kind of like yoga used to be like maybe I don't know. 20 years ago, you know when yoga and yeah, it was really hot. Yeah, well, now it's Pilates. Everyone is doing Pilates. So some Pilates studios incorporate yoga. I'm not sure why. Because to me, it's completely different. Yeah. But they seem to think that it's cinema. And so yeah, that's happening. And then a lot of the gyms are kind of sprucing up their gyms a bit and making them look a little bit more yoga, like, rather than putting yoga in the middle of all the machines and so forth.

Todd McLaughlin: 20:29

Interesting. And so you had made a post about how you were just kind of reminiscing a little bit about the boutique yoga studio, I think it was in reference to when you visited your friend and the Northern Territory, and that you were noticed or making mention that you appreciated the boutique element as opposed to like these larger behemoth, like corporate yoga, structured places. Does Australia have something like here we had Yoga works, which, interestingly enough, just shut down all of their locations. But has there been like a big corporate yoga monster that's tried to dominate the scene? They're

Barbara Courtille: 21:12

not as big as Yoga works? Yeah, I think that was a big surprise to everyone that they closed down. So you never know what what's behind the scenes in these big corporations? Yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 21:23

that's true. Yeah, I

Barbara Courtille: 21:25

think there's like some gyms like Fitness First, or our look, I'm not very ofay with gyms, to be honest. But yeah, there are some bigger places that tend to absorb all the things but you know, yeah. yoga studios, very special places.

Todd McLaughlin: 21:41

I agree. I agree for sure. That's cool. And so are you currently teaching classes are more focusing on the mentoring aspect?

Barbara Courtille: 21:55

I'm focusing on the mentoring but I'm still teaching. I love teaching. Like I love it. Yeah. But I don't want to teach too many classes because I burn out pretty quickly. Yeah, because I, I give too much. They get a bit too passionate. So I'm very careful about that. I'm only teaching probably now that I've moved. It's changed again, I've had about nine classes. And now I think I'm probably down to about six or seven. But in general, we're going to be trading a lot more and then trainings come and listen that comes but generally speaking, I'm not teaching that much but enough to keep my finger in and enough to sort of keep you know that passion burning for teaching because I love teaching.

Todd McLaughlin: 22:38

Yes. I hear Yeah, it is amazing. When the classes that you have on schedule, are you teaching predominantly in or do you walk in and mix it up every time?

Barbara Courtille: 22:52

No, I'm doing half half my classes are hotter classes, the other class half a year and so I try to keep that that balance of Sun and Moon.

Todd McLaughlin: 23:01

Yes. Yeah. What's the most challenging situation you've come across recently in teaching?

Barbara Courtille: 23:10

Um, I taught it a new place the other day wasn't challenging. It was funny, but it didn't it did. Did maybe give more insight I was saying I didn't want cash when I was on a downward dog and then when Mukesh rhinos and I brought by and some woman because chatted out can you speak English, please? So that took me by surprise, because you know, I don't know these people it was I was filling in for someone. And I was like, oh, because nobody hears the sound scream. I think it's really important to connect back to source, but always say the English as well. But she didn't give me a chance to get to the English. But anyway, she probably just frustrated at the Sanskrit. So that was that was funny.

Todd McLaughlin: 23:52

Yeah, it is interesting, isn't it? Like if I feel like I'm honoring the tradition by using the Sanskrit term, but it's amazing how sometimes that really throws people for a spin.

Barbara Courtille: 24:04

Huh? Yeah, yeah. And it was an interesting experience and sometimes you can't make assumptions because the teacher that I was filling in for said to me she said to me, I don't do anything too spiritual. No chanting No, this no that the other and I just ended up doing a class like I normally would like to start with some Pranayamas and asanas and meditation because that's just all well rounded class. Yeah. But then the next day, I got a message from the gym owner saying how, how much they loved it and she got feedback. And so it was like, and then the next time I went, I said to them, I said, Okay, you know, how are you with chanting? Does it get you comfortable with that? Blah, blah, and they're going on? Yes, chanting is great. That's what yoga is all about. So you say you can't make assumptions that just because you're teaching in a particular setting a gym, that these people are not Interested in the deeper teachings of yoga? I think people are, it's just the way that you present it.

Todd McLaughlin: 25:05

Yeah, good point. Do you come across people who when you mention Yoga, you know, judge you right off the bat and kind of clump you into a category that, you know, if you're talking about like, hey, it'd be really great if you come to my yoga class, and you know, they maybe shrug their shoulder, give you that feeling that like, you know, there's no way I would do yoga. Do you ever get that? Or do you feel like most people around you are like really kind of hip to it?

Barbara Courtille: 25:34

I think most people are oh, look, there are people that aren't. To be honest, I've never been into selling yoga. I've never been the person that says, oh, you should come to yoga. It's great. Like, no, it's like, people will come to it, you know, and they'll love it. Or they won't. And that's fine. I'm not into yoga is for everyone. And everyone must do yoga. Because you know, for some people running is their thing or whatever.

Todd McLaughlin: 26:00

Yeah, yeah. I noticed on a post you did on Instagram that you were talking about just trying to help people get comfortable with being on camera, you made mention about how when you initially started yoga practice there, we didn't Well, a we didn't have cell phones, of course back in the 80s. But there definitely was not. Well, I wasn't practicing in the 80s. So I can't speak what it was like to practice in the 80s. I remember the 80s I'm curious, what is your recollection of the 80s practicing yoga and I love the 80s 80s a really classic era. You know, when no one was taking their their camera out, like I'm the I'm picturing like Polaroid or obviously at that point, we were like getting our film taken out of the camera, taking it to the drugstore to get processed. And then you get that little package back in there. However many photos that were in like three of the 24 were like, decent. And yeah, so do you have any old pictures of you doing yoga from like print film from the 80s? So it just wasn't? It wasn't a pension? You've just

Barbara Courtille: 27:10

been? That would have been unheard of like, you didn't take cameras into a spiritual space. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 27:17

How do you reconcile that now?

Barbara Courtille: 27:20

Well, now things are completely different. Now. I don't even think twice about it. But it's just interesting how it's like when mobile phones first came out, like, I remember thinking it was really rude. Well, we all thought it was really rude if people looked at their phones while they were talking, or if they were in a shop and they'd look at their phones while they were waiting. That seemed to be a really rude thing to do. And now, no one thinks twice about it. Like, we adapt to things.

Todd McLaughlin: 27:46

That's a good point. What what where's the line for you now though, I was on an airplane just a couple of days ago. And the person in front of me had their phone on watching movie full blast, no headphones. And I just couldn't I was like, really just trying to like, just relax. Like, imagine this is your son? Well, if it was my son, I would have definitely been like, did you get to turn that off? You're going to turn that down? That's so rude to other people. Like no one wants to hear like put headphones in where it would what kind of like pushes your buttons these days with lack of awareness of other people and their their phones?

Barbara Courtille: 28:24

Yeah, no, I would have said something. to children. You've got to know when to act in practice. Good point. Yeah, no, that's not on.

Todd McLaughlin: 28:38

Not on. Okay. Cool. So now that would have got your attention as well. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Barbara Courtille: 28:44

The whole plane would have been on my side I'm sure.

Todd McLaughlin: 28:47

Well, I was looking around like, is anybody else like you know, is anyone else like feeling this right now? It was only me I guess. So no one else seemed to be bothered. I don't know. But yeah,

Barbara Courtille: 28:59

that that person thought that that was okay. Maybe he or she or they thought that they had their headphones on and didn't realize that's what I

Todd McLaughlin: 29:06

thought that's what I kept thinking like maybe they think they're had i Yes, it is interesting. Do do you have? Okay, so scenario, I'm a new yoga teacher and I need to market my yoga teaching, but I don't like using my cell phone. I don't feel comfortable on social media. I don't really want to take pictures that myself I wrote I saw you wrote a question to pose or not to pose that is the question. What what more were you implying by writing that?

Barbara Courtille: 29:46

Oh, I was just trying to get a discussion going because there are I work with some teachers who are very uncomfortable even now we've all the practice in front of a camera and you know, you don't become a teacher to be a model. I get that. So if I think if it's, I think there's two ways to look at it in one way it's a challenge just like a handstands a challenge. And you have to go past your ego and you go past your and there's different ways of looking at it. I try and say to people look at, if you show your face, then you're making connection. You know, it's, especially if you're online, it's very difficult to build a community online, if you're not willing to show your face. I'm not saying that it's impossible. But why would make things harder than they already are? Because it's already hard.

Todd McLaughlin: 30:38

Yeah, good point.

Barbara Courtille: 30:41

I think like anything, it's practice, because I know I wasn't comfortable the first time that I was not so much in pictures, but like, video, like talking like we are now like, once upon a time, that would have been like, really stressful. Yeah. Whereas now think twice about it. And the only reason is, because I've done it so many times. It's practice, practice, practice.

Todd McLaughlin: 31:02

Good point. I,

Barbara Courtille: 31:05

yeah, to challenge yourself sometimes, so that you can grow, basically,

Todd McLaughlin: 31:10

yeah, I'm trying to do that as well. I feel like being in front of the camera, in the past, for me was not comfortable. And I definitely did not want to do it. And now that I'm practicing it, I'm starting to have a little bit more fun with it. I recently read a really great book by man named steve stockman and called how to shoot video that doesn't suck. And I think like, even if you don't do video of yourself, this book would be interesting, because it's really gotten me to look at the perspective of when I watch a TV show or a movie, like where the camera is, is the camera moving? Or is it not? Does it zoom in? Doesn't it? How long are the shots? Like typically, it's only like three seconds, like, every shot is like, it's constantly moving around. Obviously, it's different for every film. And he had a quote in there that he said something I don't know if I would be able to get exactly right. But he said like in terms of building your authenticity, just basically rip your guts out and put them on the table for everybody to see. And that's difficult to do for me personally. How do you feel about keeping privacy, like your private life? And like, where do you find the line for being comfortable or open was sharing some of the deeper parts of your life in that realm?

Barbara Courtille: 32:36

Yeah, I don't feel I personally don't share a lot of private stuff or what I consider to be private. I guess that's that's a fine line, what's private and what's not private? I mean, all my posts, and blogs and writings are about yoga. Of course, yoga is my life. So that's, you know, it's personal in that sense, but I'm not talking about my great. Yeah, look, I think it's a generational thing, too. I mean, younger people are much more comfortable about talking about all of this stuff. Yeah, but what I call what I consider to be the oversharing. But that's just my perspective, if you're from that generation, it probably doesn't feel like oversharing because that's what they've grown up with. So I wouldn't be comfortable. And I don't particularly enjoy reading that kind of stuff myself. I sort of feel if you're a teacher, you know, it's not about you.

Todd McLaughlin: 33:35

That's a good point.

Barbara Courtille: 33:37

It's about you're there for you. It's like being a teacher is is service you're serving. So I'm a little bit personally I don't like to be Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee

Todd McLaughlin: 33:49

I agree.

Barbara Courtille: 33:50

It's relevant to the person that I'm teaching, unless that's going to inspire them in some way. Yeah, really. It's a focus on on your people. So for me, it's the yoga teachers, I want to focus on them not say, Hey, do what I do, because that's just me. And everyone's different.

Todd McLaughlin: 34:05

Yeah, good point. I hear you on that. That's a good point. What are some of the most common complaints that you hear from whether they're new yoga teachers or long term yoga teachers with the challenge today with earning a living as a yoga teacher?

Barbara Courtille: 34:28

I think the main challenge for every one is marketing. Marketing, Social Media. No one wants to do it. No one wants to sell stuff. Yep.

Todd McLaughlin: 34:40

Oh, yes. So what's what do I do? Your practice? Yeah, good answer.

Barbara Courtille: 34:50

There's no shortcut to practice.

Todd McLaughlin: 34:53

So just focus on yoga practice and the marketing side. Just know I'm sorry. I'm saying you go to practice the market does the marketing Gotcha. If your way

Barbara Courtille: 35:05

that I do it and I think the way that's effective for most yoga teachers is to approach your marketing, the same way you approach your practice. And the same way that you approach the challenging practices, not the things that are easy. You know, if arson is really easy for you, then what's difficult meditation perhaps for a lot of people, Pranayama or whatnot, whatever it might be, we all have challenges in our practices. So it's like that it's something that's difficult that you don't want to do. But you kind of know that you have to do it, like, you know, the tappers. It's the tablet. Yeah, it can't just not everything in life is easy. And I understand that no one wants to, I don't want to be marketing either. Like, I didn't have to, but you learn a lot. And you build confidence. And it's really important to have confidence as a teacher, because that's what's going to exude to your students. And if you have confidence, they're going to trust you. They're going to feel like they're in good hands. If you're not confident, then, you know,

Todd McLaughlin: 36:12

yeah, yep. You mentioned that you gain inspiration from listening to podcasts. I think this is a great exchange of information opportunity here. What other sources do you seek for inspiration when you're feeling not inspired?

Barbara Courtille: 36:32

Nature, go out in nature and get get perspective. You know, we're only here for a very short time, we're only a tiny speck. It's only one lifetime amongst many. So putting things in perspective, I think is really important, because we get so wrapped up in all this stuff. I do too. We all do. Because there's so much stuff to do as a yoga teacher, or the yoga teachers know this. The people that don't teach probably don't realize all this stuff we have. And it's getting more COVID hasn't helped.

Todd McLaughlin: 37:09

Good point. Yeah, we're juggling way more plates. I had a good yoga teacher friends say, Who would have thought when we started teaching yoga, we would also need to be IT specialists, marketing professionals, we'd have to learn how to use cameras and audio equipment, we'd have to navigate leases on businesses or not leases on businesses or, or brick and mortar versus the online platforms. It definitely seems like we're needing to multitask more.

Barbara Courtille: 37:42

Yeah, especially if you're running a studio. That's a big responsibility.

Todd McLaughlin: 37:48

It is. It's a big one, for sure. It requires every single day. Like we've been here 16 It'd be going 17 years now in April. So Wow. Yeah, it is. It's like it requires like it's a some degree putting the blinders on. And just like, I'm not given up, like, you know, sometimes it's an easy ride, but other times it's it's not easy.

Barbara Courtille: 38:17

Yeah, well, thank you for that long. That's really amazing.

Todd McLaughlin: 38:21

Thank you. I don't know if I'm being really stubborn now. Like, I'm not gonna like I will die before us to get shut down. Like, like, I'm I don't know if that's like being pigheaded or what but but yeah, I'm taking it I take it pretty seriously now. Not giving up? That's for sure. What thank you what, what? What other challenges do you hear from your students and or the people that you are helping to mentor?

Barbara Courtille: 38:50

Yes, I think burnout is a big one people doing as we were just saying, like, if you do all the things and you want everything yesterday and you're not happy with the results, because it takes a long time, as you know, less things don't happen. I think this might be generational as well. Like people expecting things to happen really quickly and expecting to be successful. Yeah. And all of that and comparing themselves to the yoga stars or whoever you know, I mean, it's it's silly. Yeah. So getting some perspective on how long it takes to build a business which is a long time as you know, you've been there 17 years.

Todd McLaughlin: 39:29

i Thank you i love I've really been enjoying reading your posts because I feel like you you do a really great job of keeping it simple. One thing I find that I get caught up on that I'll trip up on like just what you said like if I look at somebody has it seems like fame, like yoga fame, and it seems like they're doing everything right and like we don't really know the backstory behind how they got there. Their struggle And or the ease of it. And sometimes we, we look at them, and we say there's no way we could do I could do that, like, clearly they have something bigger and better. And I don't know, I feel like your coaching tips are very, they make me feel like I can do it. You know, it's just down to earth. How do you how do you? How are you tapping into that? What Where do you? Where does that come from?

Barbara Courtille: 40:27

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm a very down to earth person I hate I hate bullshit. And one of the things that I hate most on social media is all these coaches that tell you how much money they make, and how they make all these, and they go on about the multi figures. I mean, I don't even understand that talk. And I just think like, how is that that's just not motivating to someone like me, but obviously, it's probably motivating to other people. Maybe it's an American thing You tell me. But I hear that. And I just think, Oh, God go away. Like, I don't want to know. Yeah, because not only is it unrealistic, but it also doesn't make me feel great to think that someone's earning all this money. And here I am earning, you know, just a living wage. And it's like, oh, hang on, really. And you're telling everyone that they can do it, too. If you just follow my 10 steps, and, you know, join my thing, and then you took and it's just like, watch, like, really? What universe are you on? It's not my universe? That's

Todd McLaughlin: 41:29

a great point by right. Do you do feel like there's like formulas that that people are just copying the formula? Do you know what I mean? Like if I, I think that person is successful over there, what are they doing? Well, they're talk talking about how much money they're making, and that I can help you get there too, if you just follow my 10 steps. And that, obviously, is a formula that it looks like it's working. Do you ever, sometimes I'll sit down and think like, Okay, I don't want any formulas in my head. Like, what can I do that's just totally inspired in the moment of like, personal? Do you have epiphany moments where you'll get a flash and you'll get an idea for something to say or talk about or the direction you want to take? How does your creative process happen for you? And in the process of coming up with what you decide to focus on?

Barbara Courtille: 42:27

Yeah, that's a good question. I do have epiphanies, but I haven't had one for a while now.

Todd McLaughlin: 42:33

Are you ready for it? I'm ready for a new epiphany.

Barbara Courtille: 42:38

Thank you for putting that in my little beta seed into my head, because now I'm going to have one because I'm due for one, I'm way overdue. I'm a very quick like, I'm a painter as well. So I'm very creative. That's my whole, my whole being is about being in the flow. And when I'm not in the flow, and I'm not getting those ideas, I get very frustrated. Yeah. But I go to nature, always nature, always meditation, and slowing down. So that's my biggest challenge is to slow down because I'm very I've got a lot of pizza in me. Like my body is quite cap, I'm quite grounded, and quite heavy and solid. But inside, I'm very Peter, like fire fire ideas, ideas, ideas, and it's hard for me to slow down take the time. That's hard for me, because I'm quite passionate. But I know but I know myself, like I've been around a long time. That's what the meditations all about, you know, you get those rains, holding the reins, holding the sensors, and try and get some some focus on Drishti. So that you're not all over the place, which I can be very easily. Look, I think here, we're all little project here little project there. And I do you know, I paint and I write, I'm studying philosophy, I'm writing a book, so I tend to have a lot of on too many. Yeah. And then that gets the fire going. And then I've just gotta go, okay, slow down and just do one thing. So that's going to be my sankalpa for next year. So each year I'll have a new sankalpa next year is all going to be about slowing down and doing one thing at a time. And that's going to be torture.

Todd McLaughlin: 44:23

Can you define sankalpa? For our listeners in case there's someone who doesn't know?

Barbara Courtille: 44:30

Yes. sankalpa says that intention and it's an intention that to be effective needs to be in line with your dharma or your path or your your, your purpose, your greater purpose. And generally, that's something to do that serves others, not just yourself. So it's not wishing for a million dollars or anything like that.

Todd McLaughlin: 44:49

God is so good one good, good answer.

Barbara Courtille: 44:53

Yeah. So if you're a yoga teacher, generally that's going to be something of service to your community. And so when you set an intention you want to grow, you want to be aware of your own, your own behavior, your own tendencies and how you can, how you can maybe improve that or direct that probably is a better word rather than improved direct that in a way, that's really, like I was saying that drishti the focus on to what what it is that you're, you're here for?

Todd McLaughlin: 45:25

Yes. Nice. You said philosophy. What particular branch of philosophy Are you delving into currently?

Barbara Courtille: 45:35

So I'm delving into the Vedas and the Upanishads, and the Shiva Sutras and stuff that I actually don't know enough about, because like most yoga teachers, I was brought up on the on Patanjali, and the Bhagavad Gita and Hatha practice politica. I think those were the three tests. And to be honest, I didn't think that there was much else to, I didn't realize just how broad and how complex your bigger philosophy is. So I'm really enjoying digging a little deeper, and having a look like I do over here, having a look over there. And I'm trying to get some inspiration to write a book. And my book is going to be something very down to earth about how yoga teachers can use yoga philosophy in their classes, but in a way that's very accessible. That's not going to bore everyone. Yeah, yes. You know what I mean? I do. Yeah, so there's a lot of, there's a lot of ideas there, but I haven't quite, I'm still exploring, and that might take some time. But that's okay. I really enjoy

Todd McLaughlin: 46:51

it nice. Have you putting any words down in the computer slash paper yet, for the book, I'm still formulating the outline, or,

Barbara Courtille: 47:02

I haven't got an outline, because I'm not very good at outlines. But I will have to have an outline. At some point. At this time, I'm just writing little summaries, and I'm writing little things that have inspired me. And from that I'm writing little blogs, and then from the blogs, I actually don't really know where it's gonna go toward. I think this is one of those creative things that I'm gonna. I'm gonna see where it goes. But I do have I do have my drishti I just don't know how it's all gonna come together. Yes.

Todd McLaughlin: 47:33

What's inside that you have come across in the reading of either Vedas or apana? Shots? Is there been a thought or an idea that you pondered that you found useful, beneficial, enlightening?

Barbara Courtille: 47:49

Yeah, I was quite surprised that the Patanjali is actually quite different to all the other to all the other philosophies that came before him like he's his whole thing about property and parotia. And the separation and trying to elevate and away from, I didn't actually realize that that was actually fairly radical in terms of what came before that. Because it's more non dualism before he came along. And I didn't quite understand that, even though I'd heard a lot of talk about that I didn't quite grasp it. So that's been interesting. And the Upanishads have been really nice. Because I had no idea about those little each one of them has is, is an entire thing in its own. So I didn't realize that I thought that it was you had to read the whole thing. But you don't, you can just pick one little story and it has its own thing. So there's a lot in there about the Batman and the the nature of the soul and where it lives and what it does and how you harness it. And you know, it's actually quite practical, a lot of that stuff, surprisingly. So. Yes. We've the Vedas, you know, the Vedas. You sort of think, well, all that stuff. I mean, no one does that stuff. Now. I mean, who does all those rituals and those I mean, I'm not saying no one, of course, there are some people in the forest somewhere doing that, but it's, it's not really relevant. I don't see the relevance of all those. I mean, culturally, they're relevant obviously, when you go to India and when you go to Bali, all those rituals and all that that's what makes the place and that's what makes it amazing. But in terms of us as Westerners it's nice to have little rituals, you know, you have your your candles and all your elements and stuff. But to that degree that they had in the Vedas, it's just just seems not very practical to me.

Todd McLaughlin: 49:49

Yeah. Yeah, that's good observation. I hear Yeah. I remember someone had pointed out I took a philosophy course with Georg Feuerstein and And he had mapped out how, say for example, in the Vedas, there was a fire ritual where maybe there would be like a fire tender or somebody would be in charge of keeping the fire going. And like, anytime I go camping, and I try to keep my fire going, it's not as easy as it seems, because I'll fall asleep, or I'll just get tired and be like, Okay, let's put the fire out. So like, if it was my job to keep a fire going, and never let it go out like that would be a really challenging task. And, and I liked the idea of this story line have the potential of like, say, if lightning struck prior to our ability to make fire that if we were able to get fire, we'd want to keep that fire going. So that's, that's a really interesting idea. But the transition from the Vedas where there was an external fire, to the apana, shots started to make this changeover into keeping like an internal fire. And that's where the idea of top has started to generate. So then the concept of well from a yoga practice, if I can keep my fire going, internally, like not necessarily just from Ojai breathing, and heating up through Vinyasa or something, but maybe even just my motivation and inspirational fire going. That's just as difficult if not more to keeping a physical fire fire going. Once I heard that storyline, I thought, Oh, it's so fascinating, like, just heat and how we can apply heat on an external and an internal level.

Barbara Courtille: 51:36

Oh, that's beautiful. That's really nice. How you've put that I think you should write a book to it.

Todd McLaughlin: 51:41

Well, let's collaborate. Let's work together. Oh, yes. I need help. I need major help.

Barbara Courtille: 51:51

To collaborate. Collaboration is great. So that's one of the things that's also come out more recently, is that idea of collaboration with teachers, which I really like. Yeah, there's a lot more of that rather than the competition that we used to have, which really doesn't sit well with anyone in the in the yoga world.

Todd McLaughlin: 52:10

I agree. Barbara, one thing I remember, I got like, there was a point I have a group of yoga teacher friends that will get together on Zoom. And we'll just like, what are we? What did you come across today? Like, what, what happened in class today, and we'll just share stories and ideas just to keep ourselves motivated. And I, you know, within this group, there was this, like, let's stop posting pictures of ourselves doing poses, and I was like, Well, what the heck else am I gonna actually take a picture of to convey? And around that time I started doing this podcast, and I feel like now I can, like, I'll be able to put you on my Instagram. You don't I mean, like, in feature you and I'm having more fun featuring other people? I don't know Do do you find that too? I think in the collaboration elements nice. It's fun to or exciting to lift other people up. Instead of it always just be about me, me, me, me. Me. Look at me. Look at me look at my this. Look at my that, you know, it's just like after a while it gets so, so boring.

Barbara Courtille: 53:08

Oh, it's fantastic to lift other people up. I do that on my YouTube on my YouTube channel. So I always interview I try and find people that have something that they can teach that so it'll be different. You know, that might interest other yoga teachers, and it's great to prop people. I mean, isn't that why we're teachers? Because we want to help other people. I mean, it's just our nature, isn't it?

Todd McLaughlin: 53:29

Barbara? What is your YouTube channel? Your name?

Barbara Courtille: 53:33

Yeah, I think it's just Bob record till yoga.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:35

Cool. So on there? Are you doing like interviews like this? Or are you doing it with somebody in the room and conversing? Are you doing? Are you doing the more zoom style? Are you doing them in person with people or both?

Barbara Courtille: 53:47

Most of them have been on Zoom. I've done a few. Like if I've gone to see someone live, but usually I do them on Zoom. Because it's people from around the world. And it's usually I try and keep them like 20 minutes, half an hour. So that it's it's doable for my audience. And usually it's someone that's doing something a little bit different, or that has something to teach other teachers or yeah, maybe you can come on there.

Todd McLaughlin: 54:15

Well, that'd be great. I'd love to speak in of 20 minutes. We've been on for 52 minutes and and sometimes people will say to me, like Todd, you should probably do. Well, not every but I've had critique or feedback. Like, I just don't have enough time to listen for an hour. What I always find is like, I feel like we're just getting warmed up. Or I mean, we've been you've been doing a great job thus far. But like usually, like it takes an hour to get into some good nitty gritty conversation. So I hear ya, I hear you like the amount of time like this idea of like, even making like Tic TOCs and Instagram reels where it's like don't make them any longer than five or six seconds and it's like holy cow. How can I know? How can I tell the beginning a middle and an end in five seconds? But that was something that

Barbara Courtille: 55:07

I knew on Tik Tok.

Todd McLaughlin: 55:09

I am you know, because I have, I have a nine year old daughter and a and a 16 year old son so, I got on there before they did so I thought this is a one time Dad's going to be ahead of these guys with the curve. So I like I got tick tock going. Just because I know you know, I don't I don't let my daughter I have a tick tock account. Yeah, cuz like at nine I'm like, Ah, she came in the other day. I was like, Dad, can I get a Snapchat account? And I don't have Snapchat. So I was like, um, I'm like, Well, who she's like, well, this friends on it. This friends on this other friends on it. So I'm like, I text one of the friends mom and I said, Is it true? You know, is your daughter on Snapchat? And I was like, Oh, heck no, no way. I'm not letting my daughter and I'm like, okay, Priya. She's not on it. So that was not correct information. And then her other friend or mom was like, yeah, why? What's wrong? And I was like, No, No, nothing's wrong. I just want to get a feeling for what's going on like and so then I'm like, Well, let me just go on there and look and and the first the homepage came up, and I was like, oh, no, no, I just can't let my nine year old daughter get on the same because it was a lot of like, just booty and just look at my booty. Look at my booty. And I know she's gonna get to that I just, I just just want to keep her innocent as long as I can.

Barbara Courtille: 56:26

Yeah, good luck with that. Advice.

Todd McLaughlin: 56:35

Yeah, yeah. Good point. Good point. So you haven't resorted to the booty shot and the Instagram you're not you're not gonna go there. You're not gonna.

Barbara Courtille: 56:44

I'm not I'm not on Tik Tok because you know what? Instagram? Yeah. And then Facebook is more like, just personal. Yeah, I don't really like Facebook. Instagram is way more than in fact, I've cut down on my instagram at the beginning of COVID. I was on there every day. Because I was trying to build an audience. I had no audience. Like, I wasn't even using Instagram. I had an account, but I never used it because I had a life. You know? Once COVID came along, I had no life. Instagram became my life. And so I was posting every day and I was learning all of this stuff. Like I did all the courses and blah blah, was it? I mean, that's what I'm like, when I'm into something I'm into. Yeah. Like I just go for it. And that's what I did. I completely burnt out. So that's the other thing we fire that you've got to watch. Going back to the Vader's? Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 57:42

Yeah. Build it too big and stick your arm in there. And it hurts. Yeah. Yeah.

Barbara Courtille: 57:47

That's so I need to watch that. But what was I saying? Oh, yeah, Instagram. So I was posting every day. By the end of that year, I was completely wrecked because too much time on screen and just the Instagram thing. And then cut down I think the second year two or three times a week. So that was a bit more, you know, a bit less obsessive. And now I'm down to once a week.

Todd McLaughlin: 58:12

Nice. Nice. So maybe next year.

Barbara Courtille: 58:16

Maybe I'll do once a month. Oh

Todd McLaughlin: 58:25

I hear Yeah. I hear you slow the slow queen, the slow queen.

Barbara Courtille: 58:31

And then I see once all night and then once a month or you might turn the

Todd McLaughlin: 58:34

corner and God that's it. I'm doing twice a day. Twice. Oh.

Barbara Courtille: 58:40

Well, the one of my teachers last night I do improv and my improv teacher does a one second video each day. One second one is hurt her day one. Yeah, but it's still every day. Still.

Todd McLaughlin: 58:56

It's still a full on commitment. I hear ya

Barbara Courtille: 58:59

something every day, so I don't I'm gonna go there even though I love

Todd McLaughlin: 59:07

that's cool. Barbara. So I'm curious. Can you if we start to turn that corner toward closing our conversation together? Can you Did anything come up and or not come up that you'd like to speak on and or offer any advice about

Barbara Courtille: 59:32

now I just want to encourage all the teachers out there to just stick at it. Take your time. Don't get caught up in all the the BS that's out there about what you should be doing and how much you should be earning. Just take it step by step. Keep your day job. Build your community, build your confidence and just be committed you need to be committed. And if you're not committed then and maybe you just teach part time, just teach a few days here and there. And, and maybe, you know, maybe that'll last a few years and maybe you'll do something else. I mean, you know, I think what happens with yoga is people fall in love with it. And it's like falling in love. When you're in love with someone, you want to be with them all the time. You know, and it's, it's the lust, but the lust doesn't last. The last sometimes turns into love. And sometimes the lust just dies out. And that's fine. You know, that's fine. Don't hold on to something, if it's not meant to be enjoyed, enjoy what it is for when it is but you know, don't stress yourself out. Because Yoga is not about being stressed out and always feeling like you're lacking. You're wonderful. If you're a yoga teacher, you're wonderful. You're bringing beautiful things into the world. You're helping so many people. So you're awesome.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:00:56

Beautiful. That's perfect, Barbara. I love it. Thank you.

Barbara Courtille: 1:01:04

Thank you. It's been a pleasure to speak to you.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:01:07

I really appreciate it. Thanks for taking time out of your day. And you didn't have to get up too early for me on the other side of the world. But you are early so thank you for slotting the time back a little for me to suit my schedule. I really appreciate it. I hope that we can collaborate further in the future. Write a book, maybe a screenplay film a movie. Why not? Why not some acrylic, some canvas? Watercolor Painting.

Barbara Courtille: 1:01:37

Yeah, I'll do your portrait.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:01:41

That'd be amazing. All right. I'm down for that. That sounds cool. Thank you, Barbara. I look forward to it. All right, you too. By. Native yoga podcast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know. If there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com. And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time